Madd_Maxx

I've been flying for almost 2 years now with my 2 trainers....a thunder tiger trainer (first plane that has been crashed so many times it's more epoxy and thin ca but still flys stable as ever) and a newer hanger 9 extra easy. I fly with a small group of guys off a private paved 6000' runway and I'm getting more comfortable everytime we go out to fly.....takeoffs and landings are almost second nature now (Thanks G2 for all the rainyday practice).

I guess I've been bitten by the spad building bug and it seems to be a good thing so far. I love to build things..or re-build things (woodworking - steel - r/c stuff in general) and this spad was an excellent project to pass some time while the weather was less than favorable for flying....it's been cold and rainy here for the last few days.

Just thought I would ask a few quick questions before the maiden flight tomorrow (hopefully if the weather cooperates). With this being my first tail-dragger style plane what can I expect from this little rocketship as far as the takeoffs and landings are concerned? I've got it pretty close to being balanced 6 - 6 1/2" from the leading edge of the wing with an empty tank....is that close enough for stable flight response? The motor is an old spare TT gp.42 with a 10x5 prop that came out of my trainer....is that going to be enough motor and the correct prop for some decent performance?

I do have a buddy box for my jr radio and one of the other guys in our group has flown tail draggers for the last 2 years so he can give me a few pointers and help taking off and landing if need be.

Sorry about the dark pics (hopefully I can take a few better ones tomorrow at the field)....it's been overcast and raining here all day.





Sorry to be a true newby and ask so many questions about spads but this is a whole new thing for me. If this spa3dt is half as much fun to fly as it was to build.....I think I'll be HOOKED on building spads for a good long time !!!

Many Thanks,
Madd_Maxx

thudriver

Hold up elevator to make the rudder effective and when it breaks ground, yank the throttle back 1/3. Piece of cake, Have fun! thudriver

AIRPLANENUTS

My Feedback: (2)

Very cool, Maxx. I'm building one too, so I can't wait to hear a flight report! What is your AUW?

Daddyo57

My Feedback: (15)

Looks Great!!! love the colors!

Madd_Maxx

Hello All,

Had to report the results of the maiden flight of the spa3dt today!! First thing was the tailwheel assembly that I guess I built to light since it bent before I ever got off the ground.....fixed that with a severe bend in the tail wheel wire and a full throttle roll out to leap this little rocket into the air. Once it was up off terra firma the thing was a real handfull.....seems tailheavy in the air but balances perfect 6" from the leading edge so I don't know whats going on there but it hovers like a madman even with the weak TT gp.42 motor and a 10X5 prop.

The maiden flight lasted only a short amount of time and ended in a nosedive into the paved runway....end result 1 broken prop - cracked spinner - scratched paint on wing tip (nothing more).....try that with a balsa plane and you'll need a LARGE trashbag to pick up the pieces.

Can anyone suggest a fix for the taildragging that this thing loves to do.....it balances perfect at 6" and at 6 1/2" - 7" it is slightly nose heavy but nothing major out of balance. I do have the ailerons reflexed roughly 1/4" up as many have suggested but since it wants to climb straight up without any down elevator applied could they be reflexed to much creating the taildive (nose up hover all the time) characteristics that I'm experiencing. For level flight you have to give it pretty heavy down elevator input.....the elevator is 100% flat or neutral with the horizontal (not drooping or reflexed in any amount). I'm open for any suggestions since I think this plane will be a real blast when trimmed out for stable flight.


If you can't tell already I'M NOW HOOKED on spads!!

Thanks in advance for any suggestions,
Madd_Maxx

Col. K0rn

My Feedback: (1)

I had the same problem with my QHOR today. Maiden flight, it wanted to hang nose up all flight. I had it trimmed full up elevator on my radio(stick up, not control surface) when I realized what my problem was.

