Looking to build a model that will hit 1:40's to compete in SWRA. Any suggestions?
Thanks

If you don’t mind looking like half of the Gold planes, the World Models Mustang is a good choice. They are a little fragile but static well and will go in the 1:40s.

A lot of people:

• Get them uncovered
• Beef up stab and wing
• Cover for static judging
• Run YS .091 on 50% nitro with APC 13x9 or 12x11N

I dont think that setup will run 1:40s on a 700 ft course. I watched a clipped wing Great planes 51 with a changed airfoil run 1:40's with a YS 120 SC. THat setup would probably be a slow Silver with a 2:00 breakout time. Im thinking some sort of twin engine plane would be the way to go. But i can find a decent ARF of one.
Thanks for the help though,
Kip

I have been at the two races this year and can vouch for that set up mentioned above. Except the engines are a little bigger, .91 not .091. And I heard one guy say that he was using 30% nitro.

Just as important as the set up is how well you start the race and fly the course, you need a good caller.

Can you buy them uncovered, and where?

I never heard anyone say they bought theirs uncovered. They use ultracoat so it would be easy to strip some off for reinforcing then apply new stuff.

The US distributor is Airborne models in Livermore CA
925-371-0922, might be worth a phone call.

In PJ_TankPilot's post, he said "Get them uncovered".

Paul, did you mean that you uncover them yourself?

>>Paul, did you mean that you uncover them yourself?

No, it was possible to get them bare. I don’t know if it still is. I think you save only 10 USD but because racing in Gold requires beef up, you were going to strip some covering anyway. Also, for static points most people move the tailwheel to scale position.

This aircraft has been hugely popular in SWRA racing since it arrived on the scene. It comes with retracts installed and the price is right. You will find it flying in all three SWRA classes.

I do not do Mustangs but I know enough guys who do. Other than the typo in the engine size, I can assure you this combo is competitive in Gold with a 1:38 breakout.

I was looking at those world models ARF’s and I bet one of the P-82’s with twin YS 91’s would be a screamer, but I couldn’t think of any way to make that three piece wing bullet proof without tearing it apart, and that horizontal stab just looks much to weak. I think it would be too much of a safety risk, and with the amount of people that shows up at the Sacramento races I’m not willing to take a risk like that.

> P-82’s with twin YS 91’s

I have seen this setup. You are correct about the strength problems. It requires major beef-ups. In addition, you have a serious nose heavy problem and the supplied gear cannot handle the extra weight. Two YS 91's weigh a ton.

I saw a World P-82 with two YS 63's. I can't be sure but I think it was flying in Silver.

Are 2 cycle engines competitive in SWRA? Or have the advancements in 4 cycles ruled out 2 cycles?

I've heard a rumor that Mike Del Ponte created a Nelson powered Cub (basically a Q-40) that did well ... have the rules been changed such that a Q-40 or Q-500 engine powered plane is uncompetitive?

>>Are 2 cycle engines competitive in SWRA?

Two cycle engines can compete successfully in all SWRA classes. If you fly in Gold, you will have a problem if the race has DB limits. A high performance engine will have a noise problem, 2 or 4 cycle.

Three or Four years ago, five guys showed up in Tucson with Nelson powered military Cubs (NE-1). They had less wing area than a Q-500. Once you get them up to speed they do very well. At low speed, they are a handful.

Two years ago, the 'Arizona Gang' took some to Sacramento.

You can see a picture of them
Here

Cool photos and planes ... thanks for the link.

Do you know if they had a fiberglass fuselage?

I think my next "pink foam plug" project just changed.

Now I have to get more familiar with the SWRA rules. I read them completely a while back, but the static judging part bothered me some. Probably because what I saw happened with F1, and that was just for takeoff position.

I see mufflers hanging out ... does that hurt the static judging? If not, a muffled tuned pipe would be the ticket for a Q-500 engine powered plane.

How about the airfoil? If it's radically different, does that cause a problem with the judging?

