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Old 10-31-2019, 02:01 PM
  #17726  
Ernie P.
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Originally Posted by MargaretWoodard
Amazing topic!
Ma'am;

I hope you approve and will join in. We'd love to have you join with us as we learn and try to teach each other about the History of warbirds. Thanks; Ernie P.
Old 11-01-2019, 04:24 AM
  #17727  
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This morning's clue, and an extra one just to help get things going.

Looking for the name of a warbird.

1. Designed and built early in a war. It was an improved version of an earlier airplane from the same manufacturer.

2. Its performance in one role was acceptable, but that role was not one that its country had much need for at the time, so it was given other roles, for which it was ill-suited.

3. It was flown by three services of the one country that used it.

4. It was a fighter. It was considered hard to fly, although one of its country's top-scoring aces got some of his kills while flying it.

5. One reason for its poor handling was that it had a higher wing loading than many of its contemporaries.

6. Another problem, at least initially, was that when it first went into service the pilots who flew it had previously flown airplanes that were much more docile.

7, Despite its shortcomings, it was pretty clearly its country's best fighter when hostilities began.

8. It was faster, at least at high altitude, and had longer range than the enemy fighters it faced.
Old 11-01-2019, 02:58 PM
  #17728  
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Not a new clue, but clue 7 has been reworded, as it may have been misleading as originally written.

Looking for the name of a warbird.

1. Designed and built early in a war. It was an improved version of an earlier airplane from the same manufacturer.

2. Its performance in one role was acceptable, but that role was not one that its country had much need for at the time, so it was given other roles, for which it was ill-suited.

3. It was flown by three services of the one country that used it.

4. It was a fighter. It was considered hard to fly, although one of its country's top-scoring aces got some of his kills while flying it.

5. One reason for its poor handling was that it had a higher wing loading than many of its contemporaries.

6. Another problem, at least initially, was that when it first went into service the pilots who flew it had previously flown airplanes that were much more docile.

7, Despite its shortcomings, it was probably one of its country's best fighters when hostilities began.

8. It was faster, at least at high altitude, and had longer range than the enemy fighters it faced.
Old 11-02-2019, 04:20 AM
  #17729  
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Morning clue:

Looking for the name of a warbird.

1. Designed and built early in a war. It was an improved version of an earlier airplane from the same manufacturer.

2. Its performance in one role was acceptable, but that role was not one that its country had much need for at the time, so it was given other roles, for which it was ill-suited.

3. It was flown by three services of the one country that used it.

4. It was a fighter. It was considered hard to fly, although one of its country's top-scoring aces got some of his kills while flying it.

5. One reason for its poor handling was that it had a higher wing loading than many of its contemporaries.

6. Another problem, at least initially, was that when it first went into service the pilots who flew it had previously flown airplanes that were much more docile.

7, Despite its shortcomings, it was probably one of its country's best fighters when hostilities began.

8. It was faster, at least at high altitude, and had longer range than the enemy fighters it faced.

9. Most of them were armed with machine guns, in varying configurations. A handful had cannons, and some had rockets.
Old 11-02-2019, 06:21 PM
  #17730  
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Newport 11
Old 11-02-2019, 06:57 PM
  #17731  
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Originally Posted by elmshoot
Newport 11
I don't think so, Sparky; but I guess we'll see. The Nieuport 11 wasn't put into service until 1916, well after the war started. Now, the Nieuport 10, the Bebe's predecessor, was available shortly after the war started; perhaps even before, although in very small numbers. I've considered both planes, but also rejected them both. Neither fits all the clues. To tell the truth, I've considered a lot of planes; but rejected them all. I'm still trying to figure out how a plane could be designed and built after the war started; and still be one of the best fighters available at the start of hostilities.??? There aren't many nations that didn't start actual hostilities until after the start of a war; the U.S. (WWI and WWII), Japan (WWII) and Russia (WWII) come to mind pretty quickly. And the plane we're looking for was "flown by three services of the one country that used it". One country? That rules out almost all well known warbirds. And just how many nations even had *three* "services" that flew any type of aircraft prior to the sixties? I'm afraid this one has me puzzled. Thanks; Ernie P.

