mohr_dave

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Hey all, I decided to post this for three main reasons:
1 - If I don't, it will take WAY longer
2 - I'm going to need some input
3 - I thought it would be interesting for others with a Royal P-38 for how I've decided to install my radio gear

What am I doing? I have an old Royal P-38 that was originally done in the Virgina Marie scheme. This plane has never been flown and was (from what I've been told) hanging around a bar. it originally had OS 48 four stroke engines installed, which have been pulled.

As you can see from the photos, the gear is old and she hasn't been treated with much kindness, especially for never being put in the air. My plan is as follows:

- Strip the paint, at least as much as makes sense, and recover with Monokote - aluminum
- Install the gear so that everything isn't in the wing. I've already started this and will post some images. The elevator and rudder servos (HS-85s) are installed behind the inboard radiator coolers, a suggestion from Lightning Fan (thanks!). This provides a nice clean install, reduces the control rod lengths and makes for less gear in the wing
- On-board glow: I plan on using the simple switch set-up, with the servo mounted outside of the retract well in the boom and the switch mounted on inner wall of the boom in the fuel tank area, with a collar or ? for actuating the on-board glow
- Aileron servos: One per aileron mounted outboard in the wing
- Flap servo/s: Need a decision on this. Currently, I'm hoping to use one standard servo with a torque rod, if that doesn't work, then I'll probably split the flaps with two servos. Any input on this?
- Cockpit is already pretty detailed
- Engines: OS 50sx engines will be used. I plan on having JTec make up some mufflers to wrap-around the head and exit just in front of the firewall, pointing towards the ground
- Engine synchronization: It's planned, if for no other reason, to kill the "other" engine if there's an engine-out. I also hope to install a small gyro to help kick in rudder for that unplanned event. I need to see if the one I have is sufficient

That's about it, just a "short" list right? Oh, color scheme, no, I don't have one picked out yet. I am planning on keeping it simple though.

Dave

Edwin

My Feedback: (2)

This is just my opinion, but I would reconsider putting servos behind the radiators. I did that on my Wing Mfg P-38. The end result was a lot of led in the nose. About a 1 and a half lbs to balance. Mine, overall, was pretty heavy and wasnt fun. Glassed instead of mylar covering. Anything you can do to pre-place servos to keep the weight down helps a lot.
Edwin

aghost

My Feedback: (13)

I just did a project similar to yours except on an old gs P-40. You may know this, but just in case, there is TF Monokote aluminum and a TF Monokote aluminum flat finish. I have used both, but used the flat on the P-40. It took the heat gun cranked up almost all the way to get the flat to stick. However, I thought flat was easier to work with than the plain Monokote. I also used Coverite's Balsarite on the wood before laying down the Monokote. It helped immensely on the wood where I did not get all the paint sanded off.

Brian

Edit: I wrote "aluminum", but the TF name is actually "dove gray"

mohr_dave

My Feedback: (6)

Thanks guys. For the servos, it's amazing how much balsa block I removed to install the servos. Also, since I'm going with smaller HS-85s vs the old Airtronics full size servos and full length rods, it's removing over-all weight. I made the mistake of NOT weighing the old OS engines or checking the CG before I started this as well, so once I have the necessities installed, I'll be seeing where to place the on-board glow batteries, Rx batteries and anything else that doesn't have to be located elsewhere. I had hoped to get the throttle servos (Futaba S3117s) mounted to the firewall, but I won't have room from the looks of it. Monokote: Of COURSE I didn't think about two flavors! I have the standard Aluminum. I actually have another issue with the covering I'm trying to figure out. Unlike the elevator, the rudders were actually glued together. The wire "U" is glued in place and I really don't want to destroy the rudders (although I could just make new ones) trying to get the wire out. The issue is in covering the inside slot of the rudder for the horizontal stab clearance. I can't get an iron in there, so I'm not totally sure how to handle this part of the covering yet. Any thoughts???I'm a long way off from worrying about too much covering, but thought I'd at least try to get the tail feathers covered, which may have been the wrong place to think about starting.Dave

aghost

My Feedback: (13)

