multimike

I have been wanting to build and an Avro Arrow and so far have not had much success any suggestions Mike

multimike

Whoops I meant I was looking for PLANS to scratch build one Mike

Mustang Fever

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Take a look at this first: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s..._EDF_ARF_.html

and this: http://www.kmp.ca/product_info.php?c...6ffe1a71158281

Props4ever

HK got it all wrong on aircraft number relating to the livery on there model.

25206 was all white Arrow without any dayglow on it, it was also MkII variant with Canadian Orenda Iroquois engines, it was doing ground testing when "X" was thrown on the whole project by stupid conservative government back in 1959....

It was Arrow 25203 that wore this dayglow livery and also had Ontario province's flag on it's tail. Btw 203 was the only aircraft out of 6 prototypes built and 5 flown that wore Ontario flag on it's tail.

rmaddy

Here's some info on plans:

http://www.aviationtrivia.info/Avro-CF-105-Arrow.php

Mustang Fever

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Here's a good three view:

http://www.avro-arrow.org/images/arc...ore/arrow2.gif

You could do some decent fuse plans from a 3 view, as the Arrow is a somewhat simple shape. For wings, I would use a variation of the ones from Laddie Mikulasko's Arrow flying boat (proven to fly well- I have two of them).

Mustang Fever

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This site has the best collection of Arrow pix I've found:

http://www.avro-arrow.org/Arrow/picts.html

multimike

Thanks Bob Mike

Mustang Fever

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You're very welcome, Mike.

I think a scratched Arrow would make a great project. I also think the commercially available ones are too heavy. The trick with deltas is to keep the wing loading under 20 oz per square foot. At that, they take off very easily at very low speeds and land just as slowly. With that boxy shape, I think it would be possible to make a very light, all balsa fuse. The balsa and ply (with CF tube spars) Mikulasko Arrow wings build very light- the ones in the picture are 8 oz apiece, ready to bolt onto the airplane, and there's only about 10 degrees difference in the sweep angle from the prototype. I think I'd forego landing gear and use a bungee launch. It'll fly better and be quite a bit lighter.

I just got back from the second day of flying my new, electric powered Mikulasko Arrow, and when I paced off the landing track in the snow it came to under 40 feet.

It's weight that has kept me out of the electric DF world- everything I've considered (F-106, CF-105, F-4) has a wing loading in the vicinity of 40 oz per square foot. Landing is not such the issue, a delta can be brought right down to the ground in a nose low glide and then pulled up at an impossible angle (for conventional wings, anyway) for a slow, easy touchdown. It's TO that's the nut- unless one has access to a paved runway, bumpy grass fields are going to prevent the bird from accelerating to a safe liftoff speed. Add to that the possibility of fodding a very expensive EDF unit with pebbles, dirt, etc., and I said no to all my pet projects.

I wish the Canadian government had told the U.S. to go hang and put the Arrow in service. It was so superior to that dog, the F-102, that it wasn't worth discussing.(Pressure from Convair and the U.S. Congress had a lot to do with cancellation of the project.) We now know there was a Soviet mole inside Avro Canada, but hell, they had moles everywhere. The U.S. defense establishment was riddled with them. (This all came out after the collapse of the Soviet Union, along with the fact that the Rosenbergs were, in fact, Soviet spies and got exactly what they deserved.)

I put pics of my electric Arrow, glow Arrow, and the Bullet (a scratch built fuse using the Arrow wings, w/retracts) for reference. The built up wings are now reserved to the Bullet, I made a set of foam cored ones for the Arrows.

multimike

Great stuff!! I have been at this hobby for 60 year and always finding a new challenge, I design and build right from scratch so the Arrow is a whole new ball of wax, I am looking at 1/12 scale and my target weight would HOPEFULLY by around 10 lbs attached is a picture on\f my latest project which got me started thinking about a prop driven Arrow

multimike

Whoops forgot to load them Mike

Mustang Fever

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Nice looking T bird!

