Charlie Kellogg's TBM Avenger Build
01-14-2017, 11:13 AM
#2253
Last edited by redtail; 01-14-2017 at 11:16 AM.
01-14-2017, 11:39 AM
#2254
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Not true! But you're suggested method might be easier.
You will have cut, hinge, and mount the doors before you connect the arms to the clam shell doors, but you can mount the torque tubes before hand.
Either sequence would work.
In the end you'll see all your worry was for not... it's pretty simple... just a little "fiddly."
You will have cut, hinge, and mount the doors before you connect the arms to the clam shell doors, but you can mount the torque tubes before hand.
Either sequence would work.
In the end you'll see all your worry was for not... it's pretty simple... just a little "fiddly."
01-14-2017, 12:13 PM
#2255
Noah - You do, of course, make me feel better but in my hind end - "worry" is hanging in front of my eyes like a carrot on a stick. Might have to take back a few hours from Shirley this weekend and begin work on cutting up and mounting the shell. Updates will be posted. Chic
01-15-2017, 05:38 AM
#2258
O'ooooo My God. Shirley just saw your post and said - "Noah is my guy, "YOU" better listen to him", as she walked by and slapped me on the back of my head - again. Roger that about priorities. Of course I will follow your lead. Because of you and Larry, the back of my head is getting pretty sore lately. Smile. Thanks Guys, keep me in check. Chic
Last edited by redtail; 01-15-2017 at 05:42 AM.
01-15-2017, 06:21 AM
#2259
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Chic,
For the rear torsion rod support plates that have the angle.
Drill the center of the brass mounting plate and the wood former it screws to completely through, this will then align and support it's self while doing the mock up.
You may also want to Hysol these brass parts together while in place and soft solder all the other parts.
For the rear torsion rod support plates that have the angle.
Drill the center of the brass mounting plate and the wood former it screws to completely through, this will then align and support it's self while doing the mock up.
You may also want to Hysol these brass parts together while in place and soft solder all the other parts.
Last edited by peter w h; 01-15-2017 at 06:24 AM.
01-15-2017, 01:51 PM
#2260
Peter, a smart idea and will certainly put it to use. My question to you guys is: Is the placement of the plates/bars on F-1/9 based on the 2 1/2" length of the torsion bar arm connection to the bomb bay shell when closed? The geometry is now messing with me. Noah has reduced some of my anxiety. Still looking for advice. Chiuc
01-15-2017, 03:31 PM
#2262
Larry, the post and pictures have been reviewed numerous times by me. Trust me - I have read them very closely. What I am looking for are probably measurements (up/dwn/sideways, etc.) taken for placement of the pads. Especially based on pad placement in order to satisfy the 2 1/2" arm length diameter rotation. Gueww I will just slowly work it out. Will start with measurements taken from the plans. I'll be ok. Thanks guys. Chic
01-16-2017, 06:59 AM
#2263
I couldn't help myself, I really couldn't, Shirley gave me an hour before I "Have" to go meet for breakfast with my daughter and her husband. There is a God for sure. I decided to glue in one of the hardwood strips onto one side of the belly formers. I am trying to keep it straight and level. Maybe later on today, I'll get to glue in the hardwood strip on the other side. I have my fingers crossed. Thanks for the holiday Dr. King, but from one PhD to another, since I am retired - everyday is a holiday except for the weekends when the worker bees are off. Movies are cheap on Tuesdays for Seniors. I'm working my way through this guys with your help. Chic
01-16-2017, 07:58 AM
#2264
Chic,
Remember those days well of trying to get everything straight and aligned. It took us multiple tries but we finally managed.
You look like you will get it on the first try, nice work.
Larry
Remember those days well of trying to get everything straight and aligned. It took us multiple tries but we finally managed.
You look like you will get it on the first try, nice work.