Covering the elevators on my P-40 was a problem like your rudders. I did not want to destroy them. I covered the bottom section first just going around the "corner" a little along the hinge line. Then I did the top section with cutouts for the hinges so the top section could go through the hinge line and cover the bottom section coming around the corner. Between Balsarite and moving the elevator up and down to get the heat gun in as far as possible, it seems to be holding up so far. Not a very clean way to do it, but...

mohr_dave

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Here's ashot of the rudder/elevator servos installed (sans the new control arms), the other side's image didn't turn out so well, I'll have to take another pic.

mohr_dave

My Feedback: (6)

Well, that didn't work. Attempt #2

Warbird Man

My Feedback: (95)

If your not aware, There is a electronic device called a "Twin Sync" by Wike RC that could be used on your engines. It controls the rpms of each engine so they run the same and it also is setup for optional glow drivers. I wouldn't rely on just a gyro in a P-38. The p-38 is probably the worst "twin" to try to recover from an engine out.

mohr_dave

My Feedback: (6)

Warbird Man, Yes, I am aware of Twin Sync, which is what I plan on using. I have a friend with the Ziroli P-38 and he indicated that one of the benefits is that it will cut the running engine in the event of an engine out, which "may" give you a chance at saving the plane.

I was able to get some work done on the tail last night. I've uploaded what the tail looks like now. I "think" I have sanded sufficiently for the covering to adhere but would like some input on using balsarite or anything else to ensure that the Monokote sticks to the surface. I did clean it with acrylic enamel reducer as well after sanding. I also left the paint on the inside surface of slot in the rudder for the horizontal stab clearance. I've left a little primer on the very edge surface as well, so this area should still be fuel-proof. Let me know if this is a bad idea or not.

Dave

aghost

My Feedback: (13)

Seems like mine looked about like that when I gave up sanding. Try doing some test pieces. It took me about 3 tries with different combinations of heat and balsarite before I got the covering to stick satisfactorily.

Brian

mohr_dave

My Feedback: (6)

Thanks Brian, I'll do some testing and see how it goes....

Dave

mohr_dave

My Feedback: (6)

Edwin,
     Out of curiosity, what's the AUW of your Wing P-38?  I built their P-39 and found the plans to be pretty "old school" with 1/8" slab sides.  It's a great flyer (my avatar) but I do plan on doing a second one later with 1/16" wider (each side) formers with 1/16" sides and corrected fuselage shaping to see if I can put one on a diet. 

Thanks,

Dave

Edwin

My Feedback: (2)

I dont have it anymore, didnt last long. But I think it was around 13 1/12 lbs with Thunder Tiger .45's. Power wasnt a problem. That was my first glass job. I thought the glass work wasnt too heavy at the time, but in hind sight, it probably didnt help with the weight. I had too many servos behind the cg and there were not that many small servos available at the time. I think a lot could be done to lighten the wing mfg P-38. Its about the same size as the Royal.
Edwin

Lightning Fan

My Feedback: (17)

Dave - you have to tell them about the saga of acquiring this airplane - that is the charm in the whole thing. It is not good enough to say that it was hanging in a bar. You have to tell them about ... The Idiot.

mohr_dave

My Feedback: (6)

Do I really have to?????

Do you guys want to read what it took to get this plane?  I'll give the "very" short version and let me know, I'll give the long version.

It was purchased on eBay, due to some "interesting" circumstances, involving - as Lightning Fan put it, the Idiot, courts, jail, some internet searching to find the guy and about 6 months, I was able to get the plane...Finally.


Dave

scale dail

My Feedback: (8)

Cool thread!!!!! I just found it. My Royal P-38 is over 20 years old and still hanging on. It is getting very tired. I may rebuild a few parts of it latter this year. Good luck with yours! I have 4 Royal P-38's in different stages of completion. "Virginia Marie" was the decals in the kit. I'll be watching your progress. My next Royal P-38 will need much rebuilding!