That's the only fighter jet type I ever got a ride in when I was in the USAF.

multimike

I had lots of misgiving when I designed it but it I had to put all he R/C right in the tail end to get the C/G right but it flew like a dream, Mike

Mustang Fever

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Mike:

That's exactly what I had to do with the Bullet. I shortened it about a foot (from the original Arrow design) and put everything I could way in the back- servos, battery, radio. I still needed about a half pound of lead in the tail to get the CG right. The only stuff not in the back is the landing gear and servo, and the engine and fuel tank.

I call it the Bullet because the shape, at least in the front 2/3, is that of a .50 caliber Browning machine gun bullet, like the Bell X-1 was.

multimike

At 76 years young I am being dragged kicking and screaming into the world of ARF, foamies and electric flight, some of the stuff out there now is mind boggling,to late for me to change now, to many years and too much invested, I have around 30 aircraft that I have designed ranging for J3 to 103 inch C130 and pretty well everything in between Mike

multimike

Looks like you and I are on the same wave length, how big is that bird? Mike

Mustang Fever

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Mike:

The Laddie Mikulasko Arrow has a 45" wingspan and is about 53" long. Mine both weigh about 6.5 pounds. My glow one has an O.S. .46AX engine and the electric uses a Rimfire 32 with a 5S pack.

I was just thinking last night that Laddie's Plans could be easily modified to get a rather scale looking Arrow, leaving the engine and prop high up on the tail. Having it in the back like that really makes balancing a lot easier, and eliminates the need for long landing gear. The critical thing with an engine located there is to put 5 degrees downthrust on it, so the handling will be good. (The plans do not show that- I learned about it by destroying three of them before I got two that fly right.)

The length to wingspan ratio on Laddie's Arrow is 1.17 : 1. The full size Arrow's is 1.4 : 1, so you'd have to stretch it a little (to about 63") to make it look right. That should work ok as long as you put a little more sweep into the wing panels, to match the 3 view drawing.

The plans are available from RCM online plans service at this location:

http://www.rcmplans.com/index.php?ma...oducts_id=2148

Don't feel bad about being tempted by ARFs, etc. I have 12 flyable airplanes now. 5 are ARFs, 2 from kits, 4 from plans and 1 own design. The ARFs were all bought because of guys on RCU talking about how great they flew: Top Flite 60 Mustang, Top Flite B-25, Outlaw delta, Hangar 9 Pulse 60 and 25. They were correct, and I fly all those airplanes on a regular basis. The thing about ARFs, too, is that the manufacturers are constantly making little improvements to the assembly process, and you can observe those little tricks and apply them to your own builds.

multimike

WOW!! I am so glad we somehow hooked up, I figured Laddie must have some plans out there, you have given me so much good info THANK YOU !!! MIke

multimike

Ok plans have been ordered, my biggest hang ups was the airfoils for the wing so this will start me in the right direction MIke

Mustang Fever

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Glad I could help, Mike.

Here's a shot of an Arrow wing before sheeting. Also, here's the address of my Arrow build thread. Start on page 11, down near the bottom. All the tricks that I learned from building 5 of them (6 if you count the Bullet) are in here.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_72...11/key_/tm.htm

Please make sure to post your progress, here so we can keep up with you.

Also, note that the girls at RCM plans service had some family problems recently and are kind of behind. When they are in good shape, it usually takes about 6 weeks to get plans from them.

Mustang Fever

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Mike:

I was surfing around and came across this. Thought you might want to look at it.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77941

multimike

Thanks Don, lots of good info and 3 views, Merry Christmas Mike

multimike

This was taken after my first flight!, on my 10 flight it suddenly went into a flat spin for no apparent reason and I was to low to get out of it, it was quite spectacular and I wish I knew just how to do it and recover in time, it damaged one wing panel and some damage to the rudder , all repaired and ready to try again Mike

Mustang Fever

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Mike-

I had four models that went into unrecoverable spins and crashed. In all four cases, the CG was a bit too far aft. One thing to watch for is when you throttle back and glide, on a bird that is trimmed well for cruising, does the tail kind of drop by itself. That usually indicates that the bird is close to being tail heavy.

multimike

Thanks Bob, I know I worked hard to get the C/G right, I never considered whet might happen if I was running low on fuel with that long nose moment, I will check it again with an empty tank Mike