What's going on with the SWRA?
 

I think there were 18 pilots, the CD told me that 6 or 8 couldn't make it due to prior commitments. Its an 8 hour drive for me which makes for a long 3 days. Although I'd never discourage more guys from attending, having double the pilots would make those 3 days even longer.

What's going on with the SWRA?
 

I think I can offer a little more on that incident, I was one of those 'two guys'. I think that was three years ago now, my memory is vague on that (I tend to blank out very bad experiances). My team mate and I had completed a full SWRA season the year before and this race was in January and was to be the start of a new season for points and this was to be a big deal for us and we wanted to do it up right. when we arrived at the 'barn' on friday about nine PM in the dark and rain (the judging went well past midnight) we had seven new airplanes and gear that I had spent the last six months prepareing just for the new season at considerable cost.

Now let me say, that prior season for the last three races the rules were different each time with no real notifacation (None of the leaders apparently understood the need for rule cycles, indeed). Nelson engines had commonly been used for the full season that we raced by others, we just wanted to be competitive and have good equipment and two of those seven airplanes in the rig did have throttled Nelson's. One week before the new season race I received the race flyer calling out a decible level. In a panic I bought a meter and did all sorts of testing and yes the Nelsons were over the unrealistic limit but we had five more airplanes for multiple classes and all within the limits.

Now the plot thickens. The first airplane I carried into the barn that night was a twin that had two totally stock 61FX's with tuned mufflers that were legal as far as I could tell and were commonly used by many the prior year. Well I was summarily stopped at the door standing in the cold rain and was told you can,t race that airplane with those Nelson's! Well, with my mouth standing open in total shock (knowing that ship was well within the limits having tested the level for days), I mumbled something to the effect, are you the CD and he said the CD sent him to inform me. This individual would not even inform me face to face. The ironic part is the two Nelson powered airplanes never even made it out of the truck. Nothing would convince those people that the airplane I was standing there holding right in from of their faces did not have Nelsons (an engine by the way that was not illegal) they would not even allow a sound test after I offered them the use of my meter. Only just offering the statement " I know how loud those things are"!!

What really had happened is unknown to us we had been used as guiena pigs between to differant ego groups in a political war and all eyes were on us that night awaiting our arrival to see which group would win. There were no winners! It was on that cold rainy night that the old Swra was destroyed, most of the races that year were cancilled, and its never recovered to its former glory.

Needless to say: Never agine nor would I even sport fly at that field of ego's agine. In fact the only thing I ever will attend in that town agine is the Vintage Stunt Championship, but then agine thats Ukie and those folks really know how to run an event and a SIG group!

The last few years I have only raced Q500 and its been a far more fulfilling experiance than that one wasted season with the Swra. Not only that you really are racing, no more 'sport car rallies'.

Gentlemen
If you want to race, you simply have to have uncorruptable rules, there has to be a predictable 'rule cycle' And if you are going to be a SIG then you have have national uniform rules also. That I sincerely believe is something 424 could benefit from too.

John

What's going on with the SWRA?
 

Quote:

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Gentlemen
If you want to race, you simply have to have uncorruptable rules, there has to be a predictable 'rule cycle' And if you are going to be a SIG then you have have national uniform rules also. That I sincerely believe is something 424 could benefit from too.

---

John,

Your last paragraph sums up my feelings exactly! I couldn't say it any better. It's when people say "Let's just keep it simple. Minimum rules, maximum FUN!" This is a good intention but the lack of clear guidelines and expectations will ultimately lead to the situation you describe in the SWRA.

Excellent post!

What's going on with the SWRA?
 

