RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz
 

Ok Ernie, here we go again....
How about Nguyen Van Coc? Of the North Vietnamese Air Force?
Had to think about whom the French fought to find this Ace. Good question as you're correct that not many give the N. Vietnamese pilots their due as good pilots.
Thanks, Zipp.

RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz
 

Whoops, I guess I shoulda hit 'Refresh"!http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f.../msn/72_72.gif

RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz
 

Bingo!!! You hit it, deatonbt. And, you're up. How many countries could have their highest scoring ace as an "unknown"? Thanks; Ernie P.


Question: What ace do I describe?

Clues:

(1) He seems to be one of those forgotten pilots.

(2) His country’s highest scorer.

(3) He spent most of his childhood near an airbase, which kindled an interest in aviation.

(4) When he was five, his father and uncle were killed fighting the French.

(5) After his father was killed, his mother moved the family. She settled near an airfield, where his interest in aviation was kindled.

(6) He normally flew as a wingman.

(7) He and five members of his formation were shot down in a cleverly devised, and well known, enemy trap. Enemy fighters used call signs, and flew in a formation, mimicking a group of fighter bombers. This pilot and his fellows intercepted, thinking they would encounter fighter bombers and instead ran into fighters. All five of the shot down pilots bailed out safely.

(8) Of 120 trainees selected for advanced training, only he and six others graduated.

(9) He was assigned as a flight instructor, so that his experience would not be lost.

(10) One of his students also reached ace status.

(11) Almost all of his combat flying was in a defensive posture.

Answer: Nguyen Van Coc







In this Vietnamese name, the family name is Nguyen. According to Vietnamese custom, this person should properly be referred to by the given name Coc.

Nguyễn Văn Cốc (born 1943) was a North Vietnamese MiG-21 PFL fighter ace of the Vietnamese People's Air Force's (also known as the North Vietnamese Air Force) 921st Fighter Regiment.

Coc was born in the Viet Yen district of the province of Bac Giang in French Indochina, north of Hanoi. When he was 5 years old, his father, Nguyen Van Bay, who was Chairman of the Viet Minh in the district, and his uncle, also a member of the Viet Minh, were killed by the French. Fearing further trouble with the French, his mother relocated the family, which led to him spending the rest of his childhood near Chu air base, which kindled an interest in aircraft.

He attended Ngo Si Lien school in Bac Giang and upon completion of his schooling, enlisted in the Quan Chung Khong Quan (Vietnamese People's Air Force, VPAF) in 1961 and underwent his initial training at Cat Bi Airbase in Haiphong. He subsequently spent four years undergoing pilot training in the Soviet Union at the Batajsk and Krasnodov Soviet Air Force bases. Of the 120 trainees who were dispatched in Nguyens’s draft to the Soviet Union, he was one of the seven who graduated as a MiG-17 pilot.

After a brief spell back in North Vietnam serving with the 921st Sao Do (Red Star) Fighter Regiment, he returned to the Soviet Unon and underwent conversion training to the MiG-21 in a two-seat Mig-21U, before returning to the 921st Fighter Regiment in June 1965. He began operational flying in December 1965.

On 2 January 1967, he was among a group of pilots who fell into the trap set up by F-4 Phantom IIs of the United States Air Force's 8th Tactical Fighter Wing (Operation Bolo). The American fighters flew to Hanoi using the same flight patterns and radio callsigns as F-105 Thunderchief fighter-bomber formations. As a result, the North Vietnamese fliers encountered interceptors armed with air-to-air missiles instead of fighter-bombers loaded with bombs. Coc was among the five Vietnamese pilots shot down, with all ejecting safely.

Flying a MIG-21PF, he normally served as a wingman. He scored all his victories using the heat-seeking R-3S Atoll missile.

In 1969, he was awarded a Huy Hiew medal for each of his nine claimed kills. The end of the American Operation Rolling Thunder bombing campaign on October 31, 1968 removed the opportunity for further air combat. In that year, he was transferred from operational duties so that his valuable combat experience could be put to use in training new pilots. Among the pilots he trained was Nguyen Duc Soat, who obtained five kills in 1972.

After the war, he remained with the Vietnamese National Air Force, retiring with the rank of Chief Inspector in 2002 after a period of bad health.

Nine air-to-air combat kills of United States aircraft were credited to him during the Vietnam War. Of these, seven have currently been acknowledged by the United States Air Force. While sometimes U.S. forces may have attributed aircraft losses to surface-to-air missiles, since it was considered "less embarrassing", in fact there was often doubt about cause of the loss. Coc also claimed an F-4 Phantom and F-105 Thunderchief in November and 17 December 1967 but there are no corresponding American losses.

The following kills, while flying the MiG-21, have been credited to Van Coc by the VPAF (aka NVAF):

30 April 1967: USAF F-105D piloted by Robert A. Abbott of the USAF 355th TFW. This was his first air victory and occurred while he was acting as a wingman to Nguyen Ngoc Do, who also downed an aircraft.

