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MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Old 06-12-2011, 12:20 PM
  #1276  
patrnflyr
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Hello guys, sorry if posted in the wrong thread but can you steer me towards the US distributor for the Moki's. My son and I and mostly large electric fliers but am considering a large FW-190 with this engine. Thanks for your help!

John

PS I've been to Vogelsang's site. Is that the only one?
Old 06-12-2011, 01:06 PM
  #1277  
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

John,

The only other US distributor is TBM in Fla. They sell them under the tradename "RSC" engines.

http://www.troybuiltmodels.com/

There is also a Canadian distributor called Aircraft Modelers Research ( AMR ). They also sell them under their own tradename of "AMR" radials.

Hope that helps. Welcome to the world of big engines.
Old 06-12-2011, 02:48 PM
  #1278  
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Thanks a bunch! John
Old 06-13-2011, 08:36 AM
  #1279  
TJPro351
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Does anyone have a step by step procedure on adjusting/setting valves? Is there a place where to buy the gauges and little wrenches to adjust?
Thanks for your help.
Tim
Old 06-13-2011, 09:25 AM
  #1280  
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Tim,

Troy Built Models has a tool kit for the radials, which includes the wrenches, filler gauge, etc. Their over in Sarasoda so you can get quick delivery. Cost is $48 USD.

I use to live in Indian Harbour Beach and work for Harris years ago.

Good luck,
Old 06-13-2011, 01:47 PM
  #1281  
TJPro351
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Thanks Bob. I did not realize TBM had a kit. They sure are proud of them
It appears Harris is still going strong. I work for Northrop Grumman and hope Obama doesn't cut anything more that would cost more jobs for the space coast.
Again, thanks for the help.
Tim
Old 06-13-2011, 05:40 PM
  #1282  
Jack Diaz
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Just a heads up (probably everybody knows this already):

The carburator fuel line fitting is too small for the 6mm OD tygon fuel line. The 6mm line feels to fit OK, but it will become loose over time, even if you double it up at the fitting (almost impossible to reach with safety wire).
Mine quit because of this after about a year.

Have to use a 5mm OD line. I double it up at the nipple.

This connection should be another maintenance check point.

Jack
Old 06-13-2011, 08:55 PM
  #1283  
RichardGee
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Jack,
I use 'zip ties' on every fuel line fitting from the clunk to the carburetor nipple.
I also add fuel line barbs to every brass tube so the fuel line cannot back off.
I learned this from the IMAC/3D flyers.
Cheap insurance.
Old 06-14-2011, 06:22 AM
  #1284  
Jack Diaz
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Richard, I do it too. Everywhere !!
But in this case I couldn't reach the carb fitting to securely zip tie it, since it is located deep inside the back body of the engine.
And I think that even with a zip tie, the 6mm line could eventually come loose from the carb. It is too big.
This will be even more problematic if you use a pump, since you will have positive pressure in the line.
The 5mm line, doubled with a piece of 1/4" by 6mm line, fits really snug.

Not the best pictures, but to show how I went from 6 to 5mm.

BTW, I just thought that perhaps the way to zip tie the line at the carb fitting will be to install the fuel line before you mount the engine on the plane. So you can work from behind the engine body. (just learning to think outside the box... literally )


Jack
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Old 06-14-2011, 10:37 AM
  #1285  
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

HI JACK May be if the turbulator was fitted it would serve twofold by exstending the carb back where you can get at it and gass (distrobution )not spelt right [sm=bananahead.gif]
Old 06-14-2011, 02:20 PM
  #1286  
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Hello Jack, Why not go right from the tank (or pump) with 5mm fuel line? One less connection to worry about. But your idea of attatching a line to the carb while the engine is off the plane is simple and pure genius. As you know by now the engine is not fuel thirsty even at full throttle so 5mm line is plenty large enough to use throughout the fuel system. Mitch
Old 06-14-2011, 03:44 PM
  #1287  
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Dento, you are right. The turbulator will make the fuel connection a lot easier.

Mitch, it was a fix after the airplane was ready and flying (excuses for being too lazy to take the tank out). Besides, I had no idea that these engines were so fuel efficient. I am flying 10 minutes with about 20 oz. of fuel. When I take the engine out to install it on the P-47, I will use 5mm all the way. The 6x5 brass connector is a left over from the Jetcat install kit


I have to confess again that I am amazed ! Over 50 pages of posts, and nobody has insulted everybody else. My conclusion is that there is something very wrong with the jet guys (Just kidding, but true).

Jack
Old 06-14-2011, 11:25 PM
  #1288  
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence


ORIGINAL: Jack Diaz

Dento, you are right. The turbulator will make the fuel connection a lot easier.

Mitch, it was a fix after the airplane was ready and flying (excuses for being too lazy to take the tank out). Besides, I had no idea that these engines were so fuel efficient. I am flying 10 minutes with about 20 oz. of fuel. When I take the engine out to install it on the P-47, I will use 5mm all the way. The 6x5 brass connector is a left over from the Jetcat install kit


I have to confess again that I am amazed ! Over 50 pages of posts, and nobody has insulted everybody else. My conclusion is that there is something very wrong with the jet guys (Just kidding, but true).

Jack
D,ONT PUSH ME
Old 06-16-2011, 01:05 PM
  #1289  
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

I just ordered my first Radial, a Moki 250. I have read as much as I can find on the Moki and the 3W Bearcat ( which I got in a trade partially built), but the more I read the more scared I get. You know the saying if your scared then say you are scared! I am excited and can't wait to the plane in the air.