Last edited by Ernie P.; 11-02-2019 at 07:00 PM.
Old 11-03-2019, 05:06 AM
  #17732  
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Yep the Newport 11 was a drive by guess.
Another guess is the F-4 Phantom. Some clues don't align perfectly but since we really don't know the time frame....
Sparky
Old 11-03-2019, 06:33 AM
  #17733  
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Not the Nieuport 11 or the F-4, Sparky. Here's this morning's clue, plus a bonus clue for you. And an extra clue to celebrate keeping Ernie puzzled for 9 clues. possibly a record! These should narrow down the time frame.

Looking for the name of a warbird.

1. Designed and built early in a war. It was an improved version of an earlier airplane from the same manufacturer.

2. Its performance in one role was acceptable, but that role was not one that its country had much need for at the time, so it was given other roles, for which it was ill-suited.

3. It was flown by three services of the one country that used it.

4. It was a fighter. It was considered hard to fly, although one of its country's top-scoring aces got some of his kills while flying it.

5. One reason for its poor handling was that it had a higher wing loading than many of its contemporaries.

6. Another problem, at least initially, was that when it first went into service the pilots who flew it had previously flown airplanes that were much more docile.

7, Despite its shortcomings, it was probably one of its country's best fighters when hostilities began.

8. It was faster, at least at high altitude, and had longer range than the enemy fighters it faced.

9. Most of them were armed with machine guns, in varying configurations. A handful had cannons, and some had rockets.

10. A few thousand were produced.

11. Production pretty much stopped after about one year, mostly because the engine manufacturers shifted to production of a similar engine for a different airplane.

12. Although it was fast, its rate of climb was inferior to that of the fighters it opposed, in part, perhaps, because it was heavier than the airplane it was designed to be an improvement of.
Old 11-03-2019, 08:15 AM
  #17734  
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Originally Posted by elmshoot
Yep the Newport 11 was a drive by guess.
Another guess is the F-4 Phantom. Some clues don't align perfectly but since we really don't know the time frame....
Sparky
Now there's a thought, Sparky. The Viet Nam conflict started quite a few years before the United States got involved; plenty of time for an aircraft to be designed and put into production. Korea, not so much; we got involved pretty quickly after that one started. Hmmm.... Thanks; Ernie P.
Old 11-03-2019, 08:23 AM
  #17735  
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Originally Posted by Top_Gunn
Not the Nieuport 11 or the F-4, Sparky. Here's this morning's clue, plus a bonus clue for you. And an extra clue to celebrate keeping Ernie puzzled for 9 clues. possibly a record! These should narrow down the time frame.

Looking for the name of a warbird.

1. Designed and built early in a war. It was an improved version of an earlier airplane from the same manufacturer.

2. Its performance in one role was acceptable, but that role was not one that its country had much need for at the time, so it was given other roles, for which it was ill-suited.

3. It was flown by three services of the one country that used it.

4. It was a fighter. It was considered hard to fly, although one of its country's top-scoring aces got some of his kills while flying it.

5. One reason for its poor handling was that it had a higher wing loading than many of its contemporaries.

6. Another problem, at least initially, was that when it first went into service the pilots who flew it had previously flown airplanes that were much more docile.

7, Despite its shortcomings, it was probably one of its country's best fighters when hostilities began.

8. It was faster, at least at high altitude, and had longer range than the enemy fighters it faced.

9. Most of them were armed with machine guns, in varying configurations. A handful had cannons, and some had rockets.

10. A few thousand were produced.

11. Production pretty much stopped after about one year, mostly because the engine manufacturers shifted to production of a similar engine for a different airplane.

12. Although it was fast, its rate of climb was inferior to that of the fighters it opposed, in part, perhaps, because it was heavier than the airplane it was designed to be an improvement of.
A clarification, if I may, Sir. Does Clue (3) mean that only one country used this aircraft? That's one of the big puzzles for me. Thanks; Ernie P.
Old 11-03-2019, 08:27 AM
  #17736  
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Originally Posted by Ernie P.
A clarification, if I may, Sir. Does Clue (3) mean that only one country used this aircraft? That's one of the big puzzles for me. Thanks; Ernie P.
Yes. Only one country used it, according to Wikipedia, anyway. Not always a reliable source, but I don't know of any others.
Old 11-03-2019, 12:35 PM
  #17737  
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I'd love to say the F9F Cougar except I don't know of the Air Force using it. How about the F-86? It was used by the Airforce under the F-86 Sabre designation and as the FJ-2 through 4 Fury for the Navy and, by extension the Marines. That's the only plane that I know of that was flown by only one country and by three services since I don't know of any other country that actually has three services while the US has five, if you include the Coast Guard

Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 11-03-2019 at 02:12 PM.
Old 11-03-2019, 01:05 PM
  #17738  
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Not the F9F or the F-86. I wouldn't consider the FJ series airplanes as being the same airplane as the F-86, though of course they were close relatives. That "three services" clue is indeed important. Here's your bonus clue, which may help quite a bit.

Looking for the name of a warbird.

1. Designed and built early in a war. It was an improved version of an earlier airplane from the same manufacturer.

2. Its performance in one role was acceptable, but that role was not one that its country had much need for at the time, so it was given other roles, for which it was ill-suited.

3. It was flown by three services of the one country that used it.

4. It was a fighter. It was considered hard to fly, although one of its country's top-scoring aces got some of his kills while flying it.

5. One reason for its poor handling was that it had a higher wing loading than many of its contemporaries.

6. Another problem, at least initially, was that when it first went into service the pilots who flew it had previously flown airplanes that were much more docile.

7, Despite its shortcomings, it was probably one of its country's best fighters when hostilities began.

8. It was faster, at least at high altitude, and had longer range than the enemy fighters it faced.

9. Most of them were armed with machine guns, in varying configurations. A handful had cannons, and some had rockets.

10. A few thousand were produced.

11. Production pretty much stopped after about one year, mostly because the engine manufacturer (or possibly manufacturers) shifted to production of a similar engine for a different airplane.

12. Although it was fast, its rate of climb was inferior to that of the fighters it opposed, in part, perhaps, because it was heavier than the airplane it was designed to be an improvement of.

13. Over the course of the war, in which it served until the end, nearly half of them were shot down.

Last edited by Top_Gunn; 11-03-2019 at 01:09 PM. Reason: Changed clue 11 bexause I'm not sure of a minor detail
Old 11-04-2019, 05:51 AM
  #17739  
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Here's today's clue, which I think will help a lot.

Looking for the name of a warbird.

1. Designed and built early in a war. It was an improved version of an earlier airplane from the same manufacturer.

2. Its performance in one role was acceptable, but that role was not one that its country had much need for at the time, so it was given other roles, for which it was ill-suited.

3. It was flown by three services of the one country that used it.

4. It was a fighter. It was considered hard to fly, although one of its country's top-scoring aces got some of his kills while flying it.

5. One reason for its poor handling was that it had a higher wing loading than many of its contemporaries.

6. Another problem, at least initially, was that when it first went into service the pilots who flew it had previously flown airplanes that were much more docile.

7, Despite its shortcomings, it was probably one of its country's best fighters when hostilities began.

8. It was faster, at least at high altitude, and had longer range than the enemy fighters it faced.

9. Most of them were armed with machine guns, in varying configurations. A handful had cannons, and some had rockets.

10. A few thousand were produced.

11. Production pretty much stopped after about one year, mostly because the engine manufacturer (or possibly manufacturers) shifted to production of a similar engine for a different airplane.

12. Although it was fast, its rate of climb was inferior to that of the fighters it opposed, in part, perhaps, because it was heavier than the airplane it was designed to be an improvement of.

13. Over the course of the war, in which it served until the end, nearly half of them were shot down.

14. It was designed to be a high-altitude interceptor, but it found itself in a situation where that kind of airplane was not of much use.
Old 11-04-2019, 09:32 AM
  #17740  
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Originally Posted by Top_Gunn
Here's today's clue, which I think will help a lot.

Looking for the name of a warbird.

1. Designed and built early in a war. It was an improved version of an earlier airplane from the same manufacturer.

2. Its performance in one role was acceptable, but that role was not one that its country had much need for at the time, so it was given other roles, for which it was ill-suited.

3. It was flown by three services of the one country that used it.

4. It was a fighter. It was considered hard to fly, although one of its country's top-scoring aces got some of his kills while flying it.