23 August 1967: USAF F-4D (serial number 66-0238) of Major Charles R. Tyler (pilot) and Captain R. N. Sittner (WSO) of the 555th Tactical Fighter Squadron. Tyler was captured and Sittner was killed.

9 October 1967: USAF F-105D piloted by Clements.

18 November 1967: USAF F-105F of Oscar Dardeau (pilot) and Edward Leinhoff (WSO).

20 November 1967: USAF F-105D piloted by Butler.

3 February 1968: USAF F-102A piloted by 1st Lt. Wallace L. Wiggins of the 509th FIS/405th FIW.

23 February 1968: F-4D of Guttersen (pilot) and Donald (WSO).

7 May 1968: On the afternoon of 7 May 1968, three flights of MiG-21 fighters from the VPAF 921st Regiment were flying towards Tho Xuan Air Base, as part of redeployment in response to the U.S. bombing halt above the 19th Parallel. The flights were led by Dang Ngoc Ngu, Nguyen Van Minh and Nguyen Van Coc. Due to the lack of coordination between the different sections of the VPAF 921st Fighter Regiment and the ground-based air-defense forces, the MiG-21 flights were mistakenly identified as U.S. fighter-bombers, so North Vietnamese anti-aircraft artillery fired on them. Moments later, Ngu also mistook an escorting flight of MiG-21 fighters flown by Nguyen Dang Kinh and Nguyen Van Lung for U.S. fighters, so he responded by dropping his fuel tanks to prepare for an attack. Ngu then aborted the attack when he realized they were North Vietnamese.

Later, Ngu and Coc arrived over the skies of Do Luong, north-east of Vinh, and they made three circuits over the area when they were told that enemy aircraft were detected coming from the sea, and they were real U.S. fighters. The U.S. flight detected were a formation of five F-4B Phantom II from Fighter Squadron 92 (VF-92), USS Enterprise, led by Lieutenant Commander Ejnar S. Christensen. Over North Vietnamese airspace, a U.S. Navy EKA-3A electronic warfare aircraft tried to jam North Vietnamese communications but it failed, so Nhu’s flight of MiG-21 fighters were able to be guided towards their target by ground controllers unhindered.

While trying to engage the VPAF MiGs, the F-4B formation became separated due to confusion in radar control. In the ensuing dogfight, two AIM-7 missiles were fired by the U.S. Navy fighters but both rounds missed. Ngu then noticed two F-4B Phantoms about 5 kilometers (3.1 mi) to starboard, but he could not get into a suitable firing position. Coc was right behind Ngu at the time, but he wanted to disengage from the fight as his aircraft was running low on fuel. However, Coc quickly changed his mind after he spotted an F-4B ahead of him at an altitude of 2,500 meters (8,200 ft). Coc immediately gave chase to the F-4B, which were flying out to sea, and successfully scored a hit after he fired two R-3S Atoll missiles from an altitude of 1,500 meters (4,900 ft). The F-4B Phantom II burst into flames and crashed into the sea at 6:44 pm..

The action gave the VPAF their first aerial victory over the airspace above the Military Zone IV of North Vietnam and gave Nguyen Van Coc his seventh aerial victory. The U.S. Navy confirmed that the downed F-4B had been BuNo 151485, callsign Silver Kite 210, of VF-92 launched from Enterprise. The pilot of BuNo 151485, Lieutenant Commander Ejnar S. Christenson, and his Radar Intercept Officer, Lieutenant (jg) Worth A. Kramer were able to eject safely from their aircraft before impact, and were recovered a short time later.

December 1969: A USAF AQM-34 Firebee unmanned aerial vehicle.

20 December 1969: A USAF AQM-34 Firebee. It is possible that due to Vietnamese pilots being unfamiliar with these drones, this could have been a OV-10 Bronco whose two crewmembers perished when it was shot down in the same area.

RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz
 

In keeping with the idea of a pilot, there is a famous photograph of a pilot holding up his hands showing the number of his kills. Who is the pilot?

RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz
 

Isn't it amazing how often we figure out the answer... just about the time some one else posts the answer? It's happened to me more than once. Thanks; Ernie P.

RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz
 

Valencia..USNavy

RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz
 

Alexander Vraciu

jess

RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz
 

Jess you got it. It is Alexander Vraciu.

I had thought that it would last at least a few posts with clues since there probably wouldn't be a reference for a picture. The reason why I picked it is that I knew of it from seeing the picture in a book, and it reminded me of something from years ago. The book is "Clash of the Carriers" by Barrett Tillman. It is about the personalities and tactics of the Marianas Turkey Shoot.

RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz
 

Time for a new question, I think.

What aircraft?

1) it was a floatplane that was hoped to be able to outrun enemy land-based fighters

RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz
 

A6M2-N Rufe

RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz
 

A6M2-N is not what I was thinking of. I need to be a bit more specific

What aircraft?

