t_burley

My Feedback: (59)

Ok I have been thru all these Latex threads.
As some or most of you know, my Taylor Spit is now done
painted and had a maiden flight on her.

She was painted with Sherwin Williams blue. The stripes
are Krylon semi flat, and white.

I used Minwax poly, oil based clear.

Here is my first screw up: I shot the top of my wing with the water based clear, before I realized I had the wrong clear. So I got some of the oil based and cleared over that, than the whole plane, not thinking anything about it.

Well, the clear (oil based) is not adhereing now looks like my plane got a bad sunburn and is peeling! The oil based clear is now separating from the water based? I didnt think it would or should have? anyone else have this happen to them?

Now the oil based clear that I shot on the rest of the plane, is fine.....Except where it is painted over the Krylon stripes It is peeling off there as well?

D&**@m! I was going to fly it again this weekend!? I took the clear off with 2" wide masking tape, and am now ready to scuff sand it and re-clear, but now am confused what clear I should really use now?

I have Latex paint and Krylon enamel, any suggestions?

confused as hell in Bakersfield?

Todd

pittsdriver

My Feedback: (7)

Todd, I don't know exactly what you have going there. I have only used laquer base polyurethane and not oil base like the Minwax. Is it afecting the paint underneath at all or just peeling off? You might try the laquer base ploy but try it on a sample first. If you are painting with latex or water base acrylics I would stick to that only and not use any Krylon or Rustolium type paints with it. Butyrate dope is a good clearcoat and just the right sheen for a Spit. BTW thanks again for the Taylor plan it really helped when designing my ailerons. Don

t_burley

My Feedback: (59)

thanks Don, the paint itself is fine, and the water based clear is fine where I sprayed it, its just the oild based clear over that, that is not good, as well as over the Krylon.

I screwed up mixing paint types now I gotta figure out what is the best way to re-clear it?

I've never used Butyrate dope, does it spray on, brush on, where do you get it?

Your welcome for the plans, glad they worked out for you

Todd

BobH

My Feedback: (2)

burl, I think your best bet is to use water based clear over what you now have. Since its water base there is less likely that a reaction between imcompatible paints will happen. Dope is ok but if you already have water base clear.. thats what I would recommend. I think what happened is the the oil base clear you put on was not compatible and there was a reaction between the two. Mixing paint types is a sometimes a problem!! lol.. and the order that you put them on makes a difference as well. Some finishes are ok UNDER or OVER other Finishes... but not always BOTH.. hope this helps BobH.

pittsdriver

My Feedback: (7)

Burl, Butyrate sprays on great. It is more like an enamel so it should be fine over the water base poly but make a test first if going that route. Sig makes it in quarts and that should be plenty for you airplane. Make sure you get butyrate thinner to go along with it. You can also get it at Aircraft Spruce or at a local aircraft supply if you have one. My Fokker D-7 is done in latex and butyrate and no problems with 15% nitro. Don

Tmoth4

My Feedback: (1)

burl,
Sorry to hear about your problems. I had the same problem with oil-based clear over silver rustoleum but I've used it on several planes over latex with no problems. Could be that the latex was not fully cured. I noticed with some of the latexes that they take a week or more to fully cure even though they feel dry. You have to check the instructions on the can. Also you could scuff the surface lightly with 600 or finer paper before applying the clear.
Jim

pittsdriver

My Feedback: (7)

That's why I like interior flat latex. It's not as rubbery and dries a lot quicker than satin finish and exterior. I have cleared interior the next day after painting with no problems. Interior flat is a lot lighter than the others also. I'm going to try Clark Industries water base acrylic on my Spitfire. I have used water base acrylics lately and they look very promising. The local Micheals craft store has a wall with hundreds of colors and they are very inexpensive. My friend did his Proctor Neiuport 28 with them and it turned out great. Don

t_burley

My Feedback: (59)

Jim, Bob & Don (hmm sounds like a sitcom )

anyways thanks for ALL the input so far. I do believe
I am dealing with a reaction to the different types of paints
and the mixing of the clears?

