Panel lines and rivets
 

can someone please explain there method from start to finish ? how do you lay out panel lines and raised rivets ? I have seen this on many warbirds but have never really known how to go about accomplishing this I am new to building warbirds and would like to add this detail to my next project ( a yellow Zero ) my skills have grown by leaps and bounds over the past two years and basically I would love to build this but also plan on taking allot of time and care to do it right .This has been my dream plane ever since I was a kid and would like this to be as close to scale as possible in every way. I have recently picked up the airframe and have just about completed glassing the wing and have reached the point were I would really like some instruction . any help or how to article would be greatly appreciated and welcome

thanks

Mike

RE: Panel lines and rivets
 

Most of the tricks I learn come from this website and it is by far the best Ive found! It will explain in detail everything your looking for.

http://www.tompierce.net/190/index.htm

RE: Panel lines and rivets
 

simple method.

Do a lite prime coat. Preferrably have that coat ready for paint on it. Draw the panel lines on the plane with a pencil. Take some chartpack tape and lay it over the panel lines you drew. Spray primer over the tape in light coats. Peel the tape off and then hit the lines with some light sanding to take the edges off. For the rivets......flush- use a brass tube and intall it in a soder iron and burn the mark in place. Will look like a flush rivet. For raised rivet you use a syringe with glue and put a drop in place and let dry. Then hit with prime.

Its easy to do but takes alot of time.

RE: Panel lines and rivets
 

Couldnt have said it better...;)

RE: Panel lines and rivets
 

That posses another question , on a zero was it a raised or flush rivet ?

RE: Panel lines and rivets
 

great link buddy thanks lots of valuable information and allot more then I asked for but needed THANKS !!

RE: Panel lines and rivets
 

A syringe with glue ? wood glue I assume , but how do you keep the drops uniform ? sorry for all the dumb questions guys but I really do appreciate the help and your experience

RE: Panel lines and rivets
 

Glue is upto you. Remember you are going to glue ontop of either true fiberglass fuse or a wood fuse that you fiberglass yourself so its going to be a smooth paintable surface.

Most folks I've seen use elmers white glue. Also you can use flat brass for your template. Simply drill evenly spaced holes in it and line it up on the panel line. It can be used for both the flush or raised rivet. Just remember that rivets on planes are not uniform. They are not always perfectly straight either.

As for the Zero....Not sure. It may be like many US planes where it changed depending on the model and year it was built. Just do a google image search of the specific version you are looking for.

RE: Panel lines and rivets
 

Not a problem, Good Luck!

RE: Panel lines and rivets
 

They look like flush rivets to me. Check out the pic.

RE: Panel lines and rivets
 

Sometimes that is misleading, Airplanes in a Museum. Many times to keep the airplanes airworthy the whole set of rivets are exchanged. That means better (and flush) rivets will be used. Better to look at pictures back in time.
Good example is the Hellcat, hard to find a airworthy F6F with raised rivets on the fuselage. They had raised rivets on the fuse...

OOOPPs almost did not see the Hellcat nice legs...

RE: Panel lines and rivets
 

Easier than a syringe, is take a constant toothed comb (CVS, Walgreens, Wally World, etc.) and remover every other tooth. Now make a little pool of glue big enough to dunk the length of the comb in, now, holding the comb vertically, roll the comb over over the panel lines you drew. Now you have rivets that are evenly spaced and all the same height. Repeat as neccesary.

RE: Panel lines and rivets
 

They look pretty flush to me.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...-4_Hellcat.jpg

RE: Panel lines and rivets
 

An old CA bottle with a fine or small plastic tube inserted works well for rivets and is less painful to use than a syringe. The slightest presure on the bottle will puff out a small rivet. If you lay the tip on the surface horizontally will produce a different style or shape rivet than if you come from above. After drying the rivets shirnk but in my opinon or too round or tall. I usally come back across the top of them and lightly block sand the roundness off giving a a flat raised look.

RE: Panel lines and rivets
 

Cool technique

RE: Panel lines and rivets
 

Ive never been able to keep a ca bottle that clean , let alone clean enough to reuse , but I like this method

So what the verdict guys raised or flush rivets on a zero all my documentation point to both and i have seen both but wich one is accurate ?

RE: Panel lines and rivets
 

Hey Zero-322,

The guy to ask is AluminumOvercast. He is finishing up a Zero that he detailed with full panel lines and rivets. It's just awesome. Every time he brings it to the field we all just drool. If I remember correctly he found they used both.

Here's a post of his work. Look at post 218.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_64...9/key_/tm.htm#

Joe





www.thecaterhamproject.com

RE: Panel lines and rivets
 

Yeah I know I seen that I've been drooling ever since, this is the look I am aspiring to get to , but maybe its just me but the pic I've seen of actual zeros seem to me that the wing is fabric covered or fabric looking am I right ? either way I've been hard pressed to make out any detail on any documentation or period photos I have that show any rivets present on the wing can someone please verify

RE: Panel lines and rivets
 

Hey Zero-322,

The guy to ask is AluminumOvercast. He is finishing up a Zero that he detailed with full panel lines and rivets. It's just awesome. Every time he brings it to the field we all just drool. If I remember correctly he found they used bot


Quite so the man is obvoiusly VERY talented genious !

RE: Panel lines and rivets
 

No fabric on the wing of a Zero. It sometimes appears that way due to the "oil canning" of the very thin guage metal used by the Japanes to keep the weight of the Zero to a minimum. This is true of many Japanese fighters of the period. What I'm finding in my research on the Hellcat is that both raised and flush rivets were used and it's probably the same deal with the Zero. How to find out which ones are raised and which are flush? Good question, wish I could answer it!

RE: Panel lines and rivets
 

On my Texan, in order to keep the raised rivets consistent, I laser cut vinyl rivets which were stuck on the glassed surface. Then I put my drop of glue on the vinyl. The glue will spread out to the edge of the vinyl and no further. Worked good but is more work as you essentially have to rivet the airplane twice. Simple stuck on vinyl rivets painted over do a fair job of simulating flush rivets by the way.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b376/CVEICH/WINGB.jpg

RE: Panel lines and rivets
 

Keep your eye open for a glass jar that has an airtight lid, something that might come out of the kitchen or frig. Something large enough to hold an empty CA bottle and 4 or 5 tips. Fill it with acetone, when a tip gets really clogged throw it in the jar of acetone and take a clean one out. Just be sure to blow or dry the acetone off of the clean tip before you put it on the bottle. If the CA hits the acetone it will kick and clog the the clean tip. I buy my CA in 8 oz bottles and refill my old 2 oz bottles so it is important to keep the tips in good shape.

RE: Panel lines and rivets
 

Makes perfect sense and your right finding out which ones go were ? that is a challenge in itself , on plastic models which many use as reference, it seems all most all of them seem to be of the raised variety, however period photos not that we can tell much detail from them seem to show a different story

I do know that the wing skin on the M5 was beefed up and thickened to handle a greater dive speed , a flush rivet on the wing would provide better air o dynamics ? this of course is theory on my part

RE: Panel lines and rivets
 

Got to agree with Chad that the Zero probably had both. Some rivets do appear raised and some definitely look flush. The Zero pictures I have are from Chino Airport. It's probably one of the best examples we can use for our scaling detail. I would think when they restored her they tried to keep her as original as possible.

Incidently I have a YA Zero that I just finished glassing, ready for paint. I usually paint outside so it will be spring before I face the flush or raised rivet problem.

RE: Panel lines and rivets
 

Here's another good shot of the wing and side of the fuselage. Again they look flush but was that the original type??