1) it was a floatplane that was hoped to be able to outrun enemy land-based fighters
2) it was a 2 seat reconnaissance plane
3) its innovative features didn't quite work in practice

RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz
 

Curtiss SC-1/SC-2 SeaHawk, but only single seater.

RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz
 

What aircraft?

1) it was a floatplane that was hoped to be able to outrun enemy land-based fighters
2) it was a 2 seat reconnaissance plane
3) its innovative features didn't quite work in practice
4) it had a two-row radial engine and contra-rotating props (these were working just fine)

RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz
 

I guess that means it's NOT the<div style="text-align: center"><font color="#000000" size="4" face="Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Kawanishi N1K1 "Rex"

a Kawanishi E15K Shiun perhaps</font></div>

RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz
 

Just backing up makmov. That's what I get for being slow. Thanks; Ernie P.

The Kawanishi E15K Shiun (紫雲, "Violet Cloud") was a single-engined Japanese reconnaissance floatplane of World War II. The Allied reporting name for the type was "Norm" after Squadron Leader Norman O. Clappison of the RAAF, a member of the Allied Technical Air Intelligence Unit (ATAIU).

In 1939 the Imperial Japanese Navy instructed the Kawanishi Aircraft Company to develop a two-seat high-speed reconnaissance floatplane, which was required to have sufficient performance to escape interception by land based fighters[1]. It was planned to equip a new class of cruisers, intended to act as a flagship for groups of submarines, operating six of the new floatplanes to find targets. The first of the new cruisers, Ōyodo was also ordered in 1939.

Kawanishi designed a single-engined low-wing monoplane, powered by a 1,460 hp (1,090 kW) Mitsubishi MK4D Kasei 14 14-cylinder radial driving two Contra-rotating two-bladed propellers, the first installation of contra-rotating propellers produced in Japan, while a laminar flow airfoil section was chosen to reduce drag. It had a single main float under the fuselage and two stabilising floats under the wing. The stabilising floats were designed to retract into the wing, while the central float was designed to be jettisoned in case of emergency, giving a sufficient increase in speed (estimated as approximately 50 knots (90 km/h)) to escape enemy fighters.

The first prototype of Kawanishi's design, designated E15K1 in the Navy's short designation system made its maiden flight on 5 December 1941. Five more prototypes followed during 1941-42. Problems were encountered with the retractable stabilising floats, resulting in several accidents when the floats could not be lowered for landing, and the system was eventually abandoned, with the stabilising floats being fixed, and a more powerful Mitsubishi MK4S Kasei 24 engine fitted to compensate for the increased drag.

Despite these problems, the E15K1 was ordered into limited production as the Navy Type 2 High-speed Reconnaissance Seaplane Shiun Model 11. Six were sent to Palau in the South Pacific, but these were quickly shot down by Allied fighters, as the jettisonable float failed to separate on demand (although subjected to wind tunnel testing, the float separation system had never been tested on the actual aircraft). This resulted in the cancellation of production in February 1944, with only 15 Shiuns completed, including the six prototypes.

RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz
 

That's it makvov. You're up!

Kawanishi E15K

http://www.historyofwar.org/articles...ishi_E15K.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawanishi_E15K

The retractable stabilisation floats didn't work, so they went for fixed ones instead.
In front line trials, the main float failed to jettison and allied fighters shot down all 6 test aircraft.

... so production was canceled in February 1944, with only 15 Shiuns completed, including the six prototypes.

RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz
 

Okay, Name the designer.

1. He had developed 1 very well known plane.
2. Like all of his designs, they pushed the envelope including aproposed coal powered airplane.
3.However it really was until later that some of his ideas became practical.
4. He also designed a plane to compete head to head with a very interesting plane of which the only one is archived in a Smithsonian warehouse.

RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz
 

Horton brothers?

RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz
 

Like this?

RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz
 

Great Graphic...talk about an ecological meltdown !!!

RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz
 

Alexander Lippisch designer of he Me-163

RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz
 

Imade it too easy :)

yes, Alexander Lippisch, actually designed the DFS-40 which became the 163 Komet.

RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz
 

No, not that easy, you just ran into an Aero Engineer who is facinated by engineers who went outside the box to find solutions to problems. I've also built a plastic model of just about everything he's designedl You guys do know that the F-102, F-106 and B-58 were straongly influsenced by his work?

RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz
 

Ok today's aircraft question:

Please identify for me an aircraft that was:

Twin engined
Had STOL capability
Was produced along side the Corsair

RE: Knowledge Quiz for Warbird wiz
 

The Vought XF5U "Flying Flapjack" was an experimental U.S. Navy fighter aircraft designed by Charles H. Zimmerman during World War II. This unorthodox design consisted of a flat, somewhat disc shaped body (hence its name) serving as the lifting surface.[1] Two piston engines buried in the body drove propellers located on the leading edge at the wingtips