HellcatAce

My Feedback: (6)

I guess I'm in the minority here, but I think the battery hatch is WAY too noticable even in a lousy picture from a distance. I understand the marketing force that practically requires that it be made to satisfy the electron eater crowd, but does it have to be SO noticable?

That alone disqualifies it for me, but then again I feel its sinful to put quiet power in a roaring warbird.

Waiting for the electric flamers to get me now.....

hemi

Hellcat Ace

While the hatch is going to be great for battery access, its pretty noticeable as you say. It sure would be nice if horizon would sell that flat aluminum covering by the roll. That would someone who didn't want the hatch to glue the hatch in place fill and cover the seam. It's not hard to minimize the seam if you had extra covering.

Best regards

stang151

I don't know ,, I guess it looks OK for an ARF, but I just can't seem to get past how UGLY they made the flaps. On the full size ( and the T.F. ARF) the flaps roll in a nice pocket. This butt joint looks bad.

hemi

Stang151

The flap cove would be easy to replicate during a kit bash with doll house cove stock. Have you looked at the thread started by Scale Dail on the Kyosho P51 super detailed. He did a great job on that little Mustang and is a great example of what could be done. Hangar 9's new Mustang has a lot of good things going for it and would make an excellent candidate for super detailing. Right now for me I just want to get this plane in the air but I could see me doing a super detail project later on.
Best regards

charlie1960

There is good and bad with all of them. Personaly i can live with the buttjoint. No one see's it in the air, and on the ground the flaps wont be down. I do like the large hatch for obvious reasons...easy access to the goodies.
Hemi is right in that this plane would make a great basher.
Time will tell.
Im powering with my trusty Saito 100 and 14x8 MA. It pulled my WM 60 Mustang and made it look GOOD.

themaj

Just cherry flighted my new Hangar 9 Bluenose. I built it as an electric with the EFlite Power 90. The airplane looks great however I have several complaints with the "kit"...I do not believe it lives up to the Hangar 9 standards...I have sent all this information and spoken with the Horizon Product Support teaml

The retracts are very nice mechanically however the mounting hard points are not quite correct in the wings so there is wheel binding in the wheel wells. I have corrected this by milling the mounting holes in the retracts to "slots" to allow for adjustment. The hard points in the wings also need some serious epoxy work the the glue work on the model out of the box was quite marginal. The hard points are not set deep enough in the wing for the gear doors to close flush with the wing...this can be corrected by shaving about 1/8" of hard point plywood off prior to mounting the mechanisms.

The spinner is supplied with metric hardware but the EFlite Motors require US SAE hardware. The spinner will mount properly with a 3" 8-32 socket head machine screw. Wrong machine screws supplied for the Cowl mounting.

The supplied hardware is not of great quality in all cases. Flat washers are of the cheap stamped typed and in some cases won't even slide onto the bolts! Not a problem for most builders who maintain good hardware stocks. The supplied push rods are soft and break easily when making 90 bends...strongly recommend using good quality piano wire here.

Mine had many joints in the fus with no glue or mis-aligned parts (battery tray and support bulkhead did not meet, servo tray was aligned poorly with 2 glue tabs not glued, several missed glue spots on the 45 degree braces for access panels in the tail section).

All this said it is GREAT Airplane with pretty good scale detail. The pre-printed Ultra Cote is beautiful and she flies great (needs about 2 OZ of weight in the nose with my Power 90 using a 5000mah 6s battery full forward in tray into nose). The fully internal Flap and Elevator linkages are great and the tail wheel steering implementation is very nice.

A great deal for the money with moderate building skills and careful attention to detail (glue joints and bulkhead fitting) a great airplane.

Jim

hemi

themaj
I'm doing mine with the eflite 90 as well. This will be my first electric warbird. Do you have any tips and comments about the eflite package in addition to what you posted. How was the flight performance and flight time. What prop did you use and battery packs?

best regards

themaj

My first flights have been with a 16 x 8. I am flying a 5000 maH 6 Cell PowerEdge Battery (weight of battery is 29 oz).