I am curious as to how many of you are using the electric fuel pump versus not. Should I use the Pump?
Old 06-16-2011, 02:26 PM
  #1290  
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

007,

For one opinion, absolutely!!! I have three radials and I won't fly them without a pump. The pump significantly improves performance and reliability. The improvement in reliability comes from eliminating the air pump tubing that drives the carb diaphram. Any obstruction in the tube and the engine goes lean and overheats. In my view, the small carb can't keep up with the engines demand at full throttle. Consequently, you get much stronger performance with the pump at full throttle.

As an added bonus, at no extra charge, it makes them much easier to start.
Old 06-16-2011, 03:43 PM
  #1291  
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Bob you are so wright about the pump I have 2 mokis a 150 and a 215 both have the pump .
Don't leve home without it.
wr450
Old 06-16-2011, 03:54 PM
  #1292  
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

I have 2 of the Moki 250's, and each has the Vogelsang fuel pump. It is a little pricey, but it does everything said in the previous posts - and improves the mixture performance. You actually have to lean both needles with the electric pump. Your engine will choke in 3 or 4 flips and start in another 3 with the pump. You can run the pump off the engine battery with a 'Y' cable off a regulator set to around 5.1 or 5.2 volts. Good luck with your Moki - you will love it.
Old 06-16-2011, 04:41 PM
  #1293  
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Thanks guys for the quick reply on the pump. I will definitely install the pump. Now if I can just get the rest of the items for the Bearcat.
Old 06-16-2011, 09:00 PM
  #1294  
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Dos007 I have a set of scale retacts for the bearcat (gean barton) with wheels.They get shorter as they retact very nice set if you are in need of them.
Thanks wr450
Old 06-17-2011, 03:07 AM
  #1295  
dos007
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

WR450
Thanks I may get back to you on the retracts. The plane came with Sierra. I am going through the plane now to try and decide what items I need, what is good, etc....
Old 06-17-2011, 09:07 AM
  #1296  
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence


ORIGINAL: dos007

I just ordered my first Radial, a Moki 250. I have read as much as I can find on the Moki and the 3W Bearcat ( which I got in a trade partially built), but the more I read the more scared I get. You know the saying if your scared then say you are scared! I am excited and can't wait to the plane in the air.

I am curious as to how many of you are using the electric fuel pump versus not. Should I use the Pump?
Well my opinnion is that If the engine works as manufacturer intented I would not buy any additional items to it. As the pump also may malfunction. It can electrical or mechanical failure and thats one more than the engines own "pump". The manufacturer says that Moki engines don't need pumps. So I won't install one.
It is hard to believe that the Moki designers had made an error designing the carb so that it would not give enough gas and air at any throttle setting. Sure I agree that the carb could use a velocity stack because 90° angles are not very good flows.

Sure it propably make the first start of the day easier since the pressurised loop is closer to the carb. I like to check things around the engine while turning the prop until it pops.

I could consider a pump if someone/manufacturer gives some actual data of the increased performance. Until then I'm very happy just the way it was built.

But that's just my opinnion.

Old 06-17-2011, 09:42 AM
  #1297  
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

I tend to agree with your arguments. While I have read this entire blog and can see many well thought-out reasons for adding the pump; and have spoken with Moki flyers who use the pump and swear by it - I also question why Moki would continue to produce this engine/carburetor combo if its fuel delivery system is so inadequate?

Jack Diaz was ready to purchase both a Turbolator and a pump, convinced that his Moki problems were due to fuel delivery, when he made the switch to 50:1 synthetic, and his Moki 250 now runs perfect flight after flight.

Andreas Gietz (CARF) flies his warbirds all with Moki 250's and does not use a pump or Turbolator.

It is clear the Moki lacks some pump pressure, but are modelers installing the gas tanks ABOVE the engine centerline as they are supposed to? Are they periodically cleaning the pressure tube so that it never clogs? Are they using a quality synthetic oil mixed 50:1 per manufacturer? IF all of these questions are answered YES, and they still have engine problems, I would first look to vacuum leaks or fuel system air leaks before immediately installing a $250 fuel pump. While the engine may run great with the pump, it may just be masking another problem...

My $0.02
Old 06-17-2011, 11:49 AM
  #1298  
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

There are a lot of thoughts on "to pump or not". I bought the pump with the motor, but I will try to run it first without the pump. If it runs and starts easy then no pump but if not then I will have the pump ready to install.
Old 06-17-2011, 12:12 PM
  #1299  
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence


ORIGINAL: dos007

There are a lot of thoughts on "to pump or not". I bought the pump with the motor, but I will try to run it first without the pump. If it runs and starts easy then no pump but if not then I will have the pump ready to install.
It is a very easy starting engine, all you need to do is follow the instuction and make sure that the choke plate fully closes. The first "pop" is bound to the lenght of the fuel line. As it was previously/manual, turn the prop slowly with both hands until it "pops". That is the key starting the engine without loosing your hope and nerves.

Old 06-17-2011, 02:14 PM
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

007,

There are as many opinions as there are people and it can be somewhat confusing. First of all, the Moki engines run fine without fuel pumps. They are certainly adequately designed. All the other radial designs that I have seen use the same air pulse system to drive the carb diaphram. So, don't be too concerned that there is going to be a big problem without a pump. I have run radials for several years without fuel pumps and they have run quite well.

Since you have the pump, may I suggest that you start without the pump and get a feel for the engine performance. After you get more comfortable with the engine, install the pump and see if you like the difference. The pump is very easy to install and/or remove, so its not a big deal. Then you can make your own decision based on personal experience.

For those of us who actually use them, the feeling seems to be pretty unanimous that they significnantly improve performance. But, you should find out for yourself.

Good luck,

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