More Weathered Warbirds ME109E project
05-13-2003, 01:09 AM
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More Weathered Warbirds ME109E project
Seeing as how there seems to be a lot of interest in weathering,("are we good enough" in the scale forum, and "weathered warbirds" here) and I am getting ready to start the paint on my 109, I was wondering if there was any interest in a follow along weathering thread. I know a lot of guys like the showroom finish, but I am gonna paint a down and dirty, used, mud slingin, gun toting, paint chipped, oil leaking, greasy, slimy, filthy mess.
I am gonna try and incorporate techniques used in small plastic scale models on a larger scale. The 109 is a 40 size plane and all the panel lines, rivets, scoops and hatches have been done already, so the thread will start right at the painting.
The first set of pictures is the preshading of all the panel lines, scoops, control surfaces, and hatches that I want to accentuate.
Also as a side note, it is all getting done with latex and an airbrush.
Thats the first part. I ill be spraying areas with a silver base tomorrow. The latex over the silver will be washed, scratched, masked, and worn to simulate chipped and worn paint so stay tuned.
Warren
I am gonna try and incorporate techniques used in small plastic scale models on a larger scale. The 109 is a 40 size plane and all the panel lines, rivets, scoops and hatches have been done already, so the thread will start right at the painting.
The first set of pictures is the preshading of all the panel lines, scoops, control surfaces, and hatches that I want to accentuate.
Also as a side note, it is all getting done with latex and an airbrush.
Thats the first part. I ill be spraying areas with a silver base tomorrow. The latex over the silver will be washed, scratched, masked, and worn to simulate chipped and worn paint so stay tuned.
Warren
05-13-2003, 01:51 AM
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WarbirdFanatic, Great idea! I have one question though...on this 40 size 109 (my favorite airplane of all time by the way), I take it that there are no molded in panel lines or rivet detail, correct? Assuming there are no molded in lines, how are you going to maintain the integrity of panel lines, etc. when you start to apply color? I've used this technique on plastics, where the molded details, panel lines, rivets etc. hold the dark (black/brown/Gray/etc.) so that when you apply color in light coats in a very distinct and controlled manner those lines with the welled up dark shade manage to maintain that essence if you will.
I've never tried this on an RC bird due to the fact that most don't have molded in panel lines etc. I'll be following your thread closely, as I have a Mackay FW-190 waiting in the wings that has heaps of molded detail.
Happy weathering,
Rob Bailey / Pickupsticks
I've never tried this on an RC bird due to the fact that most don't have molded in panel lines etc. I'll be following your thread closely, as I have a Mackay FW-190 waiting in the wings that has heaps of molded detail.
Happy weathering,
Rob Bailey / Pickupsticks
05-13-2003, 02:10 AM
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Panel Lines
The panel lines are easily applied w/a 3/32 or whatever scale width of line tape you wish to use... After sclaing the lines down to the proper locations of course....THen after you lay all the tape down apply primer over those areas 2-3 lt coats..Then remove and viola panel line details...YOu can use the silver airduct tape to cutout panel shapes and hatches and apply these over primed surfaces...once you paint then scuff the edges up you will have a weathered panel.. You can also make "hinges" by using a very small diameter music wire placed inside an aluminum tube..then carefully using an X-acto blade make several sections of aluminum tubing 1/8" to 1/4" in length over the music wire and space 2/32" then apply thin CA to "lock the pieces to the music wire...Now using a sunding bar sand a "flat spot" on one side of your "hinge" and that will be flush against your planes surface...Place it close to a "silver/chrome a/c duct tape " fake panel and wow what detail... Just my .02 and a half cents worth 
05-13-2003, 02:14 AM
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Rivets and dzus fasteners
Use a soldering gun w a brass tube inserted in its tip to "burn " rivets into the primer before painting...Sharpen the brass tube w a hobby blade..Simulate dzus fasteners the same way just add a cross piece of brass to give it the look... Oh and an even easier way is to use "Tulip brand" paint found at most major HOBBY LoBBY's and Michaels craft stores...It is used for T-shirts and it comes in handy little bottles that are easy to hold in your hand..the tip is so small a perfect size "rivet" is produced with a squeeze of the tube.. YOu can buy it in any color and apply it before or after painting but before you clear coat.... That is my other 97.5 cents worth....
05-13-2003, 02:55 AM
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Rob,
All the panel lines were laid out with 1/64th chart pak tape, primered and peeled off. That gave me the "molded" panel lines. All the blisters and scoops were made from eith hand sanded balsa and the mg blisters under the wings are made from cut out soda bottles. I didnt do every rivet, but did some of the more prominent ones and they are all done with the glue in the needle trick. The wing root support is balsa with rivets punched into it and sealed. The hatches and acces ports are made from HVAC chrome tape and as Nemesis has said, I will be scratching the edges to reveal the chrome as a used panel has.