Lightning Fan

My Feedback: (17)

Come ON, Dave! At least the part about the bicycle boxes, the stolen WW2 memorabilia, the part where you convinced me to go in with you for the "completed FW190 and TF Zero kit" ... oh, well, guys if he does not spill the beans, you have missed an awesome story. Oh, OH yeah! And the part about "can't get the retracts to retract"!! So much fun!

Lightning Fan

My Feedback: (17)

Up a couple of posts is a comment about how hard it is to get Dove Gray Flat Monokote to go on right. Man, I can second that. I put it on a Wing Mfg P-39 (RIP) that Dave made me build, and holy cow is that stuff awful. The gloss version was completely different. Dave - you have the gloss Aluminum, not the Chrome. You are OK with what you have.

mohr_dave

My Feedback: (6)

Oh, so, in addition to LF's comments, Ithought I'd post what Iplan on doing for markings. The plane is "Battle Axe" from the 431st - Satan's Angels - unit marking 114, flown by Capt. Thomas E. Martin. Mark at www.markkarvon.com did a really nice digital "painting"of this ship, which is how Ifound it. LF also has more info on these planes than most, so I'll be bugging him for some more details. This will be a flyer - if all goes well - and I am not putting huge efforts into the details on this one. I'm not going to put rivets and panel lines on, at least I'm not planning on it.

Dave

mohr_dave

My Feedback: (6)

Scale Dail,
     Thanks for the info, THAT explains the VM markings.  Um, ouch!  Hopefully you can rebuild your "sad" P-38.  Can you tell me what your AUW is on your plane/s?  I'm trying to see what I should be shooting for or know when I have a lead sled.

     I've also been doing a LOT of reading on applying MoneyKote, again.  I honestly really have never had a problem with it sticking, only with the idiot behind the iron getting it laid down correctly.  Oh crap, that's me!  Anyhow, in all of the posts I've read about how horrible it is to get it to stick properly, I have yet to read where anyone has posted that they use the wood pecker on the balsa.  Is this something that is missed or just missed in the posts, any thoughts?  I ALWAYS use the wood pecker and wonder if that isn't part of why I haven't had a problem.  Also, a bunch of guys swear by BalsaRite and a bunch more swear ABOUT it.  I've decided for the tail feathers at least, I'm going to try hair spray over the balsa/paint, then the wood pecker and then cover and see how it goes. 

     I'll wait a bit before posting the "story" on how I got this thing.  I think I need to put it all down in Word first and make sure I have all of the details again, looking back, it really is pretty funny/sad/interesting/insane...

Dave

frets24

My Feedback: (15)

Lets see here.....A bar, an idiot, courts, jail, WWII memorabilia, a "quest" and a happy ending. This has all the makings of a great story....Of course scores of us want to hear ALL about it!!! Those that don't can skip over it

scale dail

My Feedback: (8)

Waiting for this great story........

My Royal P-38 with out flaps fly's just great on two OS .45FSR's and it wieghs 13 pounds. I've had 3 engine outs. On the first I chickened out and cut the good one. THAT resulted in a crash out in the sticks. After a rebuild of the plane I had two more failers, but keeped the power on and the speed up, just enough to keep it straight and around the pattern back to the runway. Turns out I had a bad batch of fuel. No more engine probs. Those engines are as old as the plane. Yours will fly REALLY fast with the .50's. Watch that tail that it doesnt rip off.

I've been in the hobby since the 70's and the Royal P-38 was the cream of the crop back then. You had to be a good builder and a good flyer to deal with it. It has always been my favorite even now.

mohr_dave

My Feedback: (6)

Scale Dail,
Thanks for the info on the weight. I really like the 50sx engines, they have gobs more power than the 46s. <o></o>

Okay, so, here goes the story, LF - feel free to jump in on this as I am sure I am going to leave some entertaining bit out that you haven't forgotten.

