akpilot

Just thought people would like to see this.

Some may remember I posted a question about Robart 615s and if they've done anything to strengthen or fix them. I refered them to RCUniverse if there were any doubts to the problem. They finally responded to my third request, with the following answer:

"We have sold thousands of sets of the 615's since we came out with them and
have had very few complaints. We have found that the most common reason
for gear failure is due to not following the proper installation
instructions included with the retracts.
Sincerely
Gary Ernst
Robart Mfg."

I guess my biggest frustration is that in this day and age, business honestly know how to provide better customer service.

IFR

My Feedback: (1)

It might pay them to give themselves a colan exam while they have their heads up their a#@.

toucano

I have emailed them twice with questions about their retracts; the last time it took them a few days shy of a month to reply.

I am not impressed.

dionysusbacchus

My Feedback: (25)

There are a few problems with basing a decision about a product on what you read in these forums.

1. You only hear the complainers, for the most part satisfied customers like me don't say anything.

2. You have no way of knowing the skill level or flying ability of the people in these forums. I know many that can't follow directions and I am amazed at what they can screw up. Some may consider pancaking a plane in from 5' a good landing, so yea, they are going to have a problem with gear holding up!

I helped a guy with his Top Flite P-51 one time. I told him how to beef up the gear mounts because the kit is lacking in this area. His "landing" pushed the gear up through the top of the wing, he showed me the damage as if it was my advice that caused the extra damage and not his landing! So I can understand what Robart must have to put up with.

The 615's are excellent gear, they were a dream come true for me. No external links, so now I can mount doors! They have to be carefully set up, installed and maintained. This is not a flaw, they are complicated gear. The most important thing of all is how you mount them. They MUST be mounted to the beams first, then the whole thing must be glued in the wing, retract and all. The beams can not be uneven. You must learn how to land consistently, this is possible. Many modelers have tunnel vision when they fly and don't even see the ground as it comes up. I don't recommend the Robostruts for those that can't land consistently. For those flyer's I recommend wire gear with at least 3 or 4 coils, so when you "land" they can fold all the way back. This will save your retracts, the wheels may punch a hole in the back of the wing but balsa is cheaper to fix than buying retract parts.

Satisfied customer!

Luke

These are my first set of 615's, purchased in 1992, radio went dead in my last Royal Corsair and it went in. Now they are going in my new one! This is also the first step in mounting them properly.

lnorris

My Feedback: (1)

I agree with dionysusbacchus. I've got a set on my Direct Connection P-40 and they are holding up well. The only problems I had where;

1. The first set I got had some machining problems that caused the cylinder to stick. Robart fixed them VERY quickly and they work much better now.
2. The directions in my kit said nothing about mounting to the beams first. Took forever to get everything to where it wasn't binding.
3. Bent the arms once. We have a short field and I was going to hit to fence so I did a hard turn. My fault. Just took them apart and bent them back. No problems since.
4. Oh, and locktight your actuator mounting screw...

I hit a hole on my last landing (grass field) and popped loose one of the ribs the gear is attached to but I just need to glue that back and while I'm at it, I'm going to robostrut them.

They are good retracts. Install them correctly and learn how to land softly and they'll work just fine.

lnorris

My Feedback: (1)

Also, if I remember right, these are for 7-12lb planes. I see a lot of people installing these on 11-13 lb planes and then complaining that they "just don't hold up"...

akpilot

Keep in mind that "customer value" for any product is personal to the individual - based on a number of factors. From this forum alone, a quick search has shown that there are many people who are dissatisfied with this set of gear. Few, if any, responded with affirmation of a good product - without modifying the installation. As a minimum, I would expect Robart to offer recommendations to strengthen their installation.

Customer service is not a physical product, but based on how well a company responds/reacts to a concern or inquiry. In my experience with Robart during the last month, it took a "third request" on e-mail for them to respond; they do not provide a toll-free number. In my opinion this is unsatisfactory. E-mail is another extension of information dissemination. If I was to call, and in this case have to pay for a phone call, I wouldn't expect lengthy delays. A similar analogy can be drawn to e-mail. They should be addressed within 24 hours, or a customer should be given notice that they have received your e-mail and will responded within a certain timeframe.