I am looking at all and any options to fix this, and looking
into your input here so far.

thanks much

Todd

Katchmarek

My Feedback: (29)

Burl, Why did you want to clearcoat in the first place? I've always tried to stick with the same media whenever possible...either all water based, or all lacquer. These days, I use latex exclusively to paint my warbirds. But then, 90% of my models are of Luftwaffe subjects, so I haven't had to worry a lot about bare metal surfaces too often. Also, I haven't used a clearcoat since I started using latex. I have on occasion mixed media, but I always...always make a test piece before ever applying anything that I'm not certain about to my aircraft. I have used with good results Rustoleum Metallic's both over and under latex without any problem...but then again, I didn't have the added worry of clearcoat compatability. What engine are you running in the Spit? Aside from media compatability, you will also have to take into consideration fuel compatability. If I were you, I'd slow down, make a couple of test bases, and try your options. The flying season is still young...don't be in such a hurry.
In the not too distant future, I will be using clearcoat with latex. I will be going all out on my PCM Bf-109....detailing, weathering and the like. As for weathering with latex. as pointed out in one of the other related threads, you can't use the Dave Platt method of spraying and wiping with MEK. With the latex, I prefer using pastels...you can't beat the subtle effects obtainable...and if you mess up or don't like how it looks, just clean them off with a damp towel. With this method, a clearcoat is an absolute necessity, and must be applied in very light coats so as not to effect the pastels. I will most likely be using Nelsons to clearcoat. I will test other alternatives, and will keep a record for reference. As for you current problem, if it as I asssume, you're going to have a difficult time removing the existing clear. The tape removal is a good idea, but even if it appears to get up all of the unwanted clear, there is most likely going to be an oil residue that is going to be stubborn, and difficult to detect. If you don't remove ALL of this residue, you're going to have more problems. Quite possibly the easiest solution is to get out the sandpaper, the only sure way to remove all of the oil...and as much as I hate to say this, repaint. I have heard of situations, where folks use combinations that many others have found to be compatable and have had problems. Why? It is very important to let any paint cure before mixing other media. If the paint isn't cured, results can vary significantly depending upon the stage the curing process is at. Also, how much the paint is thinned and with what can have an effect. That is probably the main reason that I try NOT to mix media if at all avoidable. I am by now means an expert, I just know what has worked for me. I refer to these forums often for advice...but I always do tests before applying anything to an aircraft that I am not certain of.
Happy flying,
Rob Bailey / Pickupsticks

t_burley

My Feedback: (59)

thanks Rob for all the input.
I didnt think about mixing the different media's if you will.
I just goofed!
I didnt realize, or better yet think I would have a compatability problem?
I am clear coating the plane as I am using a Moki 1.8 for power.

I did however do some test strips if you will with the latex, latex with water based clear, latex with oil based clear as far as fuel problems. So I covered that.

I just didnt think I was going to have problems with the clear over the Krylon, and the compatability problem with the oil over water based clear?

You are right about the flying season being young, but us Californian's get to fly year round! So you guys are late

I am stepping back and re-thinking my plan of attack here. Looking at all the options givin me, and slowing down to get it right. As this is my first scale plane, I want it/the paint to last. I jumped on the latex band waggon, after doing much research here about it, but missed/goofed on a couple compatability issues.

They will work out, and it helps with this forum and the great group of guys you all are in giving your opinions and recomendations.

thanks

Todd

BobH

My Feedback: (2)

burl, you can always sand off ( I know you would hate doing that) the finish thats a problem and repaint.. as a last resort.. Althougth I haven't tried Nelson's clear I would give it some real considerations. From what I have read it works great as a fuel proofer for latex. His products are water based also so there is no compatibility problems. You can do the satin finish with a mix of his gloss and flat.. and get the perfect job.. FYI spits were not painted with flats.. and even when they weathered they still show some gloss to their finishes. If you look at photos of WWII Spits you will see that very plain... BTW.. Is the Glass Fuse you used from Bob Holman?.. Is that his kit of the Taylor spit??. Thanks BobH.

t_burley

My Feedback: (59)

the kit is a Taylor plan, cut from Bob Holman
the fuse is glass, molded by Vic here on RCU
good stuff!

I am looking into the Nelson clear as well

thanks Bob

Todd

BobH

My Feedback: (2)

Thank you too burl, I'll have to check with Vic and see if he has any more fuses left.. or is planning on making more.. Your satisified with everything??. Just wondering BobH.

k_sonn

My Feedback: (32)

Todd:
Sorry to hear about the paint situtaion and I feel your pain. You might try the Nelson Hobby clear. I have had great results with it over latex and testors paints. Call Jerry at Nelson Hobby and he would be able to tell you if the clear he has will work over the paints you are using.

