Fullsize P-47 instruments panel size
 

Hello everyone,

I'm trying to answer a (seemingly) very simple question: what's the size of the P-47 instruments panel?
Obviously the reason I'm asking this question is because I'm building a P-47 (the kit by Top Flite), and I'd like to build a detailed cockpit for it. However I find it very hard to find out the size of such a cockpit. Specifically the width of the instruments panel.
I know that the scale of my kit is 1/5.75 (derived from the fullsize P-47 wingspan of 12.42m and the kit wingspan of 2.16m), so if I knew the cockpit size for the fullsize airplane I'd be set.
One thing that I noticed is that the P-47 instruments panel changed a lot between different variants. So, to be precise, I'm interested in the size for a D-30 variant.

Checking all of the drawings and photos that I have, I came up with a scale insturments panel width of 137mm, translating to a fullsize width of 787.75mm (31"). However this sounds both too small and too big at the same time: if you look at a photo of the interior of the P-47 cockpit, you'll see that the outer supports for the rudder pedals more or less line up with the outer edges of the instruments panel. Now, try sitting with the outher side of your feet 31" apart... That doesn't seem like a very comfortable position. So this should indicate that the cockpit panel may be smaller than this.
On the other hand, if I print a paper outline of the instruments panel at 137mm and place it on the relevant fuselage former, the panel seems too small compared to the drawings that I have.

So, to solve this, does anyone know the actual width of the fullsize instruments panel for a P-47 D-30? Or, alternatively, does anyone know the exact size of some of the instruments in the panel? With this latter information I can infer the width of the panel in some of the photos that I have.

Oh, and going to a museum to measure the panel myself is not an option, unfortunately. There's only one P-47 here in Italy, but it's in storage, so no chance of seeing it, much less taking measurements in the cockpit.

Andrea.

I had the opportunity to climb into the cockpit a P47-D about 4 years. I did not measure the panel, but I do recall it feeling very roomy. I'm not sure if these will be of any help to you, but I included the photos I snapped of the cockpit.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2157596 http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2157597 http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2157598 http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2157599

You can see that the outer frame of the rudder pedal mounts are just inboard of the instrument panel (like you described), but the pedals themselves are quite wide. You can also see that the wear marks on the floor are more towards the inner edge of the pedal, so, the seating position might not be as uncomfortable as you think.

Hope this helps ...

You may find this website useful .

P-47 Cockpit Cockpit 360 visual tour from the Airforce Museum.

http://www.nmusafvirtualtour.com/med...20Cockpit.html

http://www.nmusafvirtualtour.com/med...20Cockpit.html

Ray

Andrea,
From my documents I put together this simple sketch for you... Hope this helps.

Regards,

John


http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2157686

Thank you very much!

@aymodeler: thank you for the feedback and photos. If the panel is somewhat smaller than I thought (see John's reply) and if the pedals are wide, perhaps the pilot position is not as uncomfortable as I thought. Oh, and photos are always welcome :D

@bunsen: I hadn't thought of checking museum websites, as I didn't think that someone would provide a 360° view of a cockpit. That's a great source of information, thank you! By the way, both links seem identical to me. Am I missing something?

@john534: Thank you, that's exactly what I was hoping to find. If you don't mind me asking, where did you get those figures from? If it's some book or publicly available source, then it may come in handy in the future, both to me and to everyone else doing a P-47.

Anyway, I printed a paper template of the instruments panel to the scale size (27.5" / 5.75 = 4.78" = 121.5mm) using a template that I already had (even though it lacked size information, so I had no idea how big it had to be). Then I placed fuselage former F3 and the canopy one on top of the other (leaving a gap to account for the thickness of the sheeting), and finally played around with the position of the panel. The former should be of the correct size and shape (according to the 3-views that I have), but the canopy may not be 100% scale, so I may have to find (or make) a more scale canopy later.
Attached is a picture of the result. I'll also attach a few photos that I used as a reference. Opinions? Does it look reasonably close?

Andrea.

To my eye, the template you printed up looks a bit small. In the photos, the tapered portion near the top seems to stick up above the natural curve of the fuselage and actually comes closer to the forward canopy frame. But that is just eyeball accurate, so take with a grain of salt :)

Well, I can tell you that the width of the template is actually 121.5mm (well, perhaps not so sure about the .5 part, but I'm certain about the 121 :D ). If the figure reported by John is accurate, then the size of the panel should be correct. And the former seems to match the 3-views that I had blown up to the kit size. So I don't know...

As for the position, that's a doubt I have as well. The photos that I posted seems to suggest that the panel should be higher, but when checking the 360° posted by bunsen one can see that there's a complete fuse former behind the instruments panel. And it looks to me like the top corners of the panel more or less line up with the outer contour of this former. Back to the photos that I posted, one can just about see the top of such a former behind the panel. When taking into account the perspective distortion, it seems to me like the corners of the panel do indeed line up with the edge of this former.
So I suspect that this should be the correct placement, but again, I'm open to suggestions.

And, by the way, I'm also open to suggestions about improving my english ;)

Andrea.

Andrea,
After taking a closer look, I tend to agree with your current assessment after all. The plane I photographed is in a museum that is not too far from me and they have open cockpit days where they let visitors climb into the cockpits of many of the planes (none coming up in the near future though). I know it won't help you now, but I will let you know the next time they have one, and if you have other questions, I will try to get the info for you.

By the way, your English is near perfect as far as I can tell ... I would never have guessed you were not a native English speaker :)

Andrea,
I signed on here for the $50 annual fee...

http://www.aircorpslibrary.com/

Absolutely worth every penny to me as it has everything I could want for my current builds, im sure you would like it as well.

John

Thank you very much aymodeler. I wish I could have an aviation museum doing open cockpit days, or even just one with a P-47, but, as I said, no P-47s on display here in Italy...
Well, at least I'll be ready for the following build, a Reggiane Re-2005, since no complete planes of this type exist anywhere.

Andrea.

Great, that's exactly what I was hoping for! I'll subscribe for sure.

Thank you very much.

Andrea.