Redcat.ca

Hello..i got a question,I'm trying to fix up a clients Avalanche however i cannot start it..it has a drill start application installed.The piston is turning over,there is compression and fuel being delivered to the carb.i thought maybe i flooded it so i removed the plug and emptied out the access fuel and still no luck,my ignitor is fully charged..my slide is gapped enough so its not being choked out.What else?? Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance

{GBI}Harryball

New Glow plug? Alot of times the rechargeable ignitors will say they are charged, and they are not. You could have a bad cell. which would show a charge, then when power is pulled the battery will discharge immediatly.

After that i would take it apart to see if anything is damaged.

Redcat.ca

No the ignitor has a full charge..i pulled the plug and the coil is getting perfect heat from the ignitor .Any other thoughts before i dissasemble the engine?

Redcat Nick

Maybe your fuel has gone bad. It happens allot here when it goes from a cold climate to hot and back to cold a few times. Also it isn't good to store your fuel on bare concrete.

Redcat.ca

New fuel...still no go.

ugly duck

Why is that, Nick?

Redcat Nick

I read somewhere that concrete leaches some chemical out of the fuel causing it to go bad. I can't remember the chemical though it has been a few years since i read that.

shadow21

My Feedback: (4)

Concrete holds moisture as well. And since the nitro fuel is a moisture absorbing type deal that could be an issue as well.

shadow21

My Feedback: (4)

Have you tried setting it to the factory settings? Both the LSN and HSN are 3 full turns out from all the way in. Also whats the gap look like in the slide carb when you dont touch the gas? Maybe its too small. Ive noticed that its kinda hard to get these things to start when its cold. I would try holding the throttle down just a touch when you go to start it. Other then that im not too sure. Maybe the carb is clogged, or the gas tank isnt properly pressurized. I would suggest other things but im still learning when it comes to these things. LOL.

ugly duck

Both of those sound like the old wives tale of not keeping your car battery on the concrete floor. For the concrete to do anything bad, it would have to somehow magically leech the chemical THROUGH the plastic jug, which is clearly not leaking the chemical normally. Highly unlikely, in my opinion. Ditto for the moisture: it would have to suck any water in through the bottom of the plastic watertight jug.

The only reason I can see is that the concrete floor stays at a very constant temperature throughout the day, while the air temperature changes more drastically. That may or may not have a negative impact on the amount of water condensation on the surface of the bottle, but again if you're storing your nitro properly (sealed, with the bottle squished as much as possible to keep the volume of air and therefore water vapour to a minimum), you shouldn't have a problem. There's a fixed amount of air (and water vapour) inside the bottle for the period between uses, so the number of times the vapour condenses on the side of the bottle shouldn't matter. Eventually the methanol will pull out all the water it's going to, and it won't matter if it's stored on concrete or not.

That's how I see it, anyway. And it still doesn't help this guy get the Avalanche started... []

Redcat.ca: You've tried new fuel, you've verified that the glowplug is good and that the charger is lighting it up. You say you've got good compression at the top of the stroke. That leaves only two things I can see: the fuel mixture, and the speed you're turning it over. If you're using 20/12 fuel and if you set the carb to factory settings and give it a good prime, you should get it to light up if you're turning it fast enough. Maybe your drill isn't fast enough? I've heard a few drills really struggle to get the engine turned over fast enough, and if the battery in the drill is really low they seem to have trouble. Have you got access to a starter box to see if that'll get it fired? Also, if you're coming anywhere near hydrolocking the engine, you'll have a hard time starting it. It sounds like you're maybe too rich by your description.

You could also try preheating the engine with a heat gun or a hair dryer if you've got a really hot one. That would probably help get it running well enough to get a good tune on it.

Like Shadow, I open the throttle just a little bit when I start mine. Too much and it'll flood (or take the heck off when it does fire) but just a LEETLE bit and it is like a choke/fast idle combination on a full size carb. I find it really helps start a car, hot or cold, to crack the throttle with the throttle trim.

Redcat.ca

Ok il try all that ...thank you so much for all your help,i love this website.Ive uploaded a video of youtube as well thinking maybe someoe could help me. You can click the link to check it out. Thanks everyone!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIpO58SvNP8

p.s seems to me when this was brand new it was alot harder to turn the flywheel than it appears in my video.

AllAboutFunHobbies

I was watching your video and it sounds like it's either not turning fast enough or the compression is gone. This is a test we do (you would need a pull start for this unfortunatly). What we do is grab the pullstart handle and lift up slowly, you should be able to lift the back end of the car off the table before the engine pops over, if you can't do that the sleeve is shot, no compression. in your case I would say try to turn the flywheel over with your finger it should be pretty hard for the most part to turn over.

If I might suggest, get your self a set of sleeve pinchers for .28, .18 and .12 engines and you will be able to offer yoru customers the opertunity to get there sleeve repinched for a whole lot less than buying a new sleeve and piston set and the sleeves can be repinched over and over again till the chrome wears off the inside or the piston wears out. We do it all the time for our customers and blelieve me they are much happier than buying a new piston and sleeve.

Also you might try giving it alittle throttle on the controller while your trying to start it, I've found this is an easy way to get alittle extra air and allitle extra gas and it helps to start a stuborn engine some times. Like the others said it works like a choke almost when the engines cold. It's a good trick to pass on to your customers.

OH and one thing I ALWAYS do on the Redcat 1/8th scales is check the manifold gasket, they are the soft style and they tend to get tears in them very easily. I almost always replace them if a customer brings them back for a tune up, we replace them with the HPI Savage gaskets, they are thicker and made from the harder silicon and next to impossible to tear. If that gasket is torn, there is a good chance that even though your getting fuel it may not be enough fuel(it's a hidden over looked item). Also 99.9% of the tiem I replace there exhaust coupler Zip ties with the good black ones, that are around 1/8th wide and I pull them as tight as I can with a pair of pliers. Also I take the fuel lines off and check them for holes. Clean them off real good and find a place where you can submerge them in water and plug one end with your finger and blow in the other end, look for bubbles and switch ends. One the fuel tank I plug the Carb end of the fuel line with my finger then blow in the exhaust side and see how much pressure it takes to pop the top up, then see if it hold pressure or seeps off. If the pressure to open the lid is too little the spring is bad and the lid is leaking, if the pressure seeps off then the gasket is bad(you only do this AFTER you verify the fuel lines are good). The point here is to make sure everything is sealed properly before I even start tuning the engine.

One other thing to look at is the glow plug, just because it's glowing doesn't mean it's good, is the tip lighting up(does the entire coil light up), is the coil squished down inside the glow plug, is the electrode loose, is the coil white and chalky or black and burnt looking. I've had plenty of occasions that the glow plug lights but won't start the engine, change the glow plug and it fires right up.

Chubbysdad

My Feedback: (1)

sent ya a pm redcatca

Swingline76

i would also check the internal one way bearing on the motor. mine went bad from the drill start and i had to change. after the change engine started right up

Swingline76

i just watched your video i would definitely say to change the one way bearing. sounds like mine did when it would spin out. it takes about 5 minutes to change the bearing and i would recommend to your client to go back to the pull start. mine has not given me a problem when it comes to starting since i changed except for the usual issues such as clutch shoes and springs and also losing the screw on my clutch bell due to my own stupidity of not putting loctite on the screw.

chevyderek72

to me it doesnt sound fast enough at all. i have a drill that i used to start my friends rustler, and it turned over way faster than that.

Redcat Nick

grab the current issue of rc car mag. It has a little section on not leaving fuel on the ground. doesnt give to much detail but it is in there. on page 53

ugly duck

Haha, I've read LOTS of stuff in magazines that doesn't hold water. Not knocking you, Nick, I'm just calling this as I see it. If concrete floors can do that to car batteries and bottles of nitro, what other horrible things can concrete do? Better not lean up against a concrete wall!

To the OP: If you're able to turn over the flywheel that easy with your finger, there is not enough compression. If the cylinder is wet, you should really have to get your finger into it and hold the truck firmly to get it to turn. If you've got the plug out, you may even feel the piston catch at TDC. It looks like you were able to turn it way too easily. You're not even compressing the suspension when you turn the flywheel... you should be able to push the truck around the garage by the flywheel without it turning over.

Also, the OWB could be at fault, like Swingline suggests. It should go pop-pop-pop-pop, not pop-whirrrrrrr-pop-pop-whirrrrr... I find that when you flood one of these engines you get the slippy OWB, or if you use more than 12% oil content in your fuel I've heard you get lots of trouble.

My money's on compression, though.