I brought it in and moved the control horn closer to the hinge. You need to have the control horn as close to the hinge as possible. With the hinge moved, I noticed still I needed more trim. I brought my plane back, and then trimmed the elevator to where it was in a 1/8 downward angle... I guess I had to compensate for the bigger motor I have on my plane.

I'm confident this will help you get level flight. It did for me!

Happy Flying

Daddyo57

My Feedback: (15)

I have had 2 SPA3Ds, 1 QHOR, and a new MDDD-T and all of them seemed to need actual down elevator trim to fly level. This is with the ailerons reflexed up slightly. These models seem to be naturaly at home nose up wich in my opinion is a good thing!!! that is what makes these planes cool. Just my personal experience, I bet Tattoo or Dave McDonald can get you much more info on this than I can.

Col. K0rn

My Feedback: (1)

I had my alierons level with the bottom of the fuse, and the elevator slightly down. I found that this setup allowed it to fly level, which shocked the heck outta me! I love this plane! I was able to fly full throttle, in a dive, with no flutter at all.

I did learn this: if you land with the nose in the dirt, make sure your clunk did not bend to the front of the tank! Otherwise, when you take off on the next flight, when you get the nose pointed skyward, the engine will cut off, it will fall out of the sky faster than a brick. The QHOR's don't glide well...

That's the voice of experience speaking... it happened today.

novabill

Mine likes a little down elevator also. The other thing to check is rhe coathanger supports at the end of the wing. With the T-model, your J bend in the wing is 1" thick at the fuse, but keep your coat hangar spacers at the tip 1/2. I found this to help the nose up attitude requireing less down ELE. Your plane looks fantastic and you should enjoy many gallons of fun from it.

Welcome to the forum
WILLIAM

AIRPLANENUTS

My Feedback: (2)

Have you tried down thrust on your engine? I'm making my mount with 3 degrees down and 3 degrees right thrust. I'll post a flight report when it's done. Down thrust should compensate for ballooning if cg is correct. Hope this helps.

Madd_Maxx

Well took the spad into work today to get a weight on it....just to see how heavy it is all decked out in flight trim. The spa3dt comes in at a decent 4.52 pounds (measured on a ups digital scales so it's pretty accurate).....had to love the way the guys at work were amazed with the fact that the coroplast beast actually flies!!

To reply to some of the suggestions so far:

As far as the control horns in relation to the hinges....mine are right on the hinge line so I don't think that is my problem. Don't know about the downthrust of the motor thing with these things as this is my first spad that I've ever built. One of the first things I'm going to try is set the elevator with a bit of down elevator with the trims at neutral positions and add just a tad bit of weight (nothing crazy) to the nose and see if that helps the nose up attitude. Maybe I've just got the elevator surface set with a bit of up elevator without even knowing it....control surface looks to be level with the horizontal but that could be one small problem leading to another somewhere else. I fly this spad with a load of hand me down gear (airtronics vg400 radio with all airtronics servos) so trim adjustability of a computer radio isn't an option I have to adjust with clevis's and more wire bends.

I do appreciate the responses and suggestions to get this fun plane back in the air SOON !!

Thanks,
Madd_Maxx

Col. K0rn

My Feedback: (1)

How would you add down thrust to the engine? By adding a washer or two to the rear screw that attaches the mount to the fuselage? How did you measure the angle? With a protractor? 3 degrees is about equivalent to the thickness of a penny on this scale. Am I about right? Would you measure from the centerline of the fuse, and the centerline of the motor?

Thanks & sorry to piggyback on the thread Maxx; it is in hopes that we all learn from helping others with our experiences.

Clevises??? [X(] Now we're getting into high dollar SPADding. LOL. j/k I have them on my control surfaces.

Madd_Maxx

Col. K0rn:

No problem with jumping in to get a few more answers from a simple question I had.....r/c universe is a great place to learn and that's what everyone is here for. I've had several questions answered already and I think I'm on the right track for a good flight this weekend with the spa3dt.....I added a thick washer to the bottom of one of my through bolts on the landing gear/motor mount and that seems to have made it just a tad bit nose heavy at 6 - 6 1/4" back from the leading edge (used to perfectly balance at that same point before the weight addition). That counterweight along with a little tweaking of the elevator control surface should just about do it as far as nice stable level flight I HOPE !!