Larry
01-16-2017, 08:06 AM
#2265
Thanks my friend. Following Noah's words, I did not use CA but rather epoxy. I can see why keeping the hardwood strips are important. Will fill in areas not secure with epoxy once I turn the fuse over and before I plank the wing saddle area. She is calling me - got to go. The breakfast was delayed. Hummmmmm Chic
01-18-2017, 09:58 AM
#2268
Hey Guys, my sabatical is over - Smile. Question, when you guys were gluing the 1/4" hardwood strips to the bomb bay panels (4), which panel did you mount first ( the panel connected to the fuse or the two halves for each side then mounting those two halves to the fuse? I'm thinking I would mount the hinge and panel to the fuse then connect that panel to the panel that will rotate from the center. Thus I can cut/trim that center panel to match the center panel from the other side. I thought I should hold off gluing the hardwood to the edges of the center panel edges until the torque rods are mounted to then determine where to glue the hardwood, based on how the two center halves meet and require matching up. Then should I temporarily attach the torque arms to the center panels to get a rough idea of where to mount the torque rods and pads? Today, I have enclosed the wing saddle area of the fuse (top/bottom) - YEA. Thanks guys. Chic
01-18-2017, 10:35 AM
#2270
Chic,
As I'm old and feeble and have a touch of old timers disease I think we mounted the 2 halves together first.
I like your idea but we found that by doing it this way we could always add a piece of balsa to the inside doors if we had a gap and then gently sand to get them to fit tightly. Ours has a very narrow gap that is hardly noticeable, just make sure everything is straight. We only but 4 screws into the hinges so could make fine adjustments to get the halves to meet perfectly and then finished screwing in the hinge AFTER we mounted the clam shells to the fuselage again only using 4 screws. This way if we screwed up we only had 4 holes to fill and redrill.
Hope this helps
Larry
As I'm old and feeble and have a touch of old timers disease I think we mounted the 2 halves together first.
I like your idea but we found that by doing it this way we could always add a piece of balsa to the inside doors if we had a gap and then gently sand to get them to fit tightly. Ours has a very narrow gap that is hardly noticeable, just make sure everything is straight. We only but 4 screws into the hinges so could make fine adjustments to get the halves to meet perfectly and then finished screwing in the hinge AFTER we mounted the clam shells to the fuselage again only using 4 screws. This way if we screwed up we only had 4 holes to fill and redrill.
Hope this helps
Larry
01-18-2017, 11:00 AM
#2271
Larry - did you do like Noah and put a piece of triangular stock on the panel that is attached to the fuse or does the 1/4" stock clear the area when the panel is closed. I like the idea of the limited number of screws to initially install. Will certainly follow your lead on that. We know you live in the high rent district, we won't hold that against ya. Smile. Are those sand storms as awesome as they look on TV? Chic
01-18-2017, 12:25 PM
#2272
Chic,
Told you I'm old AND feeble. I just spent a half hour trying to remove the tape I forgot we put on the bomb bay doors for the maiden flight since we had lost the air valve screws when we ran the engine before the maiden flight.
I would go with Noah's suggestion as I seriously can't remember what I had for breakfast no less if we put in the triangle stock, though we followed Noah's lead when we did our doors.
As for sand storms, they are HUGE and beautiful to look at from a distance but you certainly don't want to get caught in one.
Keep up the beautiful work brother, trust me ours looks no where near as nice as what you are building.
Larry
Told you I'm old AND feeble. I just spent a half hour trying to remove the tape I forgot we put on the bomb bay doors for the maiden flight since we had lost the air valve screws when we ran the engine before the maiden flight.
I would go with Noah's suggestion as I seriously can't remember what I had for breakfast no less if we put in the triangle stock, though we followed Noah's lead when we did our doors.
As for sand storms, they are HUGE and beautiful to look at from a distance but you certainly don't want to get caught in one.
Keep up the beautiful work brother, trust me ours looks no where near as nice as what you are building.
Larry
01-18-2017, 03:52 PM
#2273
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Not sure I understand completely, but I would hinge the two halves (of each side) first. Doing this on the bench will help ensure alignment and it will be easier to drill/set all those screws when it's laying on the bench, not attached to the model.
After the two sides are completed, I would then hinge each half to the fuse/bay opening.
The final fit/trim can be done when you close the doors and check for overlap.
And there certainly should be overlap, because as you add the hinges between the fuse (and each of the halves), this will elongate the circumferential dimension (you're slightly spreading the panels apart by adding the hinges between the gaps).
Clear?
Hahaha!
All of that aside, I think you can go in any direction. Never forget, it's just wood and glue and screws... you can always go back and "adjust"
Adjust = correct, by the way!