Here is a pic before the preshading which shows a few rivets, the panel lines, and you can see one of the access hatches at the rear strut, as well as the wing root support.
Warren
All the panel lines were laid out with 1/64th chart pak tape, primered and peeled off. That gave me the "molded" panel lines. All the blisters and scoops were made from eith hand sanded balsa and the mg blisters under the wings are made from cut out soda bottles. I didnt do every rivet, but did some of the more prominent ones and they are all done with the glue in the needle trick. The wing root support is balsa with rivets punched into it and sealed. The hatches and acces ports are made from HVAC chrome tape and as Nemesis has said, I will be scratching the edges to reveal the chrome as a used panel has.
Here is a pic before the preshading which shows a few rivets, the panel lines, and you can see one of the access hatches at the rear strut, as well as the wing root support.
Warren
05-13-2003, 11:25 AM
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More Weathered Warbirds ME109E project
Warren,
Good post! I too like warbirds weathered! I was wondering if you could elaborate a tad on the tape used for access hatches and raised panels? How did you prep the surface? How did you cut curves, etc into it?
The reason I ask is that I did a model and used coverite presto self adhesive sheet cut and stuck onto the model once, then painted over them. When finished it looked great, but after a day in the sun they bubbled and lifted.
Thanks!
Good post! I too like warbirds weathered! I was wondering if you could elaborate a tad on the tape used for access hatches and raised panels? How did you prep the surface? How did you cut curves, etc into it?
The reason I ask is that I did a model and used coverite presto self adhesive sheet cut and stuck onto the model once, then painted over them. When finished it looked great, but after a day in the sun they bubbled and lifted.
Thanks!
05-13-2003, 11:37 AM
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More Weathered Warbirds ME109E project
Sean, Go down to the hardware store and get a roll of aluminium tape that is used for ductwork. Just the right thickness and sticks like gangbusters. In fact you better have it placed where you want it as this stuff does not like to come off. Mine is Nashua brand, it is 2" wide and there is enough to do 100 models. Don
05-13-2003, 12:34 PM
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Warren, Okay, I couldn't see from the pics that you did the chart tape bit...sorry. You're going the right way! This is going to be a real good thread...I'll be following closely.
Pittsdriver, I agree, I use the Nashua brand aaluminum tape too...excellent stuff
Nemesis4u, I will check out the Tulip brand stuff, sounds like a good idea!
Keep up the good work.
Rob Bailey / Pickupsticks
Pittsdriver, I agree, I use the Nashua brand aaluminum tape too...excellent stuff
Nemesis4u, I will check out the Tulip brand stuff, sounds like a good idea!
Keep up the good work.
Rob Bailey / Pickupsticks
05-13-2003, 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by pittsdriver
One other thing on panel lines. Scribing them is way easier than chart tape and takes a lot less time not to mention cost. Try it sometime and I guaranty you will like the results. Don
One other thing on panel lines. Scribing them is way easier than chart tape and takes a lot less time not to mention cost. Try it sometime and I guaranty you will like the results. Don
Thanks,
05-13-2003, 02:41 PM
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More Weathered Warbirds ME109E project
Very simple Mike. Get the airframe primed and block sanded out ready for paint. Then spray a very light even coat of primer over the entire airframe and lightly sand until smooth. Draw any panel lines in light pencil. I just glue a pin in the end of a 1/4sq hardwood or dowel. It should be sharp but not super sharp. Then just lightly go over all of your pencil lines with the scribe being carefull not to go through the glass. It doesn't really take all that much depth. I use flexible straight edges and curves to keep things straight. I'll be doing my Spitfire like this soon so will have some pictures. Don
05-13-2003, 03:35 PM
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More Weathered Warbirds ME109E project
Well I am glad this is gonna be a useful thread and to see the enthusiasm.
Sean,
The hatches and inspections ports as mentioned are indeed HVAC aluminum tape. I lightly primed the surface and sprayed a little heavier at the edges to give a little more recessed look. The primer will scratch off these as will the latex very easily up until clearcoating. It really is an ideal situation. The kit is a severly modified sureflite foam kit. The fuse was ok, but the wing was not even close, unless they gave me a wing for a hellcat by accident. I trashed the wing and rebuilt a built up wing from a crashed plane that is fully sheeted with foam inserts. The canopy is scratch built out of blasa framework and 1/16th inch plexiglass. The retracts are Hobbico mechanicals modified to retract outward in a scale fashion. The whole airframe was glassed with 3/4oz cloth and I used Olympic brand sanding sealer instead of the WB Poly this time. It seems to fill with less coats and leaves a nicer surface.
