cheeseclip

what type of weapons do warships use?

Wreno

CO2 (or, sometimes but rarely, compressor based) powered cannons fire BBs, 3/16. 7/32, or 1/4" ball bearings. Big Gun uses all 4 calibers, size based on what the prototype ship had. Fast Gun (aka Small Gun) uses only BB's. For a more full discussion, see the article from the December, 2005 issue of Servo Magazine, reprinted with permission on the [link=http://www.ntxbg.org]ww.ntxbg.org[/link] web site. There are also links to various clubs and suppliers, how-tos, etc. there.

Wreno

Wreno

Just noticed that you are from NZ. Tha Australian Battle Group [link=http://www.ausbg.org]www.ausbg.org[/link] is one of the largest and most active Big Gun organizations in the world. You can get with them to watch some battles and see how it all works firsthand. They also have lots of helpful guys there who should be able to help you get started, if you want to.

Wreno

cyclops2

What happened to the ALL 1/8" BALSA SIDED class requirements.

Wreno

What do you mean? I am not familiar with the "requirement" you quote. Where is it from? I've only been involved for 4-5 years so far, but have not heard of it in the form you quote. Of course, I am learning every day - just because I have not heard of it, doesn't mean it does not now or did not exist -please let me know where you got this information, and maybe I can find out more.

Generally, in Big Gun, 1/8" balsa is the maximum armor thickness and thickness varies based on prototype ship's armor, with thicknesses ranging from 1/16" to 1/8". In Fast Gun (aka Small Gun), I believe the standard is 1/32" for everybody. The general rule seems to be 85% of the hull (usually between the caprail and 1" below the waterline) must be penetrable balsa skin, but details differ from club to club. For more information, and perhaps a clearer discussion, see the 12/05 Servo Magazine article, reprinted by permission on the [link=http://www.ntxbg.org]www.ntxbg.org[/link] web site, and also, review the rules posted on your nearby club's web site (links to many are on the NTXBG site).

Wreno

cheeseclip

can bbs really break the hull

Umi_Ryuzuki

Yes....

cheeseclip

WOW!!!!!!
do they have torpedos they can fire?

Umi_Ryuzuki

Torpedos are just 1/4" diameter 2" long aluminum rods. They are also air propelled out of their launch positions.

Wreno

Some clubs use 1/4" ball bearings for torps, or multiple (2 or 3) to a single shot torp. Lots of club differences.

A little clarification - "Break the hull" (break a rib or other major structural point) - mostly no (pretty rare, if the guns are set to mandated safety levels). Penetrate the balsa in the penetrable areas (that is, make a hole through which water can come through) - absolutely. That is, after all, the whole point. A lot of the web sites (including the NTXBG mentioned above) have pictures of battle damage, and there are also some in the Servo Magazine article mentioned. It will answer a lot of your questions (including probably some you haven't thought of yet).

Wreno

cheeseclip

man that would suck to repair the hull

johnmCA72

Oh, not at all! They're built to be easily repaired. If there are just a few holes, they can be patched in a few minutes. Reskinning the complete skin, or even just a portion of it, if there's more damage isn't a big deal at all.

That's the whole point - make it easy to fix, then get out & do it some more!!!

JM

Thalass

A friend and I are thinking of building a large scale warship using paintball sized wax shells as ammo. That way our pride and joy(s) won't sink! It would be 1/50th (or aroundabouts) scale, which is why we're reluctant to let them sink heh.


That 1/144 scale combat looks like great fun! Though they should advertise more, I used to live in one of the towns the Australian Battle Group sail in/around and I'd never heard of them. I would have loved to go to one of their combat days.

Wreno

There some of the Small/Fast Gun guys battling in Canada (it isn't Big Gun, but they still shoot and sink). We have been trying to get the word out for years. There is a strong web presence, at least a couple of Yahoo Groups, local demonstrations and shows, press coverage when we can get it, flyers in hobby shops, cards, etc. We have even gotten one (and soon to be another) segment on The Outdoor Channel's Inside R/C show, a 7 page article in Servo Magazine (referenced and linked above - have a look), an article coming in Robot (we are more akin to battlebots in many respects than model boaters - we like mayhem, they are afraid of superficial damage - don't want to scuff up their pretty work, while we wear the damage and battle scars as a badge of honor). We (the NTXBG) had a reporter out to our battle today, and she is trying to get stories and pictures into multiple area newspapers. And, multiple promotional videos have been produced, distributed, etc. We ARE trying for exposure... After all, we would all like more targets .... errr.... Captains, on the water.

As for sinking - the ships are designed and built to be sunk, recovered, patched and thrown back into battle. Nothing is lost, so why sweat it? Plus, a hole is digital - either it penetrated or it didn't (sometimes they bounce off). Pretty easy to score.

Ane vendor advertised for years. Then the model ship magazine he advertised in went under. Oh well. Remember, advertising is expensive, and this is a volunteer sport - our money goes into getting our ships on the water.

Interestingly, we get 90% of our new members form word of mouth or the internet, both of which are free.

Wreno

Umi_Ryuzuki

The OAFs can be found here in Canada...


OAF- Ontario Attack Force.