My only other comments would be careful attention to all of the joints...I found a LOT of ill-fitting bulkheads and missed glue spots and take your time in adjusting and fitting the retracts.

Jim

Pit-Viper 1

My Feedback: (12)

The first thing you should do after inspecting your ARF is start gluing. I always by a bottle of thick and thin CA an go over EVERYTHING I can get to wether it needs glue or not. I also use 20min finishing epoxy on the firewall both inside and out. Firewalls can come apart without warning.

As far as the flaps go, I think we should be thankful they are there. Unlike the first version. We had to cut the flaps out on my buddies. At least you don't have the hardware outside the wing on the flaps. Got to admit that's pretty cool.


Shane

RodanAZ

Just finished my H9 P-51D today... planning to maiden tomorrow morning.

I re-liveried the plane as "Excalibur" by painting the checkerboard pattern on the rudder, and applying the correct markings in vinyl from Callie Graphics.

Although I would, like many others here, to see more unique aircraft produced, I can certainly understand why a manufacturer would stick with proven sellers like a P-51. That said, this is one of the best looking P-51 ARFs I have seen, it just looks great. That said, it's not a Top Gun entry, and that's not what I was after. I just wanted a daily flyer that didn't look like a Chinese caricature of a Mustang. With the 352nds colors, there are many aircraft to choose from, although it probably wouldn't have been my first choice.

Mine is electric, with a NitroPlanes Monster Power 110 (equivalent to Eflite 110), Castle ICE 75 ESC on 8S (2x 4S4000 in series). I went overkill on the motor to be able to swing a scale size 4 blade prop down the road. Otherwise, built pretty much to the manual. Previous comments about the retracts and lack of gluing apply.

One thing that surprised me was that it came out at 11.5lbs AUW, 2lbs over the H9 'flying weight'. My components (mainly the motor and batteries) came to exactly 1lb more than the 'recommended' EFlite power 60 with a 6S3000. First, I think that would barely fly the plane, second, I had to push my batteries almost to the firewall to get it balanced. I GUARANTEE the Power 60 setup would need that extra pound to balance, unless you can come up with a way to put a lipo in the spinner...

I would sure like to see how they got this plane together at 9.5lbs.... maybe a .60 two stroke and no fuel?? Chinese pounds, I guess...

Anyway, enough *****ing... it looks great, and I'll find out tomorrow how it flies.

Some pics (yes, the exhaust stacks are missing... I got some from Pacific Scaled Aircraft, but they're not ready yet, and I want to get it maidened...)

Pit-Viper 1

My Feedback: (12)

That is an awesome looking bird.. Just by moving that tail wheel closer to where it should be gives it a nice stance, more scale appearance. As far as the weight goes, mine always come out 2-3lbs. more than specified. But that because I re-glue everything I can reach and reinforce the tail sections w/ sheeting. I find they fly a lot more stable with the extra weight as well, more noticeable when it;s a little windy out. Does the tail on this one seem to be pretty solid? Would be nice not having to spend as much time reinforcing as I do building the model on this one.. Can you get video of your flight. Can't wait to hear your report.

Good Luck..
Shane

RodanAZ

Well, good news and bad news....

Got the P-51 put together at the field, and double checked everything, and rolled her out on the runway. I taxied back and forth a couple times to get a feel for the ground handling, which is pretty good. Then I turned it into the wind and rolled on the throttle.

It tracked nice and straight, needing very little rudder to keep it in line as it came up to speed. I eased off the elevator as the tail came up, kept rolling into the throttle, and it lifted of in a very nice, scale manner at about 3/4 throttle. It took a few clicks each on elevator and aileron, and then tracked nice and straight.







I took it up a few mistakes high, and slowed it down 'till it stalled. As expected, it dropped the left wing pretty hard, but recovered easily. It got pretty slow before it stalled, but it's not something you want to flirt with, as the wing drops pretty hard....