BTW, thanks for posting in the Non-AMA racing classes and the NMPRA topic in the NMPRA forums ... I started to respond, but wanted to leave someone's name besides mine as the last post.

Is there a discussion forum where the SWRA guys hang out?

Do you know if someone kits that white mustang at the top of the page you listed of the SAM races? I swear i used to have a flyer of a plane like that and one that was all red as well but i lost it.

At the last race in Tucson, there was some discussion about how to draw more racers to the event. One topic of debate was whether or not to have static judging. All the rules for the planes "scaleness" would still apply but it would not be scored and added to your racing score. I personally like this idea and prefer just to race. If it weren't for the availability of scale arf's, I personally would not invest the time and effort to compete, just my opinion.

The other issue was the use of a pace plane as opposed to an audible count down. Not using the pace plane reduces the required man power. Using it is unique in model pylon racing and I personally like it. It adds to the thrill and excitement of the event.

These last remaining items were not discussed but are my personal opinion and observations.

I'm not sure how they set up the heat matrix, but it assigns you a lane, which in reallity means nothing. The problem is that two guys in the same class but different heats get assigned the same lane and never race against each other. There were no frequency conflicts at the last event.

There were 6 planes in silver split into 3 plane heats. Two crashed out midway through the event. This meant that 2 heats were flown with only one plane. I can appreciate the easy first place points but this is really a waste of time. If the other guys can't make the call then just give the points to the one who can and move on to the next heat.

This really is a long event, with static on friday night and racing on saturday and sunday morning. This makes it easy for the locals and retired guys with motorhomes but harder on the out of stater's. Doing away with the static like mentioned above would help.

All that being said it really is a fun and well run event with some good close racing.
Clay, if you read this you know who I am, please feel free to comment, I'll still come and race.

>>I see mufflers hanging out ... does that hurt the static judging?
Should not. A muffler is a necessary evil according to the SWRA so it had better not cost you points.

>>static judging part bothered me some.
>>Doing away with the static like mentioned above would help.
I made a suggestion that static judging be used only to resolve ties. The process of getting there on Friday to wait around for hours while static judging grinds slowly is not my idea of fun. Safety inspections could be done Saturday morning (or Friday if you show up early). When the event is finished, all ties would be resolved by 3 static judges in a huddle. They could sort it out in 5 minutes. This system would eliminate the high static score trophy.

>>How about the airfoil? If it's radically different, does that cause a problem with the judging?
I have never heard of this happening. I cannot remember any judge checking out my wing airfoil. I have lost points because my tail feathers were too thin.

>>Is there a discussion forum where the SWRA guys hang out?
Not that I know of. Maybe it’s here.

>>Do you know if they had a fiberglass fuselage?
>>Do you know if someone kits that white mustang at the top of the page
My memory is not that good. I will get the answers to these two questions and post them here.

PJ Tankpilot has it right on all accounts!

I race in the SWRA Gold class with a World P-51 that I bought uncovered. I purchased mine directly from the WM importer in Livermore, CA (about $10 less) and then:
1. Reinforced the landing gear,
2. Built scale tail feathers,
3. Moved the tail wheel forward and the battery back,
4. Used balsa block for the engine cowl, and
5. Use a true turn spinner with a 13x9 APC, & 45 plus % nitro.

Most eveyone in the SWRA uses the WM P-51 with the YS-91 with 45% nitro and routinely fly in the 1.40's

If you 'work' the YS-91 a little, and fly a very good race, you can fly break-out at 1.38, with no cuts, which I did just "one time" in December of 2002 at Speedworld in Phoenix.

Twin's for Gold - I've only seen this done successfully several times by the Morrow's (sic) from Lubbock, TX. Who haven't been to a SWRA race for some time. Their planes were exceptional and the best that I have ever seen. I have the WM F-82 that I've made many changes to, to get it anywhere close to scale, with 2 YS-63's. I've flown this plane only once and it's too fast for Bronze and I think too slow for Silver (but I only had 25% and used an 11x7 APC prop). I seen Jeff Wiess fly this same plane as a demo flight at Sacramento last year, with 2 YS-91's and on left turn the wing folded.