5. One reason for its poor handling was that it had a higher wing loading than many of its contemporaries.

6. Another problem, at least initially, was that when it first went into service the pilots who flew it had previously flown airplanes that were much more docile.

7, Despite its shortcomings, it was probably one of its country's best fighters when hostilities began.

8. It was faster, at least at high altitude, and had longer range than the enemy fighters it faced.

9. Most of them were armed with machine guns, in varying configurations. A handful had cannons, and some had rockets.

10. A few thousand were produced.

11. Production pretty much stopped after about one year, mostly because the engine manufacturer (or possibly manufacturers) shifted to production of a similar engine for a different airplane.

12. Although it was fast, its rate of climb was inferior to that of the fighters it opposed, in part, perhaps, because it was heavier than the airplane it was designed to be an improvement of.

13. Over the course of the war, in which it served until the end, nearly half of them were shot down.

14. It was designed to be a high-altitude interceptor, but it found itself in a situation where that kind of airplane was not of much use.
Wow! I'm an idiot. I already knew that, of course; I just wasn't aware of how pervasive the problem is. The first handful of clues are enough to answer the question, if only something you don't assume something to be true when it isn't. However, I am also going to be very busy the next few days; so I don't think I'm able to take the lead right now. Enjoy. Thanks; Ernie P.
Old 11-04-2019, 09:48 AM
  #17741  
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I think I got it too but I'm also going to be away for the next few days.
Old 11-04-2019, 12:23 PM
  #17742  
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I'm still lost so if someone else has the answer, I'm curious as hell on this one
Old 11-04-2019, 12:43 PM
  #17743  
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OK, here's a bonus clue. A clue about a clue, in fact. Keep trying, Hydro, and anybody else out there who is following this. It is not a particularly obscure airplane.

Looking for the name of a warbird.

1. Designed and built early in a war. It was an improved version of an earlier airplane from the same manufacturer.

2. Its performance in one role was acceptable, but that role was not one that its country had much need for at the time, so it was given other roles, for which it was ill-suited.

3. It was flown by three services of the one country that used it.

4. It was a fighter. It was considered hard to fly, although one of its country's top-scoring aces got some of his kills while flying it.

5. One reason for its poor handling was that it had a higher wing loading than many of its contemporaries.

6. Another problem, at least initially, was that when it first went into service the pilots who flew it had previously flown airplanes that were much more docile.

7, Despite its shortcomings, it was probably one of its country's best fighters when hostilities began.

8. It was faster, at least at high altitude, and had longer range than the enemy fighters it faced.

9. Most of them were armed with machine guns, in varying configurations. A handful had cannons, and some had rockets.

10. A few thousand were produced.

11. Production pretty much stopped after about one year, mostly because the engine manufacturer (or possibly manufacturers) shifted to production of a similar engine for a different airplane.

12. Although it was fast, its rate of climb was inferior to that of the fighters it opposed, in part, perhaps, because it was heavier than the airplane it was designed to be an improvement of.

13. Over the course of the war, in which it served until the end, nearly half of them were shot down.

14. It was designed to be a high-altitude interceptor, but it found itself in a situation where that kind of airplane was not of much use.

15. The thing that makes clue 3 puzzling is this: The country for which this airplane flew had an unusual, perhaps even unique, way of dividing its armed forces into services.
Old 11-04-2019, 02:26 PM
  #17744  
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How about the TA-152?
Old 11-04-2019, 04:05 PM
  #17745  
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie
How about the TA-152?
There were some similarities, but the TA-152 came along very late in the war, and only a handful were produced. You'll get a bonus clue tomorrow, but first I have to think some about the upcoming clues. I have a pretty clear giveaway clue in mind, but I don't want to play that card too early.
Old 11-05-2019, 05:05 AM
  #17746  
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Here's today's clue and a bonus clue.

Looking for the name of a warbird.

1. Designed and built early in a war. It was an improved version of an earlier airplane from the same manufacturer.

2. Its performance in one role was acceptable, but that role was not one that its country had much need for at the time, so it was given other roles, for which it was ill-suited.

3. It was flown by three services of the one country that used it.

4. It was a fighter. It was considered hard to fly, although one of its country's top-scoring aces got some of his kills while flying it.