Unfortunately, in this case of TF Corsairs, Robart holds a strong monopoly. The benefit of competition is lower prices and improved service. If there were other viable companies who'd offer a similar, reliable, product I'd have choice and would simply take my money elsewhere. Robart should at least modify their installation instructions to offer the improvements some people have suggested - it would take them less than one hour to type these up ane enclosed them in future productions.

In this case my options are limited to either go with fixed gear, modifying the installation (beyond Robarts suggestions), or go to the other manufactuer who produces even less quality.

Just my two cents . . .

lnorris

My Feedback: (1)

What problem are you having with the retracts?

BillHarris

See: http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...ghlight=robart
for the prior discussions.

As far as I understand, there are some long-standing durability issues with these retracts on the TF Gold Corsair. Evidently he thought that by bugging Robart these problems would go away.

My take is that if there are problems with a brand of accessory, don't use it and let the market forces do what they will..

akpilot

I'm not having a problem, I'm just hoping to nip things in the bud before I finish my TF Corsair. I just hate to finish it, only to have the gear twist or collapse on landing.

Maybe it's too simplistic, as most people are having to modify/reinforce these retracts, but I thought Robart might have addressed the issue internally.

To be honest, I wish there was somewhere else to walk but, the only other competitor has problems as well.

I hate monopolies . . .

ramcfarland

My Feedback: (44)

Interesting........Mount the retracts (first) to the beams AND then install Assembly in wing to respective "reinforced" wing ribs-------- sounds very logical, but as I recollect most plans show retract installations with the mounts installed and of course epoxied in place and then as if by second thought you are directed to bolt or screw the retracts securely to their respective mounts. So if the retract mounts are not "perfectly" flush with the retract bodies the units can and possibly will be twisted and or warped causing: binding and thus potential failure of the gear. So........ let us all debate this further,that is the mounting of any retracts with out FIRST ensuring the retracts mount flush when screwed or bolted to their respective retract mounts.

Fast Richard

Ron S

My Feedback: (2)

Actually, I emailed Robart on another subject regarding custom gear, and I received a very prompt response from Gary. I also called and talked to Eric, and he was also helpful, but very busy... I'd give them a chance.

If it is a matter of putting undersize gear on a model, you will continually have problems, and phone calls / emails won't help. Good luck.

pittsdriver

My Feedback: (7)

Always mount the gear to the beams before epoxying the beams in. I think most retract problems stem from improper mounting. I have had very few problems over the years and have had Robar, Spring Air, Rhom Air and several sets of mechanical and have had very few problems with any of them. Carefull setup will take care of 99% of problems. Don

lnorris

My Feedback: (1)

*deleted*

Edwin

My Feedback: (2)

I got a msg from Andrew at KMP. He told me their corsair retracts would be available around mid summer. Thinking about giving them a try. I have the robarts and am not real impressed with them. I fly off grass. The KMP would probably only be suitable in a new build. Dont know if it would be worth it to modify an existing robart setup. They are supposed to work like spring-air. I think the price was going to be around $250 or so, dont have access to the msg at the moment.
Edwin

CorsairJock

My Feedback: (90)

I am among those who have encountered problems with the 615s. My Corsairs weigh under 9 lbs, putting them in the middle of the recommended range. I have RoboStruts installed. The problem is that RoboStruts do not allow for rearward deflection as a wire strut would. There is great rearward force applied to the gear upon contact with the ground. What happens is this force is transmitted to the "links", which then buckle when the force becomes to great.
I do not consider myself the best flyer in my local club, but I do work on my landings, and consider them to be well above average. But the 615 "links" are not very forgiving, and even a slightly bad landing results in the links becoming bent.
I am among those who have complained to Robart, both by e-mail and in person at the Toledo shows. I personally know others who have encountered the same problems, and have also complained to Robart. I would be willing to bet that the best selling spare/ replacement parts that they sell, for ALL retracts, is these links. I've purchased quite a few, I and know others have also.
To those of you who have NOT encountered these problems, good for you and maybe you are a better pilot than me. I still maintain that they could improve these links, by making them from stronger steel. And I agree with those who say Robart needs to remove their head from.....