I rolled the flaps out, and didn't get a lot of pitch change, but I didn't really slow it down to around stall speed. Next I lined it up for an approach, and came in for a touch and go, just to get a feel for the approach. I didn't intend to land, so I didn't have the flaps deployed, and I kept the speed up. As I got close to the runway, it sank a little faster than I expected, and touched down on the gear. I expected a little bounce, but instead, it immediately nosed over onto the spinner and skidded to a stop... [:'(]

I was a little confused to why it had done that, so we walked over to the plane, and as I picked it up, I noticed the top of the right wing was deformed! Turning it over, I could see that the gear had pushed up into the wing on the right side....

Now, this isn't my first rodeo, and I had two other experienced fliers watching the flight, and we all agreed that the touchdown should have resulted in a small bounce, not a damaged wing...

So, after I got home, I started the post-mortem inspection. Everywhere I had added epoxy was still stuck together (of course...), and most of the factory glue joints were OK. It looks like they just used some really cheesy wood around the retracts. Ply is only used around the retract blocks, and only in front of the spar. Both the ribs inboard and outboard of the retract are balsa, with ply doublers in front of the spar. The balsa sheeting is doubled in front of the spar between those ribs as well. It broke wood all the way back to the trailing edge. Here's some pics:










I'm pretty disappointed that this kind of damage would occur with a relatively soft bounce. I'm going to check with Horizon and see if they'll do anything for me, but since I epoxied the wing halves together, I'm probably screwed. BTW, no damage at all to the left wing...

It did fly well...[:@]

Pit-Viper 1

My Feedback: (12)

Sorry too see that, I had the exact same thing happen on another manufacturer's P-40. Mine tore the entire bay out of the wing and split the top and bottom of the wing all the way to the wing tip. Don't be discouraged though. Yours should be a fairly easy fix, looks like you got all the parts. Just like putting together a jigsaw puzzle. Prob a lot easier than trying to get another wing, but you never know. Looks like it could use some lite ply reinforcing.

Shane

RodanAZ

I've done a little more surgery, and it will definitely be easier to fix than to get a new wing. Except for the covering.... last I heard you have to buy the covering for the whole plane. I did try to cut with the invasion stripes, so I'll probably just cover with whatever and paint.

More examination leads me to believe the cause was mostly crappy wood and spotty gluing. The shear webs were each only glued in two spots, and you could rub the spar into dust between your fingers. Lots of missing glue in the rib to sheet joints as well. This just created a lot of weak spots, and that's where the force went. The problem is, out of the box, you can't get to what you need to get to to beef it up. I added epoxy to everything I could reach, and it just pulled apart further down the line.

Like you said, a jigsaw puzzle to put back together, then some reinforcement in the right areas...

Wonder if the left wing will go on the next landing...

mike early

It doesn't take much to damage the gear area when the plane weighs as much as this one..

A real shame.

Fix it up and fly it again ASAP!

themaj

As I said earlier in the thread I spent a long time with Horizion product support with my concerns over the quality of construction and material in this ARF...not the normal Hangar 9 quality. When I rebuilt the the retract mounts in addition to recessing them properly so the doors close flush I cut and installed 1/8" plywood "sisters" to the ribs that support the retract assemblies. I have about a dozen flights since the rebuild with no problems...it would be nice to be able to purchase the flat ultra-cote for the repairs.

800mZero

My Feedback: (2)

for anyone needing a repairthe typical hanger 9 chrome ultracoat that has been covered over wit hthe printed coating can easily be made to match the dull flat with just that some acrylic "flat" out of an airbrush.

reelay

dear mr. rodanaz could you go into a little detail on your retract tail wheel ,we have the same one but have not started on it yet. i hope you took some pics. of the install . it looks very cool. thanks Lee

RodanAZ

It's the special edition, super scale, .60 size P-51 retractable tail wheel from Adobe.... Photoshop.

I had considered adding a retract tailwheel down the road, but adding weight to the back of this plane is not going to be a good idea. I left the tail doors off with the intention of just photoshopping it out of flying shots. I guess it worked...

FallDownGoBoom

My Feedback: (1)

Rodan:

Sorry about the mishap with your P51. I've been following your thread over on RC Groups, and the last set of photo's over there confirmed my worst fears, that the mounting blocks were one rib bay wide, and that there was little around them in the way of reinforcement. And short of opening up the wing, there's little we can do to make the landing gear mounts stronger.