I was sure we had a link for these guys posted, I will have to remedy that...

http://groups.msn.com/OAF

johnmCA72

Everybody has a little different idea of what's fun, but I assure you it's hard to beat watching something sink, even if it's your own! For me, I'd find it disappointing if all I could do was paint or get painted. However, I could see where it could develop into a badge of honor to wear the greatest variety of different colors!

The reality of the matter is that, once you've been sunk a couple of times, it's no big deal. The first time, there's this great moment of absolute terror, when you realize that your "baby" is going down, & there's nothing you can do about it. I think that one moment is just priceless - it's like the rush you get from doing something that almost kills you, but not quite. Once you've got the ship recovered, patched, & back on the water, you know that both you & the ship can live through a sinking & it's not quite the same next time (& the time after, etc.). Also, once you've been sunk a few times & get your repair techniques down, the battle itself becomes a lot more fun because you're willing to do more. You know that getting shot or even sunk doesn't hurt so bad - that it's not permanent - & you get more willing to put your ship into harm's way.

Also, when you do sink, you're not on your own. The club atmosphere really comes out when it's time to recover & repair a ship. Sometimes there's so much help, you practically have to push them away! In our club, there are usually 2-3 guys who will jump up & recover a sunk ship on their own, if the captain of the sunk vessel doesn't move fast enough. Then there are often more people helping patch than there is room for them all to work! The point is that everybody thoroughly understands that, for the group to be successful & each of the members to have a good time, everybody needs to be successful. That means helping the new guys get their ships built, working, & on the water. It means maybe taking it a little easy on them the first couple of times out - at least until they start getting froggy! It means being gracious in both victory and defeat by helping fix the holes that you just put into somebody's ship or helping get it off the bottom after you just helped send it there. It's knowing that sometimes it's your day & sometimes it's not, & sooner or later you're likely to find yourself on either side of the situation, either helping somebody else or being helped.

Case in point: At yesterday's battle we had Axis & Allied alike helping patch USS Missouri after being sunk. Had multiple parties not pitched in, the captain might very well have called it a day. However, with the help & encouragement coming from all sides, he was able to get it on the water to be sunk a 2nd time, collecting over 60 holes in the process! I think this was his first multiple-sink day, & I hope he enjoyed the fact that everybody got to watch his ship sink twice a lot more than he would have enjoyed just sailing around & never get sunk at all.

Everybody understands that, for anybody to have the fun of shooting up & sinking another person's ship, that that other person needs to feel like they have a chance (not necessarily equal, but they choose their own level by picking their ship) to have their own fun. If you run them all off, they won't come back & then you won't have anybody to shoot at anymore. For me to have a constant supply of targets, I have to make sure that the guys who have the targets are always in a situation where it's fun for them, too. Those who put targets on the water for me to shoot at need to feel that they have chance of success against me, or they won't bother. Success can mean different things to different people. For a cargo captain, success may mean getting in a few successful runs. For somebody with a small armed ship, it might mean being able to get the occasional good lick in on a big boy, at the cost of getting trashed more often than not. For somebody with a big, heavily armed ship, success might mean being able to go toe-to-toe with another big, heavily armed ship, taking it as well as dishing it out, until one or the other gives up or goes down.

It really all comes down to the comraderie. Shooting up each others' ships is just an excuse to all get together.

JM

cheeseclip

what dot you patch the hulls with

cheeseclip

i think they should have a full scale war between two countries with scale replicas of the vechiles. air, sea and land!

johnmCA72

Usually just patch balsa with more balsa. I've got a pair of patching dies that I made from brass tubing, about 1/2". One fits inside the other so that they're not exactly the same size. One end of the tube is mounted into a dowel handle & the other end is sharpened. This pair of tools can be used to cut disks out of balsa pretty easily. The smaller one is used to cut out a disk from the hull, surrounding a damage hole. The larger disk cuts a plug out of sheet balsa. Since the plug is slightly larger than the hole, it fits snugly. A little glue or dope, & a little silkspan over the top, & it's ready if not pretty. Areas with more damage can be cut away in squares, rectangles, etc. to the nearest rib & replaced.

Between sorties on battle day, you generally want to be fast so that you can get back on the water. Usually, just a swatch of silkspan doped over the holes is all you can expect to do. It looks like crap, but keeps the water out & that's really all you can expect for a quick job. This type of patch should be apparent in a lot of the photos on various club websites. I've found paper medical tape to be very convenient. It's like silkspan, but comes on a roll with adhesive backing. Stick-stick-stick, dope-dope-dope, done! More substantial repairs can wait until later, back at the shop. Personally, I feel like if I've got more than 10-12 holes, depending on where they are, it's easier to just reskin the whole ship. Last year, I did a reskin probably every 2 out of 3 battles.

JM

Wreno

Patching depends on the situation. At the battle, blue masking tape is a temporary patch. Or silkspan and dope.
After the battle, depends on the damage:
light damage is just a silkspan patch and dope;
heavier - a balsa plug, silkspan and dope;
pretty bad - new balsa patch across a couple of ribs, silkspan and dope;
severe - reskin

I think that, if you will read the Servo Magazine article mentioned, you will start to realize some of the difficulties of combined air, sea, and land action battles (a scale that works for one format does not necessarily work well for the others - most tank battling is 1/16 to 1/6 scale, air to ground has safety concerns and would theoretically probably work in a minimum of 1/72 to a maximum of 1/36, and ships work best in 1/144 to 1/72).