Timthetoolman1

My Feedback: (6)

No Bob, I didn't run it without the pump. I was curious too but more curious about the pump : )
Scott, I think I messed up, it's an [link=http://www.vogelsang-aeroscale.com/sep3black.html]18 pitch.[/link]
My buddy's leg was pitch black, like lamp black, because he was kneeling by the exhaust.

flyguy

My Feedback: (20)

I have a Moki 250 and I am installing the pluming for the pump. I had a few questions about the hook up, first question is with the pump I received two tees and some fuel line. One tee was in a plastic bag labeled Deaerator. I thought the two tees were used to reroute excess pressure back to the tank. Dr Göetz says don`t use the two tees just plum from the tank to a fuel filter then the pump and from there to the carb. I guess I was making it too difficult. Just thought I would pass the information along.

Timthetoolman1

My Feedback: (6)

I junked them. I figured if you've got to take off the cowl periodically for priming then it should come off easy enough when you need to prime it too. The keep it simple method comes to mind.

Scott Prossen

I thought there would be a loop back to the tank to relieve built up pressure. I assumed the pump action was constant and excess fuel was returned to the tank[sm=50_50.gif]. No???

Good luck with them guys. Let us know how the final plumming goes and of course we want to know the performance results!

Scott

germrb

My Feedback: (3)

Scott,

I beleive that the pump draws fuel from the tank through a check valve, circulates it in a loop at a specific pressure, and the carb feeds off the pressurized loop. The tank never gets pressurized. It should be wired to the ignition so that when the ignition is turned off, the pump is turned off.

Scott Prossen

Thanks Bob, makes perfect sense[sm=49_49.gif]! Would love to see a photo of it all hooked up for our visual only people. I love the pictures too. Can anyone help with that picture/illustration[sm=72_72.gif]?

Scott

Timthetoolman1

My Feedback: (6)

It works like a simple pressure relief valve. The fuel comes from the tank through a filter, to the pump intake, out the pump discharge (marked by the arrow) through another filter to the carburetor nipple located on the bottom of the carb. If the fuel coming out of the pump discharge is not going anywhere it goes through the metallic device back into the pump intake and 'churns' in a loop.



The foam is a voltage regulator. Right now I have (1) 2700 LI-Ion. From the battery, through the switch (important so you're not charging the regulator, just the battery), through the voltage regulator and Ys off to the fuel pump and the ignition module (which is mounted similarly to how it will be mounted with rubber grommets).

(Edited for bad spelling LOL[:@] )

Mk23socom

My Feedback: (7)

I was thinking I MAY like the idea of a fuel pump set up!.. Sounds pretty idiot proof!.

Hey Scott, have you heard of guys putting the high heat resistant exhaust wrap around the collector ring?.. I would imagine it would help keep the heat down inside the cowl some and from what I have gathered from the old hot rodders I know, keeping that heat IN the collection devices helps speed exhaust gas scavenging, which in turn, enhances performance.. I wonder if anyone has tried it!?

germrb

My Feedback: (3)

K C,

Very interesting idea. If you wrap the exhaust ring you can baffle the engine and increase the airflow through the cylinder heads. The exhaust gas temperatures would go up, but that may not be such a bad thing. Way to think outside the box.

mogman

Just checked a local auto parts store website.... header wrap..1200 deg. f.. 1 in. wide 1/16th. thick..50ft. for 30 bucks Cdn. Sounds like a great idea. I will seriously consider using some on my 400 as this motor is a heat monster.

Dave.

