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RE: Electric Retracts From E-flite
ORIGINAL: John Redman Hi Ed, Please check and see that we will be offering some 85° sets which are exactly what a P-51 needs. I had to come up with a foot print that made sense for this size. I felt the Robart air up/spring down system units were probably about the most widely used in this size range so I made them to match. If you have the Robarts, these are a drop in for them. I truly understand your issues concerning the retracts and struts for the new Mustang and older 150 sized mustang. Straight struts are a cardinal sin but I am not in charge of that. I personally would have never done that. No company that I know of offers 74° retracts except Century Jet. I will be honest, they do not appear to be any serious competition in the retract field from what you will find on this forum or others. As for competing with mechanicals, there really aren't any out there that are good over 9 pounds. The Hangar 9 units for their 150 size are about $80 street price for a set and then you need (2) $70.00 retract servos. What would be a solid price for a pair of 60 - 120 sized electric main units in your eyes. I am interested in what you guys think here. Look for them at a trade show in a state that starts with an ''O''. You should be happy I believe. Still can't give you a price yet, but it will be reasonable. Quality will be what you see. Solid 6061-T6 aluminum. No plastic at all. These are a follow on to our currently available 10 - 15 sized electric retracts that have been out for over a month. More sizes to follow guys, it will only get better with time. John- Thanks for responding- As for 74 degree retracts there are companies that offer them in limited sizes. Spring Air has them in their full size range, as does Robart (although Robart only offers them in some larger sizes). Frank Tiano has mechanical retracts that he sells for 150 size planes (specifically the H9 mustang) that are drop-in replacements for the h9 gear. Work pretty well from the reorts I've seen here on rcu. But I agree with the cost when you add in the cost of the retract servos. I would definitely be interested in seeing how your electric servos are made. Do you plan to offer versions that accept oleo struts directly without having to use those stupid wire connectors? Ed |
RE: Electric Retracts From E-flite
Ed,
Was not aware that Robart or Spring Air made anything in the 60 size world for the 74° market. I appreciate the info and will look at it. As for the oleo struts and havign them drop right in without those stupid wire connectors, right now no. We have discussed this and did not fully come to a conclussion as to what was used and cost situations overall. No sense designing in something that will get used 10% of the time and make it a bit tougher and actualyl raise the cost of the unit for the majority that wouldn't use them and use wire only. Nothing to say we could not change over time and make adjustments. Need to find a point of where the market is first I believe. |
RE: Electric Retracts From E-flite
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ORIGINAL: John Redman Ed, Was not aware that Robart or Spring Air made anything in the 60 size world for the 74° market. I appreciate the info and will look at it. As for the oleo struts and havign them drop right in without those stupid wire connectors, right now no. We have discussed this and did not fully come to a conclussion as to what was used and cost situations overall. No sense designing in something that will get used 10% of the time and make it a bit tougher and actualyl raise the cost of the unit for the majority that wouldn't use them and use wire only. Nothing to say we could not change over time and make adjustments. Need to find a point of where the market is first I believe. Why would it make it a bit tougher - it actually makes the gear MUCH easier to use if the gear is designed properly. I will take a pic or two to show you some Robart gear that take oleos directly into the gear without those stupid wires. Please don't push that design onto these guys. The Robart gear that I use is the 700 series which is the air up spring down series, which is their copy of the Spring Air design. The oleos I use are the Robart 7/16 oleos. Ed |
RE: Electric Retracts From E-flite
Woa! Nice look'in gear!! Don't see why you wouldent want to go in this direction. As for price, how about 109.00 for a main gear set.
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RE: Electric Retracts From E-flite
Ed,
I understand what you are saying but I will be willing to bet you are not the masses. You are the exception overall. The gear you show are $270 for a set of mains. The air up sring downs we copied are the 510 series. Those that you show are a bit more beefy than ours overall. Now the ones you show cannot use wire struts. So to use wire struts some type of adapter block would need to be designed to fit in the trunion and have a wire slip into it. Not every one can or is willing to pay $50.00 per strut. I personally am right there with you, but this is not abotu me, it is what the consumer needs on a daily basis and a solid value and price. That is the point I was trying to make. All too often modelers get caught up in what they like and not always in what they need. I have done it myself for the past 30 years. On the price, you couldn't get one of those mains with a strut for $109.00 Skypilot101. If you can personally garauntee me that I will sell just as many of those $270 sets as I will of a set that will still work very well for 45% less then we could go this way. But I sincerely doubt that would happen. |
RE: Electric Retracts From E-flite
ORIGINAL: John Redman Ed, I understand what you are saying but I will be willing to bet you are not the masses. You are the exception overall. The gear you show are $270 for a set of mains. The air up sring downs we copied are the 510 series. Those that you show are a bit more beefy than ours overall. Now the ones you show cannot use wire struts. So to use wire struts some type of adapter block would need to be designed to fit in the trunion and have a wire slip into it. Not every one can or is willing to pay $50.00 per strut. I personally am right there with you, but this is not abotu me, it is what the consumer needs on a daily basis and a solid value and price. That is the point I was trying to make. All too often modelers get caught up in what they like and not always in what they need. I have done it myself for the past 30 years. On the price, you couldn't get one of those mains with a strut for $109.00 Skypilot101. If you can personally garauntee me that I will sell just as many of those $270 sets as I will of a set that will still work very well for 45% less then we could go this way. But I sincerely doubt that would happen. You could make some adaptors so people could put those little wires in the retracts if they don't want to pay for the oleos - the adaptors would fit right in the holes in the retracts and the wire struts would press into the wires - simple and easy to make. Ed |
RE: Electric Retracts From E-flite
"10% of the time? Why would people buy a fairly scale warbird and not want to have scale struts?"
