katzcratch

I am wondering what the stock pinion gear is on the volcano electric stock 540 motor?
I want to gear upfor acastle motor that Iput in, it currently has great accel, but the top speed is not what Iwould like

Iam running a 2s 20c Lipo
thanks

mc4798

My Feedback: (8)

Here a re few links to look at.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_9248663/tm.htma simple mod to change gearing on your truck.

also this

http://www.comeseethis.com/gearing/gearing.htm your internal gear ratio is 3.19

Now, The truck comes with either a 17 or 18 tooth metric 48pitch pinion and a 64t spur that cant be changed unless you do the tb-03 mod. After the mod you can change everything to standard 48p gearing.

Hope this helps.

Mike

katzcratch

IF this was in  a different 1/10 car, say a losi desert...with no other changes just putting the castle into the dt, would it go that much faster?
Is the gearing that different?

mc4798

My Feedback: (8)

Gearing is very important !

If you want to go faster, Replace your pinion with a bigger one and you will go faster. Just whatch esc and motor temps.

JCAHOBBIES

Katz - I beleive the stock pinion on the volcano is a 23 tooth. To increased speed you can go up on the tooth count but be careful of motor and ESC temps. You should not allow them to get much over 160F or you risk damaging the motor.

Also keep in mind that the pinion and spur are not normal 48 pitch but rather .6 mod. Better known as metric 48 pitch.

chevyderek72

No the vortex is 23 tooth, the volcano is a 17 tooth, and the lightning is a 26.

Raindrop

Hi,
I am new to RC trucks. I have recently acquired a Redcat Volano EPX 4wd truck which has a brushed 540 motor and brushed ESC. After running the truck for few hours I have question about gears, transmission and low end torque, so I am posting the question in this thread since this thread is about gears.

I bought the truck for my 8 years old to run in the backyard, so I did not need to run very fast. So I thought that a brushed motor would be enough for 'not too fast' driving. But I found that Bermuda Lawn is providing quite a challenge for the truck ( grass is not really TALL, but it is very thick, very well taken care of Bermuda sod lawn.). Truck was quite a bit slower in the grass as compared to on pavement and after just running for 2 minutes truck started to slowdown. I picked up the truck and noticed burning smell coming out of truck. I also found that motor and ESC were super hot just after 2 minutes of run time. I guess I need more low end torque.

Now I thought of adding brushless motor & ESC but then it may make the truck too fast for the kids. I was wondering is there any way I can change pinion/spur gear combo to give little more low end torque in exchange for top speed. Two diferent solutions come to mind and I want to get opinion of the experts here.

1) My truck comes with 17T pinion abd 64T spur gear. Redcat does offer a 14T Pinion gear, I can try putting in that 14T pinion gear with the stock motor to see if it can give some extra low end torque. Do you guys think it would make any noticeable difference?

2) I have thought of switching the ESC & motor for a 4-pole brushless setup. However since I do not have any personal experiance with different type of motors, I am not sure if a 1900kv 4-pole motor would give enough low end torque above what is possible with stock 540 motor?. Also if a 1900kv 4-pole motor would be too fast for this truck. I have looked yp and really liked the price of Turnigy 1/8th Scale 4 Pole Brushless Motor - 1900KV. What type of gearing set-up would you suggest for such a motor?

Any help would be great. Since I am new to all this, any specific product/gear recommendation or link would be great.

Thanks for your time.

nitrosportsandrunner

grass is murder on any RC. even my brushless SC10 gets much hotter running on grass. Its a combo of tires not getting traction and the grass on the chassis making friction and requiring more effort to move over it.
gearing down the stock motor is not a bad idea.
Brushless would be better.....tho a 4 pole setup is not needed and could even damage the gears.
The brushless version of the truck has a 3300kv 2 pole motor. And that's plenty of power, trust me.
If the motor isn't toast yet, gear it down and raise the suspension as high as it will go.
A traxxas vxl system with the stock gearing should work.
It is hard to say for sure what motor/gear combo is best. When I try out any new motor/gear combo I use a duratrax temp gun ($20 on ebay) so that I can see exactly what temps the ESC and motor are hitting.
130 degrees is hot to the touch....but safe. 160 on the motor is safe...and much to hot to keep your finger on. your finger cant tell the difference between 160 and 200...but 200 will slowly kill a motor. $20 tool can save a lot of $$ down the road in motors/esc's

but for now, gear down and raise the suspension....or find some dirt, LOL

Raindrop

Hi,
Thanks for your detailed reply. I get most of the things you have mentioned, but I have two questions about the things that you have stated in your post.

1) What is a VXL system for Trexxas? I looked up and Trexxas make many different vehicles wih VXL label i.e Slash VXL and E-Revo VXL. So what is a VXL system and can I upgrade my Redcat Volcano to use it?

2) You have suggested toraise the suspension; which is exactly what I had in mind. Do you know what would be best way to raise the truck to get more ground clearance. Even if I find longer shocks (I am not even sure if I need longer shocks) I would need other suspension parts to go with it, right? So what would be right place to start looking toraise the suspension.

Again thanks for your time.

nitrosportsandrunner

Traxxas vxl system is the brushless speed control and 3500kv motor used in most of their 1/10 brushless models. system runs $130-$150. Its waterproof, which is nice. Franky it is overkill, but it will work just fine.
But there are many different brushless systems which will work.
You could also buy the system from redcat which comes in the volcano epx pro. Ezrun 60amp esc with 3300kv motor.

raising the hight:
move the shock's lower mount to the hole closed to the chassis.
move the shocks' upper mount to the lowest hole on the shock tower.
You can also add shock spacers to stiffen the springs

longer shocks wont really work. if you try to raise the suspension any more than the stock shocks allow, the angle on the drive shafts will be too great.