Mk23socom

My Feedback: (7)

Hey if you guys give it a try let me know!.. Iam a long way off from firing a round motor up since Iam waitin on mine from TBMas it is on backorder..that and it will be a while before i can get time to tie into the project it is going into. I used two boxes of the 2' X1/8" variety on my 72 Chevy truck when Irebuilt the motor and put headers on it. The old man said, "boy, you are gonna COOK that brand new starter." Iput that wrap on there and the underhood temps went down by a large amount! Idont see any reason why this wont work on something smaller andI am willing to bet the 400 sees the biggest benefit from this! Again, let me know how it works out!

mogman

Kirby, like you I am a LONG way off firing up the motor in a plane...hopefully this time next year. I have run the 400 a little on a stand, had one made up that fits into the trailer hitch receiver on my van....did a few heat/cooldown cycles. Definately develops a lot of heat. First time I revved it up it literally blew me off my feet!

Dave.

Mk23socom

My Feedback: (7)

Thats Bad ***** dave! The 400 is a monster! you could try the exhaust wrap while the motor is on a stand and see if it behaves differently.Another thought that occured to me was the intake runners are very close to the header pipes and if those are wrapped as well, it MAY increase the intake charge O2 density which will enhance performance AND I have been told (Ihave no evidence to back it up other than possibly some old literature), can DECREASEEGTs.. I'm no expert but IDOknow some people who think they are..HAHA!

TheRickster

My Feedback: (12)

I always foud the header wraps to be a pain.. I would consider sending the ring off to [link]http://www.jet-hot.com/[/link] or one of the coating places and getting it ceramic coated. This coating reatins the heat same as the wraps do but are a permanently applied coating rather than something wrapped and fastened with wire or clamps...

Rick

Timthetoolman1

My Feedback: (6)

When I got the engine a couple of weeks ago I talked to a buddy about wrapping the exhaust and he thought it was a bad idea. He didn't make since as to why but I would be curious to see if it had been done before. I think he was trying to tell me it's better to let the exhaust breath. If it glows red hot when the engine is baffled wouldn't be a ball of fire wrapped under a blanket?
I've heard about the ceramic coating, we considered both of these options while building a '69 Chevy step-side a few years ago, but didn't think about it in this setup. The only problem is obtaining a new exhaust if this idea didn't work the way we want.

Kirby, [link=http://www.vogelsang-aeroscale.com/]Vogelsang[/link] probably has them in stock. I like Goetz, he's got a lot of experience with these motors, has been flying them for years, knows the guy that builds the upgrade parts, and stays in contact with the dealer out of Germany.

Mk23socom

My Feedback: (7)

Rickster just one-upped me there with the Jethot idea. Icompletely forgot about that! A quote if Icould please!

"The principle works on ceramic headers due to the tuned design and exhaust scavenging effect. It accelerates the pulsed-vacuum effect on tuned headers, resulting in more effective scavenging of cylinders. The increased velocity of exhaust gases produced by higher exit inertia not only clears each cylinder more quickly but it draws in the next fuel/air charge more efficiently. I've tuned and built HP engines over the past 35 years from Chevy small blocks to Mopar big blocks and the L67 Series II 3800 engine and never used or needed exhaust wrap. The worst thing to do was use outer exhaust wrap which caused documented cases of mummified headers. Meaning literal disintegration of the header's steel tubing. Exhaust wrap which is an outer-only thermal barrier would block the heat from radiating through the exterior metal surface. Heat retention is one thing but heat coming off the exhaust system needs to be dissipated regardless."


"If your vehicle is being run on the street or for extended periods of time, you should never wrap headers. We never recommend exhaust wraps because it insulates the exhaust too much and retains moisture. This causes the exhaust temperature to be raised to a level that fatigues the header material causing cracks and can also cause rusting and pitting due to the moisture retained. .If you choose to use an exhaust wrap, the warranty will be void. If under hood temperatures are an issue, we recommend using Hooker’s Metallic Ceramic Thermal Barrier Coating. Our coating is applied inside and out. It is corrosion and heat resistant up to 1600°F. It also reduces underhood temperatures and has a polished high luster finish. Holding exhaust temperatures inside the header increases the exhaust gas velocity producing more horsepower."