Madd_Maxx

AIRPLANENUTS

My Feedback: (2)

Col. Korn, if you have a scientific calculator, punch in 3 and then tan (tangent). This gives you the percentage of the slope of 3 degrees. The tangent of 3 degrees is 0.052407779. The cutout for my .46 fx was 40mm long (along the beams), so I multiplied 40mm X 1.052407779 = 2.1mm. I then drew a box on a piece of paper 36mm wide X 40mm long, cut it out, centered it at the location called for on the plans, and rotated it about the centerline at the rear of the cutout (rear of engine) 2.1mm to starboard (right as viewed from cockpit). This gives me 3 degrees right thrust. You could also just cut out for the engine as called for in the plans, then rotate the entire mount 3 degrees before screwing it to the fuselage.

Use the same formula above for finding 3 degrees down thrust. I marked each end of the leading edge of the mount 2.1mm below the top surface (after cutting out for the engine), 40mm behind the leading edge of the mount (all the way across), and drew a line along the ends of the mount between the marks 2.1mm below the top surface and up to the line across the mount 40mm behind the leading edge. This is a 3 degree angle. I used a table-mounted sander to sand the angle out, giving me 3 degrees downthrust when the engine is mounted.

I hope this helps!

Jonathan Ott

My Feedback: (25)

Maxx,

The SPA3d (and the T model) were not really designed for level cruising flight, but rather for high agle of attack and hovering flight. If it flies aroound tail low, that is how it is supposed to fly. The QHOR and others in were intended for flat flight, with some decent 3D capabilities, but the SPA3D was designed to stand in it's tail.

Also, if you are balanced at 6", that is the starting place for hovering. If you are balancing nose low, or level at 6 1/2-7" inches, you are very tail heavy and getting into the extreme hover zone. The 6" mark is where to start, and if you want it docile and a flat flyer, then go nose low at the 6" mark.

Hope this helps and does not confuse. At any rate, just have fun. Dont over think it, just fly it.

Jon

rlt55

LOL! I've posted about this very same problem.. After it happened on ALL 3 of my SPADs,
I've learned to put a stiff tube inside the fuel line to keep the clunk in the rear of the tank.
It's not fun doing dead stick with a SPA3D or QHOR unless it's up about 100 feet.

If it's up aways, It will glide, but you have dive it hard to get some speed.
When it's going fast, it can be landed hot just like a high performace (read thin low wing) plane.

Col. K0rn

My Feedback: (1)

Yeah, I made that modification already. Advice from one of my fellow fliers taught me that.

CaptAl

When I built my Spad 3D I just left the tailwheel off. Simpler and it steers just fine without it. I have about 30 flights on mine and it is a blast. On my first 2 flights I had an APC 11X6 on my Thunder Tiger .46 Pro and was disappointed with the hovering and vertical. Switched to the APC 12.25X4 and it is an entirely different plane, awesome! The guys at the field are amazed at the climbing flat spins!
Capt Al

novabill

No tailwheel= less weight and easier take-offs for me. I use a big control horn for a skid

William

rlt55

When I was repairing my SPA3D (bent U-channel),
I cut off the tail-wheel and replaced with a
music wire skid. The skid is plugged into the rudder
just like a tail-wheel.
I was amazed at how much better my take-offs got
just using a short steerable skid (instead of a wheel).
It seems like a wheel makes it too easy to drift over
to edge of the runway and eat weeds!
All part of being a newbie I guess..

EagleOne

I don't have a steerable taiwheel or skid either. It's just a bent 1/8" MW attached by the same screws that attach the vertical stab. The propwash acting on the rudder is enough to steer it, even in "tall" grass.

EagleOne

Here's a pic of my setup: