kahloq

You are correct rrudytoo, I suppose I should have been a little more clear in meaning WWII European theatre. Remember though, I did mention the P-51 shot down over Japan.
My meaning was, that there is a distinct biasness regarding the program relative to Germany for the the period of WWII. I had also mentioned the Wildcats damaged and downed by Zeros, although I didnt list the title of the episode by name.

Anyway, it doesnt do any justice to those pilots that did lose their lives over in Europe to completely dismiss their ultimate sacrifice by hiding the fact many didnt make it back or were stuck in POW camps for the duration.

bigtim

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there's definatly a lopsided slant to the show,but when you have American WWII vets telling there side of the story your going to get that.
don't forget the show where the german pilots go into detail about ramming B-17's and knocking them out of the sky with there Me-109's,lest we not forget some of the great german pilots fought to the death early in the conflict, so your not going to find as many to tell there side of the story,consider when the U.S. really got going in the war the best of the best were already dead so the pilots with little expierence were going up against well trained,and armed advasaries eager to do some dammage.

kahloq

Absolutely true bigtim. Only a few german aces were left by mid 1944.....and even fewer even coming close to the likes of Erick Hartmann or Galland. Very few American or British pilots would engage Hartman when he was flying on the Eastern front. They knew the plane markings, so avoided him if possible. I probably would have, had I been in their shoes too! That is why Hartmann began having other squadron mates fly his plane and then ultimately his entire squadron ran his tulip nose design to throw off the opposition.
However, just as you said, by the closing months of the war, the skill of the majority of the german pilots was not up to task.

vertical grimmace

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Kahlog, Are you going to the field tommorow? I may bring the Fokker and little spitfire.

kahloq

I would like to, but the Ft Collins club has a field work day to install some new fabric covering on the runway extensions....so I gotta go there at least in the morning. Might get a chance to go to Drake after that, though, it wouldnt be until around 1pm

Whistling Death

Eric Hartman had 352 kills, all of which were on the eastern front, in 1404 missions. Of those 352 kills 345 were Russian planes. Thats leaves the 7 you talked about is guess. http://www.luftwaffe.cz/hartmann.html

Adolf Galland had 103 victories in 705 missions. He suposedly had 7 victories in a ME-262. http://www.luftwaffe.cz/gallanda.html

The best American ace you were talking about was Richard Bong who flew 200 missions and got 40 kills. At that pace (200 x 7=1400 and 40 x 7= 280), had he flown 1400 missions he would have had 280 kills or if he had flown 700 missions he would have had 140 kills. Is my math correct?

I guess if you are only going by kills they are staggering numbers but when you start figuring ratios their number were par for a good pilot but I am rediculously stupid.

bigtim

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those guys were living on the edge,alot of the top guys on both sides didn't make it through the war tommy mcGuire,Bongs direct compatition with 38 kills crashed,and many more were lost to combat,or accidents like george preddy pilot of "cripes a mightyIII"killed by friendly fire, 27kills, it makes a great story until it ends with he was shot down by our side chasing a FW-190 down,or he slammed into the jungle after his plane malfunctioned.
not much of a feel good story.
they were just a hard core bunch of guys,and incredibly competitive,they were hooked on the game of life and death, at least the show is giving people a small glimpse into what that era was like and what was going on.

deatonbt

Let me start off by saying that the allied pilots were amazing guys. They were the best of the best by the time they got to combat. Adolf Galland said that the caliber of American pilots was amaizingly high. With my bad eye sight I am disqualified right off the bat; let alone not washing out along the way.

But a lot of kills were not from dog fighting. It was because the other guy was not paying attention. Norman Fotier, American ace, said that most of his kills were from that situation. Erich Hartmann said that dog fights were a waste and it was best to fly close to the enemy, fire and get away. It must also be considered that the mission of the German pilot at the end of the war was to shoot down bombers. It was a great way to not pay as much attention to other aircraft.

The show only has the romantic part that people expect and want to see; dog fighting. It is why I watch the show. But the show gives the wrong impression of aerial combat and history.

I have to add that I really like the show and put it on whenever there is a chance. It is much to the grief of my wife who says things like how many airplanes flying or bridges being built can you watch on TV?

vertical grimmace

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I think that the reason many of the German pilots had so many high scores is directly related to why they ran out of pilots. It also would explain the quality of pilot as the war went on. With the Americans, we would rotate pilots out to train the new ones. Germany did not do this so not only are they not surviving but their experience could not be passed on.
This I feel is directly related to the fanatic leadership. The reason why Germany lost in the first place. Poor decisions tactically being made in every facet of the war, not just the Luftwaffe.

kahloq

Unable to relocate the link that listed 7 P-51 kills over Romania. I thought I had it saved on the wife's computer, but cant find it. I'll keep looking, but it doesnt much matter. Also, no one was using just kill numbers to equate skill to anything. I listed two pilots, thats all. Some people just like to assume things and take offence at every possible statement...guess its just their personality.

I guess you like striving for extremes BBwoen. No one called you ridicuosly stupid. I did say your comment about American pilots making many German pilots look like bafoons was ridiculously stupid, but if you want to call yourself stupid, thats up to you.
Both sides had experienced pilots and if a vet came across a newb, then the newb is going to look like a bafoon.....no matter which side they were from. Period. Some only want to point out things to bolster their limited point of view without acknowledging the reality of war.