I'm thinking of epoxying some 2oz fiberglass cloth on the inside of the ribs for reinforcement. Or do you think cutting some 1/2 ribs from 3/16 ply would be stronger?

Fred

800mZero

My Feedback: (2)

Others who have flown the bird have done just that with so far no ill effects fiberglass reinforcement.

RodanAZ

I added epoxy fillets to everything I could reach when I built the plane, and it didn't make a difference. Glass cloth might help, but I think the real issue is the shock is passed through the relatively small reinforced area into soft wood. The forces need to be distributed over a wider area.

What I plan to do on the other wing is to remove the factory shear webs, and double the two ribs on either side of the gear block, and the next inboard rib (where the wing tube terminates) with ply, then put in ply shear webs. This should spread the landing forces over a much wider area, and allow it to survive the inevitable rough landing once in a while without any damage.

I'll post the pic from the other thread here as well, for those that aren't watching the RCG thread. The marked box is the only place there is any ply from the factory. In this picture, I have added a ply doubler to the remains of the factory rib outboard of the retract mount (and the next one outboard, which doesn't really show in the pic). I am going to reinforce the rib on the inboard side of the gear mount, and the next one inboard, which is where the wing tube terminates. Obviously the shear webs and top spar are missing in the photo. These were damaged, and will be replaced.

The factory shear webs were really crappy balsa, and had 2-3 drops of glue securing them. A couple of them were not long enough to butt up against the ribs on both sides.



Let me add for the record that I don't think this is a bad plane. It looks great, is a good platform for electric, and my limited flight with it tells me it's going to be a great flier. I just think H9 build the wing like a 5lb 3D plane, not like a 10lb warbird needs to be built.[8D]

Pit-Viper 1

My Feedback: (12)

yeah there should be ply the entire length of the ribs. I would also shape a piece of bass wood and place it along the leading/trailing edge balsa to connect the 2 ribs. I usually do all 3 bays when I convert form fixed to retracts just to distribute the energy better if there's room. Very simple fix just time consuming and not to mention, that should be flying time not repair time. Looking good though, keep at it and you'll be back at it in no time.

Shane

FallDownGoBoom

My Feedback: (1)

That sounds like a plan. I don't know if you're planning on removing the gear rails before you add the rib doublers, but I'd also replace the built-up lite ply rails with maple, and extend the rails over a two bay span.

I think on mine I'm going to try to epoxy some triangle stock on the back of the LG rails, as well as glassing the inside of the ribs. I may also try to find a way to bulk up the shear webbing... tough to do without major surgery. Then try to land it very softly!

I agree with you, it's a great looking bird, and early flight reports have been positive. At first glance, the internal construction on the fuselage was everything I'd do on my own: triangle stock reinforcing on the motor mount box, tab and groove construction, servo placement logically thought out, etc. But the servo tray broke when I was screwing down one of the servo's, and a couple of mounting tabs for the hatches broke away when I was putting screws into them. If you're going to power it with a glow engine, the tank centerline is about 1" above the carb on a 4S, which could lead to fuel siphoning. It's minor stuff, but still aggravating on a $300 ARF.

RodanAZ

I finished the replacement ribs, and the glue on the spar and shear webs is drying. Here's a pic of the ribs:



Rib #1 is the rib where the wing tube terminates, and I decided to double this rib back to the wing tube. This should help distribute the landing forces into the tube, and over a greater area.

Ribs #2 and 3 are the gear block supports, and took the brunt of the damage. #2 is on the inboard side, so you can't really see it.

Rib #4 I don't think will need doubling if you are starting from scratch, but mine was damaged, so I went ahead and added a ply doubler.

All are 3/32" ply. The shear webs are now in, also 3/32" ply, and I added a piece at the leading edge between the ribs I doubled. It's now built like the proverbial masonry lavatory, so it should hold up.

I'll put up another pic when the glue is dry. I'm also going to cut open the other wing at that point, before re-sheeting the repaired wing.