NB
After the two sides are completed, I would then hinge each half to the fuse/bay opening.
The final fit/trim can be done when you close the doors and check for overlap.
And there certainly should be overlap, because as you add the hinges between the fuse (and each of the halves), this will elongate the circumferential dimension (you're slightly spreading the panels apart by adding the hinges between the gaps).
Clear?
Hahaha!
All of that aside, I think you can go in any direction. Never forget, it's just wood and glue and screws... you can always go back and "adjust"
Adjust = correct, by the way!
NB
01-18-2017, 04:51 PM
#2274
Clear - to a point NB. Smile. I have split the shell into two parts. As I look along what is now the far side away from the center cut, there is what appears to be scrap - about an 1/8 to possibly 1/2" below what seems like a demarcation line. There seems to be a sort of a seam (line). I'm thinking I can cut along that seam and then cut the halves again to now have 4 equal size shell pieces that when hinged should be sort of square when put in place over the bay. Is there a line of measurement to ensure that I have 4 equal pieces or do I eyeball to cut the halves into halves again to get the 4 equal pieces? I will do as you say and hinge two panels to each other. Then hinge those halves (two pieces ) to each side of the fuse. You said you made a jig to cut the 1/4" hardwood into triangular pieces to hinge the shell to the fuse sides. You recommend that or is a 1/4" square safe to use instead of the triangular stock? Thank YOU. Chic
Last edited by redtail; 01-18-2017 at 04:53 PM.
01-18-2017, 05:20 PM
#2275
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oh no! you're doomed!!
kidding!
what I elected to do was leave the entire glass/bay door layup in tact. I placed this over the bay opening with plane inverted on table, and then (with bright light source/lamp placed in the bay of the model) I traced the edge of the fuse alone the glass layup to demarcate and "custom fit" the glass layup to my (perhaps inaccurate) fuselage.
After the layup was trimmed, I then i marked a centerline where the two haves should meet using marker/sharpie/pen.
Then I measured and "split the distance" between the centerline and the edge of the glass where it would mount to the fuse.
I did all this up front.
After everything was marked and measured, I split the glass along the centerline, and then split each of the halves to I ended up with 4 parts.
If I understand what you're saying, you split the glass before marking and trimming the piece (as a whole) to fit the opening?
I think you're still fine. But it might be more "fiddly."
Might tape the part back together where you split it, and then try to lay the whole piece over the fuse so you can accurately mark where the glass needs to be trimmed/cut to match the fuse. The tape will clearly hold the two halves together, but you might need to add tape to the outside curve so that the parts maintain their convex curve.
Is that helpful?
Regarding the 1/4 hardwood. I cannot remember why I elected to shave that down to triangle-type stock. I think I was imagining that if left "square" the hinging would not work out because the angle between the parts is less than 90 degrees.
Clearer? hahahah!
Mess.
You'll be fine, Chic!
But keep asking if I need to be clearer!
NB
kidding!
what I elected to do was leave the entire glass/bay door layup in tact. I placed this over the bay opening with plane inverted on table, and then (with bright light source/lamp placed in the bay of the model) I traced the edge of the fuse alone the glass layup to demarcate and "custom fit" the glass layup to my (perhaps inaccurate) fuselage.
After the layup was trimmed, I then i marked a centerline where the two haves should meet using marker/sharpie/pen.
Then I measured and "split the distance" between the centerline and the edge of the glass where it would mount to the fuse.
I did all this up front.
After everything was marked and measured, I split the glass along the centerline, and then split each of the halves to I ended up with 4 parts.
If I understand what you're saying, you split the glass before marking and trimming the piece (as a whole) to fit the opening?
I think you're still fine. But it might be more "fiddly."
Might tape the part back together where you split it, and then try to lay the whole piece over the fuse so you can accurately mark where the glass needs to be trimmed/cut to match the fuse. The tape will clearly hold the two halves together, but you might need to add tape to the outside curve so that the parts maintain their convex curve.
Is that helpful?
Regarding the 1/4 hardwood. I cannot remember why I elected to shave that down to triangle-type stock. I think I was imagining that if left "square" the hinging would not work out because the angle between the parts is less than 90 degrees.
Clearer? hahahah!
Mess.
You'll be fine, Chic!
But keep asking if I need to be clearer!
NB