Excellent post, John. I was running all YS 120's and was told at Tucson (when the rule went into effect) that I had to have a muffler on my engines because of excessive noise (like it really mattered way out in the boonies). To make matters worse, all but one of my unmuffled engines met the ridiculous DB limit (unrealistic for racers anyway) WITHOUT mufflers and with straight exhaust pipes. Didn't matter... I was required to put a "muffler" on all my engines anyway (for noise control it was explained, plus the rules required them). The CD specified the minimum size "can" we had to run - never mind that it didn't really do anything for noise control. Problem was, the vibrations kept breaking header pipes and there was no way I could keep the mufflers on my engines. Didn't make any difference, the rule was: no muffler, no run!!!! Never mind that absolutely NO one ever checked the DB's before, during, or after a race that I knew about, we just had to have a minimum size "can" on our engines to be in compliance with the rule, or we couldn't run (never mind whether it muffled anything or not). There was no way we could keep the "can" on the engine during a heat, so that meant putting a new header/muffler on each engine after almost EVERY heat so we could run the next one. Do you know what a YS 120 header and muffler combo cost??? Either put a new muffler/header on the engine almost every run, or get rid of the YS 120's that I was running (eight of them) and go to a different engine (you want to count the cost of 8 YS 120's tweaked for racing??!!!). Never mind that the 2 strokes with nitro pipes weren't DB checked either, they met the rule of having a muffler (although they would knock your ears off). I was pretty disgusted about the whole muffler/noise thing (and wrote a long protest letter to SWRA) that the issue was supposed to be NOISE CONTROL, but it had degenerated into a mandatory muffler rule that was meaningless and unrealistic for noise control. The powers in SWRA ignored the protest, and dumped the issue directly on each CD to enforce and decide. That's when it went to Hell with each CD deciding what limit to set, and what size muffler to require at each particular race. There was no way we could comply, and we were never sure we could race each time we made the drive over. That's when I decided the whole noise control thing was just an excuse to try to slow us down or maybe show who had the biggest stick - enough of the p**sing contest with the Tucson CD and others who supported the "noise" issue. I decided I had better things to do with my time and money. I've still got most of my stuff, but am doing other things now, and don't know if I'll ever come back - too many politics over stupid stuff instead of racing!!!!

Again, I'd still like to race, but not under the muffler rule nonsense, and now it appears the AMA has put additional silly rules in place to make it even more difficult. If you want to know what impact the muffler rule had - compare the average race turnout before and after it went into effect. Before, we used to average 50 to 60 pilots and around 70 - 80 or more airplanes in the heats at each race. After everyone got a bellyfull of the arbitrary rules making, it now runs around 15 to 20 entrants (maybe), and around 15 to 20 airplanes at each race. So tell me how effective these rules have been. Sure controlled the noise alright, but by pretty much killing the event for everyone. All of the hard core racers have pretty much drifted away into other competitive events - it may be impossible to bring them back like it was before. Too bad, it was really something to have all the scale birds racing with REAL competition. I miss it!!

Regards, Les Morrow

What's going on with the SWRA?
 

Wow, I can't believe it was so bad when this last event was such a fun and definitely low key event. Aren't there new officers now in place of the ones a few years ago?

At the last race there was no mention of a DB limit, or any noise enforcement. Everyone had a muffler, both 2 and 4 stroke, some even had safety wire in place. It wasn't even mentioned at Tech inspection or in the pilots meeting that you had to have one, but everyone did. Some planes were definitely louder than others though.

I'm glad things have changed, apparently for the better. Its an 8 hour drive one way for me, and I will go back. Nuf said.

What's going on with the SWRA?
 

From what I have heard and seen, SWRA Mini-Reno racing is in decline but NON-SWRA Mini-Reno racing in California is growing. If Mother Nature rules, the California format will get going in Arizona and Texas and participation levels may get back to what they used to be. I still enjoy 2 pole warbird racing and would like to see it come back. I plan to do one race in Sacramento and one in Phoenix this year. 3 pole Q-500 racing will have to fill up the remaining time.

I was on the SWRA board when the explosion took place and wish to avoid that type activity for a while. I will not re-hash what really happened.

Les Morrow:

Come on over to Phoenix this October. We suspend the SWRA muffler rule for our race. You can burn 80% nitro with a straight pipe and make all the noise you want. Every racer knows that sound is an essential part of the thrill of racing.

What's going on with the SWRA?
 

PJ, I just might do that. I have a scratch built P-40 ready to cover that will run a YS 120SC on 65%. All I need to do is to build the wing fillets, cover, and paint it and I'm ready to go. I was really into it when everything hit the fan, and I decided to stop working on it. What is the date of your race? Are you gonna run it under the SWRA rules for displacement, static judging, etc? I wouldn't mind pushing the envelope again, if I didn't have to worry about bringing enough mufflers to make it through the weekend :-))!!

I've got enough time to finish the bird and get ready if I decide to come over - might just be the ticket to get going again.

Let me know.

Regards, Les

What's going on with the SWRA?
 

Les Morrow:

The race will be in October this year. It was in December last year. It is an SWRA race so the rules are the same except for the silly muffler rule.

Make sure you check with the CD before coming all the way to Phoenix. I assume we will use the same rules this year as last but assumptions are a bad idea. If we force 4-strokes to use mufflers, we would lose a bunch of entries including me.

What's going on with the SWRA?
 

Just out of curiosity, how much difference to you see in speed and rpm with and without a muffler on a 4 stroke?

What's going on with the SWRA?
 