grahamd1

My Feedback: (1)

They look like this (I got my 1.20 Corair the otherday)

Edwin

My Feedback: (2)

Got 2 spare sets of levers right now. Currently on my second set. As far as I know, all the other TF 60 sized corsairs (not really that many) have been replacing levers. These guys arent young whipper snappers new to warbirds.

Grahamd1,
Will be real interested in hearing a report from you.
Edwin

w0mbat

My Feedback: (1)

In my opinion, the Robart 615 need some improvement. Century Jet makes a much better rotating retract. They are a little more expensive, but they hold up better on grass fields and less than perfect landings.

IFR

My Feedback: (1)

Well I have taken everyones advise and removed the retract mounting rails from my TF Corsair, built a one piece box out of 1/4" ply, and remounted the retracts. I had to put a grove at the back end of the box so the oleo could go deep enough into the wing to allow the wheel to fully retract. I did not make the grove until all the epoxy cured overnight making sure the new mounting box would be perfectly flat and no binds could develop. Luckily the groves did not go all the way through the ply so I have an extremely strong retract mount. It immediately cured the rotation problems. I cycled the retracts 6 times on a single air cylinder charge and they cycled perfectly each time. I still have some side to side movement in the wheel/oleo that is inherent to the slop in the retract rotating claw mechanism. I hope this does not create a twisting force that will collapse the hinge mechanism on landing. As soon as the lousy weather clears I will find out if the hinge issue has been cured as well. Wish me luck.

BigProp

My Feedback: (32)

Guys, PLEASE check this post out concerning the topic at hand.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...108&forumid=34]

IFR

My Feedback: (1)

BigProp
Your timing is impeccable. Came back from the field yesterday with my wounded Corsair in tow. A friend and myself had just spent hours making new retract mounting boxes out of 1/4 inch plywood to insure there was no binding, did cure the retract motion issue. Also made new struts insuring perfect flats for the retract claw gear and oleo set screws in an attempt to take out all the side to side movement of the oleos inherent to the design/execution of the retracts. Got one good landing but the second did her in, hinge on right wheel collapsed. Mind you these were not bad landings just any side load created at the wheel is transmitted right to those flimsy hinges. I ordered a set of strut wires with pig tail loops from Robarts last week which were planned to be a last ditch effort if all my friend's and my work on the oleo set up went for not. Figured to leave the oleos off and see if the coil spring in the strut absorbed any side loading enough to protect the hinge. Haven't seen the struts yet, the guy at Robarts almost sounded offended that I would have an issue with their retracts. I decided this would be the last effort to salvage the plane. However, if Sierra has a cure I will be willing to sign up, but first I have a couple of questions. Will the design be a retro fit for the Robarts or will it be necessary to modify the existing wing or build a new one? Do the retracts come with the air system or is that extra? Can they use the Robart air system? If a new air system is required will it fit in the Robart space? Really don't want to build a new TF kit, sort of moved on from their semi-scale planes.

CorsairJock

My Feedback: (90)

Big Prop, sounds very interesting, but I too would like to know more before I plunk down the money. A rough drawing would be nice, as well as knowing how much a set would weigh, will they drop into mounts set up for Robarts, and any other details. As mentioned in these posts, there is already at least one other alternative (other than Robart and CJ), from GSP? Also, will the oleos be the same as Robart (I have NO issues with the RoboStruts, I love 'em)? They look great, work well (when you use enough set screws) and I think they are lighter than the CJs

Rocketman612

My Feedback: (85)

BigProp,
I left some of the same questions on your thread. Lets try to consolidate the info so it's user frendly please Thanks, Pete