5. One reason for its poor handling was that it had a higher wing loading than many of its contemporaries.

6. Another problem, at least initially, was that when it first went into service the pilots who flew it had previously flown airplanes that were much more docile.

7, Despite its shortcomings, it was probably one of its country's best fighters when hostilities began.

8. It was faster, at least at high altitude, and had longer range than the enemy fighters it faced.

9. Most of them were armed with machine guns, in varying configurations. A handful had cannons, and some had rockets.

10. A few thousand were produced.

11. Production pretty much stopped after about one year, mostly because the engine manufacturer (or possibly manufacturers) shifted to production of a similar engine for a different airplane.

12. Although it was fast, its rate of climb was inferior to that of the fighters it opposed, in part, perhaps, because it was heavier than the airplane it was designed to be an improvement of.

13. Over the course of the war, in which it served until the end, nearly half of them were shot down.

14. It was designed to be a high-altitude interceptor, but it found itself in a situation where that kind of airplane was not of much use.

15. The thing that makes clue 3 puzzling is this: The country for which this airplane flew had an unusual, perhaps even unique, way of dividing its armed forces into services.

16. Some of them were used for ground attack, sometimes with machine guns in under-wing pods to increase their fire power. They were not particularly effective.

17. While judgments about looks are subjective, it seems safe to say that this was an attractive airplane. It has been the subject of RC modeling, including at least one ARF, plastic models, and a rubber-powered free-flight kit. It is a well-known airplane.
Old 11-05-2019, 10:58 AM
  #17747  
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I know you can't be referring to the Wildcat
Old 11-05-2019, 01:03 PM
  #17748  
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie
I know you can't be referring to the Wildcat
Right, it can't be. Keep trying; I'll have another clue tomorrow (which will completely rule out the Wildcat).
Old 11-06-2019, 05:12 AM
  #17749  
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Here's today's clue and a bonus clue.

Looking for the name of a warbird.

1. Designed and built early in a war. It was an improved version of an earlier airplane from the same manufacturer.

2. Its performance in one role was acceptable, but that role was not one that its country had much need for at the time, so it was given other roles, for which it was ill-suited.

3. It was flown by three services of the one country that used it.

4. It was a fighter. It was considered hard to fly, although one of its country's top-scoring aces got some of his kills while flying it.

5. One reason for its poor handling was that it had a higher wing loading than many of its contemporaries.

6. Another problem, at least initially, was that when it first went into service the pilots who flew it had previously flown airplanes that were much more docile.

7, Despite its shortcomings, it was probably one of its country's best fighters when hostilities began.

8. It was faster, at least at high altitude, and had longer range than the enemy fighters it faced.

9. Most of them were armed with machine guns, in varying configurations. A handful had cannons, and some had rockets.

10. A few thousand were produced.

11. Production pretty much stopped after about one year, mostly because the engine manufacturer (or possibly manufacturers) shifted to production of a similar engine for a different airplane.

12. Although it was fast, its rate of climb was inferior to that of the fighters it opposed, in part, perhaps, because it was heavier than the airplane it was designed to be an improvement of.

13. Over the course of the war, in which it served until the end, nearly half of them were shot down.

14. It was designed to be a high-altitude interceptor, but it found itself in a situation where that kind of airplane was not of much use.

15. The thing that makes clue 3 puzzling is this: The country for which this airplane flew had an unusual, perhaps even unique, way of dividing its armed forces into services.

16. Some of them were used for ground attack, sometimes with machine guns in under-wing pods to increase their fire power. They were not particularly effective.

17. While judgments about looks are subjective, it seems safe to say that this was an attractive airplane. It has been the subject of RC modeling, including at least one ARF, plastic models, and a rubber-powered free-flight kit. It is a well-known airplane.

18. It was powered by a liquid-cooled inline engine.

19. It looked a lot like the airplane it was designed as an improvement on.
Old 11-06-2019, 05:52 AM
  #17750  
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Clue 18 definitely narrows down the field. It only leaves the following WWII aircraft, that is if the plane is from WWII:
P-38, P-39, P-40 and P-51 for the American fighters
BF-109, BF-110, FW-190 and TA-152 for the Germans
Spitfire, Hurricane and Mosquito for the British
Machi 202 for the Italians
Arsenal VG-33, Cauldron-Renault CR.710, Detwoitine 520


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