Ceramic coating wasnt around for the guys that told me to wrap my headers.. I will leave them wrapped.. i spent $120 on them when Ibought them a decade ago so there's no loss there really, they paid for themselves.

There are hundreds of other opinions like this all over the internet. The one big difference here is the fact that these cars they are talking about drive for hours at a time while the average flight lasts less than 20 mins at a time.. note the "on the street or extended periods of time.".. Hard to say how this adds up side by side.. but Ithink that ceramic coating would be the safest bet.

Mk23socom

My Feedback: (7)

Rangerman, were you referring to the application of a fuel pump?.. Iam assuming you were.. Iemailed that outfit a month ago about something stupid, dont remember what it was.. it was an undeliverable address is what I got in return.. anyones thoughts??

Timthetoolman1

My Feedback: (6)

Kirby, I was referring to the engine as well. It's odd you had problems contacing him. If you would like to call him, PM me and I'll give you his cell number. I know he's been in Germany lately for a tech siminar but he returned my call from there.

germrb

My Feedback: (3)

K.C., et al,

If you're looking for header wrap, here's a US source. I order a roll on Friday.

http://www.jcwhitney.com/insulating-...wx?filterid=j1

Mk23socom

My Feedback: (7)

i"ve spent alot of money with JC Whitney..

TheRickster

My Feedback: (12)

You can also use the ceramic coating of the Do-it-yourself variety from [link]http://www.eastwood.com/tlc-aluminum-ceramic-coating-4fl-oz.html[/link]..

Rick

germrb

My Feedback: (3)

Rick, K.C., et al,

I talked with a Plating Company in Salt Lake City about ceramic coating efficiency and found out that a 25% heat reduction is about the best you can hope for; although some material suppliers claim as much as 30%. According to them the DIY products are generally a lot less efficient. Material wraps, on the other hand, can be as much as 50% efficient or more depending on the material thickness.

I received a 50' roll of material from JC Wihitney, which is 1" wide and about 0.050" thick. It should take about 16' to cover the ring and exhaust stacks with 1/2" overlap. I'm considering having the ring ceramic coated and then wrap it with tape. Meanwhile, I've got to rebuild an airplane I buried last Friday.

Thur. 8/12 Finally got some time to work on my radial again. I spent the afternoon wrapping the exhaust manifold. Its kind of ugly, but its under the cowl and doesn't detract from the airplane. I used 1" tape cut into five 54" strips plus a little extra on the exhaust pipes. I wrapped everything without having to pull the engine, which was a great help. Hopefully, I can get out next week and collect some data.

germrb

My Feedback: (3)

[quote]ORIGINAL: germrb

Rick, K.C., et al,

I talked with a Plating Company in Salt Lake City about ceramic coating efficiency and found out that a 25% heat reduction is about the best you can hope for; although some material suppliers claim as much as 30%. According to them the DIY products are generally a lot less efficient. Material wraps, on the other hand, can be as much as 50% efficient or more depending on the material thickness.

I received a 50' roll of material from JC Wihitney, which is 1'' wide and about 0.050'' thick. It should take about 16' to cover the ring and exhaust stacks with 1/2'' overlap. I'm considering having the ring ceramic coated and then wrap it with tape. Meanwhile, I've got to rebuild an airplane I buried last Friday.

germrb

My Feedback: (3)

Finally got some time to work on my radial again. I spent the afternoon wrapping the exhaust manifold. Its kind of ugly, but its under the cowl and doesn't detract from the airplane. I used 1'' tape cut into five 54'' strips plus a little extra on the exhaust pipes. I wrapped everything without having to pull the engine, which was a great help. Hopefully, I can get out next week and collect some data.
[/quote]

Scott Prossen

Hey Bob,
The wrap looks great and I'm very interested to hear about the results. I assume you are just trying to reduce the overall engine temp or the temp under the cowl...something like that??? Keep up the good work and tell us how it works out!

Round ones Rule,
Scott