Agree 100% , retracts are a luxary on warbirds ,if you use them you want them as scale as possible , on sport planes , spindley little legs are ok , but not for warbirds :D |
RE: Electric Retracts From E-flite
LDM, yes you want the scale bird as scale as possible. I totally agree but right now and I believe for a while it will be more about value which means a great price and solid performance.
Ed, you are getting it. Think of the mass market of modelers who live at your field. These are the guys that love to fly and are happy with getting up and down every weekend. Thigns will get better. Believe me we aren't stopping here. This is just the tip of the iceberg. What you are truly looking for is coming, I promise you that. Give me a little bit of time and get your wallet out, you won't be disapointed. |
RE: Electric Retracts From E-flite
John, I implied $109 for your new gear, not the struts!
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RE: Electric Retracts From E-flite
John I agree , I am in the CPG industry , 10% unemplyment #1 retailers demographics is $29,000 a year for a household and sales jump first of the month due to gov checks .
All I am saying is even as a "after market add on " so it does not hit the wallet at one time , I think the warbirds guys would make the investment . I guess if you look at the lado sales and pictures there were very few that did not add struts . IN addition , Robart struts are the most expensive ones in the game and they dont even come cut or predrilled . VQ struts while not premium were $35 for two , KMO struts also seen on Hobby King are much much cheaper and the strust work , I cant speak for the retract but the struts work . Thanks for your time |
RE: Electric Retracts From E-flite
john if these were a copy does that mean that the robo struts could be used to help us scale guys out a little more?
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RE: Electric Retracts From E-flite
ORIGINAL: John Redman LDM, yes you want the scale bird as scale as possible. I totally agree but right now and I believe for a while it will be more about value which means a great price and solid performance. Ed, you are getting it. Think of the mass market of modelers who live at your field. These are the guys that love to fly and are happy with getting up and down every weekend. Thigns will get better. Believe me we aren't stopping here. This is just the tip of the iceberg. What you are truly looking for is coming, I promise you that. Give me a little bit of time and get your wallet out, you won't be disapointed. Ed |
RE: Electric Retracts From E-flite
ORIGINAL: John Redman LDM, yes you want the scale bird as scale as possible. I totally agree but right now and I believe for a while it will be more about value which means a great price and solid performance. Ed, you are getting it. Think of the mass market of modelers who live at your field. These are the guys that love to fly and are happy with getting up and down every weekend. Thigns will get better. Believe me we aren't stopping here. This is just the tip of the iceberg. What you are truly looking for is coming, I promise you that. Give me a little bit of time and get your wallet out, you won't be disapointed. Bruce |
RE: Electric Retracts From E-flite
The news keeps getting better. We've waited all this time, another year or two won't kill us.
Here's to building a better mousetrap! :D |
RE: Electric Retracts From E-flite
ORIGINAL: rc34074 ORIGINAL: John Redman LDM, yes you want the scale bird as scale as possible. I totally agree but right now and I believe for a while it will be more about value which means a great price and solid performance. Ed, you are getting it. Think of the mass market of modelers who live at your field. These are the guys that love to fly and are happy with getting up and down every weekend. Thigns will get better. Believe me we aren't stopping here. This is just the tip of the iceberg. What you are truly looking for is coming, I promise you that. Give me a little bit of time and get your wallet out, you won't be disapointed. Ed <span style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);"><span style="font-size: larger;">Ditto to what Ed wrote about wire vs. oleos! I won't buy retracts that use wire struts. Period. Give me solid, reliable oleo - ready electric retracts and you'll have a customer for life. Otherwise, no sale. Mike</span></span> |
RE: Electric Retracts From E-flite
The oleo-only crowd is going to have to wait. I understand. I'll buy some when they are released. I won't buy any wire retracts. We all belong to the 10% minority. Or maybe it's 20% but still a minor slice of the pie. Of course we outspend the majority (of the majority), but we cannot compete with the raw numbers.
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RE: Electric Retracts From E-flite
You could add robart oles to these without any issue. Just like you would do it now on their 510 series.