>>Just out of curiosity, how much difference to you see in speed and rpm with and without a muffler on a 4 stroke?

It’s not a case of ‘Remove the muffler, reduce back pressure, and your engine runs faster’.

To get the maximum speed from a YS 4-stroke, you increase the nitro, a lot. The max is around 80% because you have to have some room for oil and methanol. When you increase the nitro, the amount of heat generated goes way up. If you cannot get the heat out of the engine, you will literally burn it up. So any impediment to the exhaust gases must be removed, like a muffler.

Typically, you increase the prop size when you increase the nitro. The RPM may not be any higher but the airplane speed increases.

One of the advantages of YS engines is the pressurized fuel system. No muffler pressure required and you can put the tank almost anywhere.

What's going on with the SWRA?
 

Guys, I was running modified YS 120 SC's on 65% nitro with a 14/13 or 14/14 narrow APC props, and was turning around the high 9's static. Frankly, I couldn't tell ANY difference between rpm or noise with or without a muffler. The problem I had was, I could NOT keep a stock muffler on the engine more than one heat under those conditions (too much vibration which kept breaking the header or muffler). I did all the usual stuff, balance props, spinners, hard mount the engine, safety wire the muffler, etc., but I think we were pushing the engines so hard the muffler/header system couldn't keep up and fractured during pretty much every heat. It got much too expensive and difficult to replace the stock header/muffler each and every heat to keep a dictatorial CD happy - especially when absolutely NO ONE checked DB's and the 2 stroke Nelsons were much noiser (but they had the required muffler!!!!). I was also running a twin Webra Speed 60 bird with nitro pipes (on purpose to test the noise issue) during this time, which was way, WAY more noisy than my 120's and was NEVER challenged or DB measured (the twin also had the required mufflers per the rule!!!!). That's why I decided the rule was absolutely silly and meant nothing. I made my own 120 mufflers the last year I raced which did absolutely nothing for noise (couldn't tell any difference with or without mufflers anyway) but were small enough that the engine wouldn't shake them off, but still met the original muffler rule. SWRA responded by making a modification to the original muffler rule to require a minimum diameter and length which killed my efforts and pushed me back into the breaking the header every heat. I couldn't get any relief from the SWRA, or the CD's, so I finally decided to just quit racing, back up, take a deep breath, and re-evaluate what I was doing. Remember, during all this hassle, no one was checking DB levels, and none of the two strokes were being challenged regardless of how noisy they were. For some reason, the SWRA brass decided to make an example of the 4 strokes (never mind they weren't the really noisy engines) - I think because they were pretty much always in the winners circle, and the two strokes couldn't keep up. I don't have a problem with any rule that has a basis in logic, does somthing positive for the sport, and is fairly enforced, but this rule seemed to become a big stick to beat people up for no real gain.

Sorry to go off on a tangent, but IMHO, the muffler rule pretty much killed SWRA for no real reason other than petty bureacuracy.

Really too bad - we had a real fun competition event with real hard, head to head racing before the muffler rule spoiled everything for everybody.

Regards, Les

What's going on with the SWRA?
 

I almost hate to say this but I don't think SWRA ever intended their events to be such hard core, pushing the envelope type of competition that it turned into. The one and only event I attended could not have been more opposite. It was totally low key and relaxed, there was still some close racing in all the classes. The static score being half your total would indicate to me they are thinking along these lines.
Perhaps their bad attempt to regulate mufflers was a way to keep things low key and enjoyable for the masses, who knows, but things have seemed to have changed.

I can't say this enough, it was a great event with some great people involved. There is no prize money, you won't appear on Letterman and there is no trophy girl to kiss, that only leaves one thing, doing it for fun. Sure I'd like to win the event, but there is more to it than that. If cutting edge technology and intense competition is what your after you need to fly Q40.

These are just my observations and opinions, and I certainly don't mean to offend anyone. :)

What's going on with the SWRA?
 

>>I don't think SWRA ever intended their events to be such hard core…….

That’s pretty bold statement unless you have been in the SWRA for a long time.

What the SWRA intends at any given moment depends on who’s on the board. The board sets the rules and the rules implement intent, even though the agenda is not always clear.

The reason the SWRA developed three classes was to address your point. Bronze was for new racers and experienced racers who just want to take it easy. Silver for those who want it faster and more intense. Gold was for all out balls to the wall racing and in the past did not have a breakout time. Many former SWRA members think they had it right then.

What's going on with the SWRA?
 

I forgot the break out times were only added recently, that puts a little different spin on it all.

What's going on with the SWRA?
 