BobH:
I have checked with Vic on the fuses and he does not sell them anymore. They are only available through Bob Holman.

BobH

My Feedback: (2)

Kirk, ah.. that would mean that only the glass accessories etc. are available from Holman and not the entire fuse... thanks for the info.. BobH.

Fighterpilot

My Feedback: (2)

I've been using, with a lot of success, a PPG product which is designed to go over their basecoat. It is OMNI clearcoat, a two part urathane clearcoat. When mixed properly, it goes over most anything without compatability problems (I'd test first) it is crystal clear and does not yellow, and it dries rapidly. It is fuel proof for both gasoline and glow fuel. I've used it on both. It will give you an elbow deep shine or if you desire, you can add a flattening agent and adjust to your desired sheen. I've added enough flattener to give my airplanes a satin finish, which keeps them easy to clean. Remember, the more flat the surface, the harder it's going to be to clean.

Good luck,
Bill

AirRayInc

My Feedback: (7)

Burl,
paint goofs suck big time, and I have a few to account from over the years... the worse is having to do some major touch up, or complete repaint of a completely painted airplane, that is still relatively fresh from the paint booth.
Nelsons clear over the Latex is a sure bet. I did that with a Yellow Spit I painted for a customer, worked out fine.

Best of luck,
Ray

fw190

My Feedback: (37)

Been there done that. Had to repaint my P47, just a few days after recieving its first paintjob. Todd, I feel for you.....

A friend turned me to Rustolium ( in the can, not the spray) and do not even use clear coat even with glow power. It seems to work, even better than paints from hobby shops labeled 'fuelproof'.

Sorry for the missunderstanding on the fuse. I do not have any fuse at the moment and I only make them whenever I can. I just have sooooooooooooo many things going on, plus my day job is getting in the way (but I cannot afford to do without) ... I have an agreement with Bob Holman and I can sell the fuse and parts that I make. It will take about 4-6 weeks for me to make the glass parts. Here is the link http://www.vicrc.com/glassparts.htm

Cheers!

Vic

BobH

My Feedback: (2)

Vic, if you ever get more made... pleas let me know ok? thanks.. BobH

t_burley

My Feedback: (59)

Thanks for all the inputs here, Ray, Bill, Bob, K_sonn, Vic, et all

I ended going back to my ole trusty Duplicolor clear!
It works great with the paint I have, I did a few tests with it prior to shooting the wing. It is a little more glossy than I like, but I am satisfied with it. Will look into maybe the Rustoleum that Vic used next time as well? Also probably Nelson clear.

Ray, yep paint goofs suck! But I think I have it figured out for now, and hope to see you and Vic at Castle.

Todd

Fighterpilot

My Feedback: (2)

The duplicolor clear is not fuel proof. Over time it will become gummy and make a mess of your work. We used it on a PICA Cesna a few years back and the clear ended up getting sticky when using 10% glow fuel. I don't have any experience with it on gasoline airplanes.

t_burley

My Feedback: (59)

well see what happens. I have used the Duplicolor on my FW190
and I have had no problems. I have 75 flights on it using 10-15% nitro depending on which engine I had in it.
On the bottom of the fuse when I had the 4 stroke in it, I had to remove the fuel after each flight as I normally would. It removed some of the clear there, but no other ill effects I have seen with using it

Todd

Capt. Crackup

My Feedback: (1)

Pickupsticks,,,,,,I am new to the latex paint on gasoline powered models...I have to admit that I am impressed with it...Up untill now I have use Monokote. What do you recommend for a fabric covered warbird, Interior or exterior latex? Thanks for yor time.

F4u5

My Feedback: (81)

Always use exterior latex...will hold up much better over time

Katchmarek

My Feedback: (29)

Yup, F4u5's got it right...I always use exterior latex. And even when it it fades from the sun, it has a great realistic look...I think the latex appearance improves with time actually.
Good Luck,
Rob Bailey / Pickupsticks

If you like giant scale warbirds check out my website at: www.warbirdbuilder.com