SWRA: The next SWRA races are in September in El Paso, TX (Horizon Field) and Phoenix, AZ (Speedworld at Wittman) in October. For these two races, those who just want to race, do not need to go through scale judging. They will need to pre-register before the race so that matrixing can be completed Friday night and safety inspections for these pilots will take place Saturday morning. For these two races, we also plan to use the count down rather than the pace plane.

Several years ago I preparred eight new aircraft for the Mad Dawgs and new SWRA season. Included were two Keosho ARF 109's with throttled Q500 engines (anybody want to buy some humongous carbs ) and a Royal p-38 piped TT ,61's on 35% and a World ARF F-82.

The 109 Nelsons would have been competitive in Silver but the airframes were to draggy for Gold.

The P-38 at 45 ounce square foot was a snap roller on the hard pull at one and was unable to fly the course close enough to be competitive.

The F-82 with piped OS .61 FX's on 35% was faster than snot but was simply too weak and utimately died of a wing failure. This was despite coverting it to a single peice wing with considerable carbon fibre reinforcement and imobilization of the gear with a reasonable size struts and wheels that you could do more than two landings in a row on without repairs. Both tailwheels were moved to scale position.

At any rate that new season never happened and that was that.

John

>>Do you know if they had a fiberglass fuselage?

You are correct that Mike Del Ponte was a co-conspirator for the original. He also was involved in the production of the ‘fleet’. They are conventional balsa/ply, foam wing and fiberglass cowl.

>>Do you know if someone kits that white mustang at the top of the page

It is a Sky Harbor R/C kit. I think they are no longer in business. The current pilot of the aircraft in the picture is not pleased with the flight characteristics.

Paul,

I was thinking of picking up a WM P-51 and adding a Strega/Dago/etc type of canopy to it and making molds for a fiberglass fuselage out of it. I know WM has the Dago Red, but it seems heavy for the size. And I had thought about making a wing mold for a composite wing also.

Is the WM P-51 wing fully planked?

One other thing I noticed in the pictures is that it looks like someone is making tips for the P-51 wing. Do you know the source?

Also, do you know if anyone has done a Miss Ashley II for SWRA?

Thanks for the info ... Hey MDP, do you still have the plans for the NE-1 ??? And is NE-1 the warbird classification or just something someone ( or anyone ) came up with?

And one more SWRA question. There is an SWRA site, and there is the stuff on http://www.warbirdracing.com ... is the later the original site?

Yes .40 size Quickee engines are competitive.
We fly a .30 size EZ Mustang with a Carbed QuickeeJett and have run below 1:30 in Sacto.
Oh yea, lots of Nitro helps these too!
Look into Air Kill products as well. .25 size Spits and other brand Mustangs show good speed also

The SWRA site is http://www.swraracing.com if I am not mistaken. They list 2003 races there.

World Models have open bays on all of their mustangs. Most are beefing up the wings and sheeting one side of the stab at the least.

I have had the MA2 on the back burner for my next molded model, but no time to do so... I don't think anyone has raced one yet.

Michael

where do you find these 30 size EZ mustangs? I have never heard of them

>>Is the WM P-51 wing fully planked?
No, It is light and fragile.

>>One other thing I noticed in the pictures is that it looks like someone is making tips for the P-51 wing. Do you know the source?
Don’t know.

>>Also, do you know if anyone has done a Miss Ashley II for SWRA?
There have been a few. I think they were individual mods. I can’t remember seeing one in the past few years.

>> And one more SWRA question. There is an SWRA site, and there is the stuff on http://www.warbirdracing.com ... is the later the original site?
That website is mine. It used to be the SWRA site. It had all the documentation, schedules, etc. After the SWRA implosion, the new regime stopped sending me stuff and did a new website. I don’t need additional work, so I never asked. I keep the pictures there and will add to them occasionally. I hate to give up the URL.