You will also notice when you raise the suspension that the camber of the tires changes (angle of tires in relation to the ground)
You can lengthen the camber links to compensate for that. Not nessesary, but too much camber will also put excessive angle on the driveshafts and limit the amount of tire tread on the ground (contact patch)

Do note that there are a few parts of the truck that should be upgraded should you install a brushless system. the brushed truck has bushings instead of ball bearings. these wear out over time with the stock speed. Add more speed and they can wear out faster. If the ones in the diff cases wear out, it will lead to damaged diff gears as the gears will have play.
The spur gear is plastic, where on the brushless version it is steel. Pinion gear on the brushless version is also steal.

You can get a modest power boost by installing a traxxas xl-5 speed control (brushed) and a better brushed motor. the stock ones are the most basic out there. If you install a traxxas xl5 and matching brushed motor, you would be able to use a bigger more powerful battery (higher MAH 7.2 or even a 8.4v)

Raindrop

Thank you again for a detailed reply. I would try to tinker with suspension during this weekend.

One last question, If I am going to upgrade to a brushless system, what are disadvantages of a 4 pole battery? I am asking because I can get a 1900 kv 4-pole motor with 120amp ESC for about $90 from Hobby King and still have money left  for other upgrades that you have mentioned?
Just wondering.

Thanks for your time once again.

nitrosportsandrunner

have you owned anything brushless?
I ask because the difference between brushed and brushless is night and day.
A common 2 pole brushless motor in that truck can go as fast as 60mph....maybe a touch faster (on 11.1v 3s lipo battery)
Even on a 7.2v nimh battery, the speed can go up by 5mph.

now, a 4 pole motor produces even more torque...possibly enough to cause drivetrain failer.

Nothing wrong with getting the 120amp esc. Its more than needed, but that's not a bad thing. But the lower kv, 4 pole motor I worry would just result in broken dog bones or busted diff gears.
You should be able to find a 2 pole motor on their site.
And I would suggest a motor in the 2900-3500kv range. any lower, and you wont be able to get a large enough pinion gear. Lower KV equals more torque but less RPMs. And trust me, a 3000ish kv 2 pole motor will have plenty of torque.

Here is a volcano I had in the past, running sand paddle tires in the snow and a traxxas 2 pole 3500kv motor...plenty of torque:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0YeexXsaPQ

this is a stock tornado epx pro, which runs a 2 pole 3300kv motor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fI06o6HvqA

Raindrop

I do have brushless motors for RC planes but off course car brushless motors are much more beefier. I will look for a 3000kv 2 pole motor then.
Thanks again for the detailed explanation.

nitrosportsandrunner

yeh, some differnences between plane on surface bl motors. big differenece in amp draw and such.
4 pole motors are often used in boats, as well as short course trucks and some big trucks.
The volcano chassis/driveline just wasn't meant to handle that kinda power. Especially the brushed version. Would be like putting a 1000hp racing engine into a ford focus....the chassis and trans wouldn't take the power, at least not for long.
The metal spur gear is a good idea, but not 100% needed. But ball bearings are a good idea.
To be honest, its almost the same cost at this point to sell your brushed version and buy the RTR brushless version. The brushless version can be found for just over $200 shipped on ebay. A brushless system and ball bearings will be $100 at the very least. another $15 for the metal spur gear. Nothing wrong with upgrading what you have, just wanted to point out the option of selling yours and buying the ready to go brushless version.

I fly planes as well. Boy, wasn't it nice when brushless became the norm for rc planes! quieter planes, with more power and longer runtimes. And some RTF brushless planes are as low as $150!

Beamie

I have Both a Redcat Volcano EPX Pro and a HSP 94111 Brontosaurus. They're basically the same MT.

My Brontosaurus is going through the "Change of Life," you might say. it was originally a Brushed vertical. What I did was take the Brushless System out of the Redcat Volcano and installed it in the Brontosaurus.

it ran pretty good for about a year and a half with a Brass 17T MOD .6 3.17 bore size Pinion and a plastic Nylon 64T Spur gear.

Now, I'm going to seriously mod this thing to fit a boat size motor with a 5mm dia. shaft to handle a Steel 21T MOD .6 5mm Bore Pinion coupled to a Steel 64T Spur to start off with.

Other changes like Aluminum hub carriers and CV's to come later. I blinged out the Volcano, but I just want to do just what's neccessary to the Brontosaurus.

Beamie

Quote from chevyderek72, "No the vortex is 23 tooth, the volcano is a 17 tooth, and the lightning is a 26."

I can absolutley confirm that Redcat 1/10 Vehicles used .6 MOD Gears. I can also confirm that RRP do not sell and did not give me any indication that it had any desire, at the present time, to provide the public with .6 MOD Gears with 5mm Bore.

You can also change the size of the Spur Gears to having less teeth.

RustyUs

Not all their 1/10 RCs use .6 Module pitch gears. A lot of their newer stuff uses .8 MOD/32P gears.

Beamie

Cool! I was going to Confirm that, but since you posted it, I'll take it to be valid. That's probably why why RRP isn't worried about making .6 MOD 5mm Bore size pinion gears