Pittsdriver,
I was gonna use the scribe technique on this one and laid out my lines, but it was hard to get the consistincy. One was to deep and the next to shallow, the next tore the glass, It was a mess si I filled it all back in with putty and started over with the tape. To me the tape is a whole lot easier as I just havent got the knack for the scribe.
Mike,
The tape works pretty well for me, but I find if I peel enough off the roll to do the panel line and hold it like dental floss with the sticky side down and my thumbs as a guide it will come out straight. First I put one end down on the starting point and use my thumb to turn it until it eyes up with the end of the line. Then slowly drop it down on the panel line while holding it taught and pressing the remaining end down at the end point hard with my thumb. Then I go back and lightly burnish it with a finger and it seems to hold fine. I think the secret may be in the taughtness but the jury is still out. Then trim the ends and youre done. Out of all the panel lines on the plane, while I was priming,I only had 2 come up very slightly on the ends. I just finished priming, let it dry, peeled them off and went back and used the scribe method with the tip of an xacto to finish the line. Both areas were less then a quarter of an inch long.
Well tonight when I get home from work I will be starting on the silver. I bought a silver leafing pen that I will try after its been painted as a last step and some aluminum acrylic that I will be spraying tonight and masking with liquid mask to form the paint chips. Parts of this project are going to be a little experimental as well, but with latex, you can just wipe it off or cover over it.
Will try and post a few after the silver gets sprayed later on.
Warren
Sean,
The hatches and inspections ports as mentioned are indeed HVAC aluminum tape. I lightly primed the surface and sprayed a little heavier at the edges to give a little more recessed look. The primer will scratch off these as will the latex very easily up until clearcoating. It really is an ideal situation. The kit is a severly modified sureflite foam kit. The fuse was ok, but the wing was not even close, unless they gave me a wing for a hellcat by accident. I trashed the wing and rebuilt a built up wing from a crashed plane that is fully sheeted with foam inserts. The canopy is scratch built out of blasa framework and 1/16th inch plexiglass. The retracts are Hobbico mechanicals modified to retract outward in a scale fashion. The whole airframe was glassed with 3/4oz cloth and I used Olympic brand sanding sealer instead of the WB Poly this time. It seems to fill with less coats and leaves a nicer surface.
Pittsdriver,
I was gonna use the scribe technique on this one and laid out my lines, but it was hard to get the consistincy. One was to deep and the next to shallow, the next tore the glass, It was a mess si I filled it all back in with putty and started over with the tape. To me the tape is a whole lot easier as I just havent got the knack for the scribe.
Mike,
The tape works pretty well for me, but I find if I peel enough off the roll to do the panel line and hold it like dental floss with the sticky side down and my thumbs as a guide it will come out straight. First I put one end down on the starting point and use my thumb to turn it until it eyes up with the end of the line. Then slowly drop it down on the panel line while holding it taught and pressing the remaining end down at the end point hard with my thumb. Then I go back and lightly burnish it with a finger and it seems to hold fine. I think the secret may be in the taughtness but the jury is still out. Then trim the ends and youre done. Out of all the panel lines on the plane, while I was priming,I only had 2 come up very slightly on the ends. I just finished priming, let it dry, peeled them off and went back and used the scribe method with the tip of an xacto to finish the line. Both areas were less then a quarter of an inch long.
Well tonight when I get home from work I will be starting on the silver. I bought a silver leafing pen that I will try after its been painted as a last step and some aluminum acrylic that I will be spraying tonight and masking with liquid mask to form the paint chips. Parts of this project are going to be a little experimental as well, but with latex, you can just wipe it off or cover over it.
Will try and post a few after the silver gets sprayed later on.
Warren
05-13-2003, 04:01 PM
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Subscribing to this thread.
Warren:
I am curious as to why you used glue to make the raised rivets insteasd of burning them into the primer to make flush rivets as was on the full scale 109. Thanks.
Warren:
I am curious as to why you used glue to make the raised rivets insteasd of burning them into the primer to make flush rivets as was on the full scale 109. Thanks.
05-13-2003, 04:18 PM
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More Weathered Warbirds ME109E project
One of the secrets to doing the scribed lines is that last even coat of primer. Also the lines do not have to be deep just enough to show up under the paint. If painting with interior flat latex or water base acrylics the paint surface comes out very thin. If you are filling in all of your panel lines with paint you have way too much paint.