Yeah PJ, you got it right. I was involved back then and us hard core types had a blast until the "chicken little" types and AMA started getting nervous about the Gold speeds and clamped down by adding the breakout in Gold. My son and I used to race in all three classes - usually both of us in Gold, and one in Silver and the other in Bronze (we swapped out from race date to another as the mood hit us). It was pretty intense, but after all, that's what we always came for - the racing with airplanes that looked like real airplanes!!!! We raced in Bronze to relax and enjoy the company, Silver to increase the pressure a little, and Gold for all out head to head combat with the adrenalin flowing - what a blast!!!!!! Even when SWRA put the breakout on Gold (which was a mistake IMHO), it was still a lot of fun, but you had to be careful to not break out and get a zero - it then became more of a game of strategy rather than a money pit. It stopped the deep pockets from outspending everyone else for a win, and made the price reasonable while still being competitive in Gold. There weren't all that many Gold racers who could consistently break out, but there were a few (we had a couple of airplanes that could turn in the low 1:20's pretty much all the time), so I didn't think the breakout hurt the Gold all that much. I did like it better without the breakout, but could live with, and be competitive with the breakout in Gold anyway. The SWRA had a workable, winning formula before the Gold breakout was put in place (it even still worked pretty well after the Gold breakout was added, although not as much fun in Gold) - it still seemed to work pretty well for EVERYBODY regardless of how intense you were (or not). Didn't really matter where you were coming from, it really met everybody's needs back then. But when AMA got involved and the SWRA brass started tinkering with the rules, was when SWRA started the decline.

Still too bad... was a really GREAT way to fly!!!!! Sure hated that all the intense racers left during the controversy - I would hope it could be restored to what it was someday, who knows? As far as I'm concerned, there just isn't anything that compares to the head to head racing with scale birds like SWRA used to be. Painless, you mentioned that if all I wanted was racing, I should go to Q-40?? Frankly, if all I was after was just the racing competition, I'd never have risked a drop dead scale bird in racing like I did, and would have been doing Q40 all along, but I like scale and REALLY liked the mini-Reno concept. I not only went after the racing, I went after the scale trophies, too. Too bad it died - sure was a sure fire spectator event!!!!! They LOVED it and so did the pilots.

Hope it can be remedied some day!!!

Regards, Les

What's going on with the SWRA?
 

"Hope it can be remedied some day!!!"

I think it has, I saw none of what has been described in the posts above. Totally fun event. Although I was not inovlved back when all the problems started, I'd say they have worked through them.

Jetjockey, come out in May and see for yourself.

What's going on with the SWRA?
 

>>Too bad it died - sure was a sure fire spectator event!!!!! They LOVED it and so did the pilots.

It’s even better than that. My club has 2 world class races (Q-500 and Q40) every year and 1 SWRA race. It takes a lot of dedicated people to properly run race events. If you ask our member workers which race they enjoy, they will tell you the warbird race is the one they like the best.

Two years ago, we had a Silver heat with two guys who duked it out for 10 laps, trading places on almost every lap. A Mustang and Corsair being flow by two people whose age difference was 60 years !! Yippee !!

What's going on with the SWRA?
 

I've left an e-mail for the Jet Jockey to also to check into the El Paso Race in September, as this may be closer and have also invited him to come to Phoenix in October.

I'll be at the May race.

It was my understanding that there may be an experimental AT-6 (Great Planes) race in lieu of the Novice Class. Get your GP AT-6 today and drop in your .40 2-cycle, side exhast, for under $ 200 and be there or be square. More details to follow I'm sure.

I've done some recent research on warbird racing and will post an update on my findings shortly.

Any kind of racing will do in a

AT-6 Racing
 

Indeed there will be a race using the "Mesa" rules for the T-6 class racing in Tucson this May. There have been 2 races, Feb and April (this month). The way the rules work is that any race where 15 or more pilots race, the rules may be amended. This occured after the April race. The rules are changed by majority vote.

Basically, the GP T-6 model is to be utlized in a stock configuration, recovering is allowed, but you must use the orginal wing tips. Retracts allowed.

An OS .40 FX is the only engine allowed to be used (this was a close vote in the April race) along with either Slimline Pitts, Bison Pitts or Jett Turbo-Jett mufflers. Note that the Stock muffler is not allowed.. ..oh, don't slip in that .46 liner just yet, we might check..

This was done since the AMA changes to 2 pole racing changed the way things were laid out for races where the engine size was larger than .40. This allowed the Mesa club (Arizona Model Aviators) to keep their perm. pylon locations.

Hope this helps..