There is a possibility of one later on with a wider trunion to hold a strut. These currently are not wide enough for that. For the diehard guys I understand no oleo no sale. Sorry to hear that from you. Catch them on the next round. Lado never delivered anything in any numbers. |
RE: Electric Retracts From E-flite
So John looks like you will sell to the low end of the market only. how do you justify tooling up these retracts to such a small volume of sales?
Or did you do any real marketing study on this - Lado was only one guy who was only scratching the surface of the retract market with his electric retracts. You have (or maybe the term is had) an opportunity to catch the market with a real innovation and looks to me like H9 is going to leave the door open for Robart or others to do it right and eat your lunch. Too bad John. Good Luck Ed |
RE: Electric Retracts From E-flite
ORIGINAL: rc34074 So John looks like you will sell to the low end of the market only. how do you justify tooling up these retracts to such a small volume of sales? Or did you do any real marketing study on this - Lado was only one guy who was only scratching the surface of the retract market with his electric retracts. You have (or maybe the term is had) an opportunity to catch the market with a real innovation and looks to me like H9 is going to leave the door open for Robart or others to do it right and eat your lunch. Too bad John. Good Luck Ed He said the oleo-capable retracts would come later. that's good enough for me. I never bought any lados either. But I will certainly buy Horizon's later versions! |
RE: Electric Retracts From E-flite
ORIGINAL: John Redman You could add robart oles to these without any issue. Just like you would do it now on their 510 series. ... <ul>[*]So, there is a rotating set available for the Hellcat and Corsair?<br type="_moz" />[*]From my understanding, the 3/8" diameter RoboStrut could be used as a replacement for the wire strut?<br type="_moz" />[*]Lastly, would this be a simple replacement or is a bit of tooling required?[/list]Thanks for any insight! Jeff |
RE: Electric Retracts From E-flite
Retracts are high-stress components with many moving parts and options for struts, wires, brakes etc so - just like engines - we will always be busy setting up, tweaking, maintaining them.
If at the heart of the machine there can be a cheap and trouble-free electric retract with good after-sales service then 90% of our problems are solved. If these retracts become mainstream then I'm sure that strut vendors will make their struts retract-ready to avoid the drilling-tapping hassle Eagerly awaiting, and also curious about the rotating version Nick |
RE: Electric Retracts From E-flite
The point I was making to John here is that the world of retracts is not going to change to fit what he has done/wants. If Robart or Century Jet or maybe even some chinese retract company like the one that makes the retracts for ESM now decides to get into the electric retract business they have ALREADY made the investment in the tooling to make the frames for the different types of retracts like 85, 90, 74 degree, etc retracts. It would be fairly cheap and easy for them to design and make their own electric retracts. Theirs could either take wires or oleos directly without those stupid little wires :) , and thus they would serve the main retract market and John's version would be stuck in its little niche in the electric plane area. So the investment EFlite has made wouldn't pay off very much.
Ed |
RE: Electric Retracts From E-flite
mtnbike101 - I think the answers to your questions would be:
Yes - rotatings will be available Yes - a 3/8 strut can be used No - these struts are never an easy install since you have to cut down a piece of 3/8 wire and then drill and tap the strut leg for the holding screw. Easy enough to do if you have a drill press and a saw that can handle hardened stell 3/8 thick. But for the average modeler, it's alot of extra work. It would be nice of the strut makers would just predrill them with the adapters in place since they can still be mounred even if you don't use those parts. |
RE: Electric Retracts From E-flite
Thanks for the info thedeeman! It would seem logical for the mfr (Robart in this case) to predrill and provide the adapters as you mention. Perhaps there's not enough demand for that service yet; although these new retracts might help. I haven't searched yet, but would assume that someone has posted a thread on the process of adapting struts in such a manner. If I find such a post, I'll edit my reply and include it for reference.
Thanks, Jeff ORIGINAL: thedeeman mtnbike101 - I think the answers to your questions would be: Yes - rotatings will be available Yes - a 3/8 strut can be used No - these struts are never an easy install since you have to cut down a piece of 3/8 wire and then drill and tap the strut leg for the holding screw. Easy enough to do if you have a drill press and a saw that can handle hardened stell 3/8 thick. But for the average modeler, it's alot of extra work. It would be nice of the strut makers would just predrill them with the adapters in place since they can still be mounred even if you don't use those parts. |
RE: Electric Retracts From E-flite
A man comes on here bringing good news, to fill a need that so many people have been waiting on and he basically gets attacked because the spoiled masses want a mass production item that can be used in numerous applications to fit their specific need.
People gripe because fitting their oleo to a wire is extra work....ok, how much "extra" work? a few hours? how many hours did you just spend building the airframe?, but a wire and drilling set screws in an Oleo?, forget it, too much work. Your all a bunch of turds. I await your retracts eagerly Mr. Redman |
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