A note on rivets, most of the fighters had flush rivets and trainers and bombers a combination. There is one giant scale Corsair kit out there and the manufacturer has gone to the trouble of putting all the panel lines and rivets on the fuselage. Only problem is they are all raised rivets and the Corsair was all flush riveted. Kind of a bummer to pay all that money and have to sand off all the rivets and start over. The lesson is check your documentation throughly. Don
A note on rivets, most of the fighters had flush rivets and trainers and bombers a combination. There is one giant scale Corsair kit out there and the manufacturer has gone to the trouble of putting all the panel lines and rivets on the fuselage. Only problem is they are all raised rivets and the Corsair was all flush riveted. Kind of a bummer to pay all that money and have to sand off all the rivets and start over. The lesson is check your documentation throughly. Don
05-13-2003, 08:30 PM
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KSonn,
I only added the raised rivets, I seriously wasnt motivated enough to go the full Monty. Its a 40 size sport plane and I wanted to finish it sometime this century. It looked from the pics I have that the 109 has raised rivets at the wing tips, the mg blisters under the wing, the canopy, the access panel to the plugs, the fairings of misc scoops, the spinner, etc, those are the ones I added. When it is done, I can drybrush some of them to bring them out more.
Warren
I only added the raised rivets, I seriously wasnt motivated enough to go the full Monty. Its a 40 size sport plane and I wanted to finish it sometime this century. It looked from the pics I have that the 109 has raised rivets at the wing tips, the mg blisters under the wing, the canopy, the access panel to the plugs, the fairings of misc scoops, the spinner, etc, those are the ones I added. When it is done, I can drybrush some of them to bring them out more.
Warren
05-13-2003, 11:27 PM
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Ok,
Started the silver tonight and lets just say, not all silver is created the same! I tried a few different ones and the one I liked the best with the brightest color in an acrylic was....Winsor Newton Silver Ink.
Heres a pic although its kinda hard to make out, sprayed all the leading egdes and upper wing root surfaces as well as around the entrance to the cockpit. The inspection ports are aluminum tape, so I didnt need to spray around them.
Also, started painting the cowl as well while I was waiting for the silver to dry. Did half the upper cowl so far. And the results look like japanese anime, hehehe but not to bad IMHO.
Gonna finish spraying the upper cowl tonight, touch up some of the preshade in small areas and let it all dry overnight. Tomorrow I will probably add the MGuns to the cowl and mask and spray the light blue underbelly RLM 65. Might work on wheel details tonight.
Warren
Started the silver tonight and lets just say, not all silver is created the same! I tried a few different ones and the one I liked the best with the brightest color in an acrylic was....Winsor Newton Silver Ink.
Heres a pic although its kinda hard to make out, sprayed all the leading egdes and upper wing root surfaces as well as around the entrance to the cockpit. The inspection ports are aluminum tape, so I didnt need to spray around them.
Also, started painting the cowl as well while I was waiting for the silver to dry. Did half the upper cowl so far. And the results look like japanese anime, hehehe but not to bad IMHO.
Gonna finish spraying the upper cowl tonight, touch up some of the preshade in small areas and let it all dry overnight. Tomorrow I will probably add the MGuns to the cowl and mask and spray the light blue underbelly RLM 65. Might work on wheel details tonight.
Warren
05-14-2003, 11:26 PM
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Ok,
Last nite, I masked off the areas for the Hellblau (RLM 65) and sprayed them tonight. I tried to spray from the areas on the fuse sides vertically from top to bottom. The kinda made some thick and thin spots that resemble light streaking due to rain. Its kinda hard to see in the pic. The results...
and...
Overall so far I am pleased with the way this is coming along.
I will mask off the Lt grey tonight and maybe add my canvas to the wheel wells.
Warren
Last nite, I masked off the areas for the Hellblau (RLM 65) and sprayed them tonight. I tried to spray from the areas on the fuse sides vertically from top to bottom. The kinda made some thick and thin spots that resemble light streaking due to rain. Its kinda hard to see in the pic. The results...
and...
Overall so far I am pleased with the way this is coming along.
I will mask off the Lt grey tonight and maybe add my canvas to the wheel wells.
Warren
05-15-2003, 03:04 AM
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Ok, masked of the grey and I couldnt hold back. Sprayed the grey tonight as well. Basically I sprayed the grey from front to back to give it some streaking across the wings. Kinda noticable on the outboard section of the wing. Tomorrow it gets the green mask and sprayed. I threw the canopy and pilot in as well as the wheels to get a feel for how its gonna look. 
Warren
Warren
05-16-2003, 02:14 AM
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Ok. got the base totally done tonight and am in the process of making the swastika templates. Does anyone have the wing dimensions. I have the fuse and rudder dimensions of width per total size, but the wings are a bit different ( thinner white area) then the fuse. eg, on the fuse cross, the black is a 1/4 of the total width, the white is 1/8th and the outer thin black is 1/32 of the total width. I thought I had the wing dimensions but cant seem to locate them. Once the swastikas are on, I have the group id bar, jg logo, and then we can get down to the weathering detail. Here are a few updated pics.
Warren
Warren