This thing was up on a 3 day auction. Apparently the "idiot" as we have referred to him, bought a bunch of planes at an estate sale hoping to make a killing. Well, he apparently didn't understand the world of USEDRCplanes and he didn't even sell a bunch of what he bought, well, at least not during the auctions, but I'll get to that. The plane that I bought originally had the 48 FSengines and in the pictures looked a little rough, but being the eternal optimist figured what the heck. I bid on and won the bird. I sent the guy a note to confirm how he should ship it and that is when Irealized he had absolutely no clue about the planes. The plane is equipped with SpringAire retracts, which, since it had been hanging for "some time", had no air in the canister and were in the down position. I explained this to him and said that there should be four screws per wheel and just remove them. This is the start of where LF and I gave him the nickname. He couldn't figure these out. This went back and forth for about a week and I really wasn't in any hurry, and wanted the plane to arrive one piece so a few extra days wasn't a big deal, or so I thought.

Over the next week or weeks, I tried to get in touch with this guy, who went radio silent. No calls returned, no e-mail returned, NOTHING!!That's when I entered a PayPal complaint and they gave me my money back. But...I didn't WANTthe money!!!!!!! I wanted the plane. So, at this point, LF and I are a bit annoyed and me more than ever. I forget if it was LF or me that figured out that this guy was also selling WWIImemorabilia and was arrested, for selling stolen WW IImemorabilia, of course. After a short search on the net, I found the court case and files and the detective on the case and called him. Now, this is where it gets a little humorous. I called the police department and asked to speak to the detective and he answers and asked how I found him. He's a detective for cyring out loud!!! No wonder our courts are a mess. Anyhow, he just tells me a very short bit that this guy is a bad egg and be glad that I got my money and I should walk away. Well, this just makes me want the plane that much more. I figure out where the guy's mother lives - yep, another internet search - and try to leave a message there. A few days later I get a message from the idiot saying if I still want the planes, he will sell them to me for the auction price. Oh, sorry, yes. LFbought some of this guy's other stuff, you can fill in here because the only thing Iremember is the Focke Wulf, Zero parts or plans and some other misc junk. He also tells me has has a red plane he called the Red Baron and an engine. Fine, but I wouldn't pay him until I received the plane at this point. The detective did tell me that the planes were not part of the investigation. I won't go into what happened with him because there are two or three sides to every story and I honestly didn't follow up to see what happened in the end.

Anyhow, more radio silence shortly after. What was happening is the courts were adding charges to him, and putting him in jail until he was bailed out or made bond or whatever gets one out of jail during an investigation. During this time, I even figured out who is attorney was and left a message for him. At this point, it was more than just about getting the plane, it had become a quest.

This is about three months into this. LF, sound about right?

Anyhow, he gets out again and asks if I still want the plane and if LFwants his. Duh!

He STILLcan't figure out how to get the retracts up and about this time, he tells me he now has to get to his mothers to get the planes. It just keeps getting better.

Anyhow, this is just a bunch of phone tag at this point to get him motivated to ship the stuff. He FINALLYships the planes. In what? Yes, bicycle boxes! The P-38 arrived in two boxes, one with the booms and the other with the wing. Oh, yeah. LF’s stuff came as well, all mixed together. The “complete” planes? Well, the FW didn’t appear to be too bad at first glance. The Zero, um, what Zero? The Red Baron? It’s a Clipped Wing Cub. I actually just finished cleaning all of the covering glue off of the wing and fuse on that today as well.<o></o>

Lightning Fan, what did I miss? <o></o>

<o></o>

scale dail

My Feedback: (8)

Yikes! You are so lucky to have gotten the plane. And in reasonable shape too!

mohr_dave

My Feedback: (6)

Okay, since at least a few of you have flown one or two of these things, other than making sure Ikeep the weight as low as possible, which since it's built is mostly out of my control, what are the other major pitfalls Ineed to be aware of?

Have you guys done anything to the tail mounting?

Are the landing gear blocks strong enough if done per plan?

How have you mounted the air fill for the retracts to keep the nose "clean" without the adapter sitting in the open in the pod? I planned on installing mine under the cockpit, it's one screw to unbolt it.

Are there "good" wheels you suggest to minimize the change in CG when raising/lowering the gear?

If there was one thing that you would change on your P-38, what would it be?


Thanks!

Dave