my first project
04-14-2005, 02:05 AM
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my first project
ive got an old timer coming that im going to tinker with, but its going to be a long 6weeks before i recover from a severe staff infection that literaly has eaten a hole in my foot. im going to have 10+man hours(when i can sleep) to put into building, so i think i may work on two projects at once to keep myself entertained.
i had ordered plans during the summer for a helldiver(i beleive its scale, ill have to get the eact dimension on it. its an old control line plan however, so its going to be a trip filled with learning to build it. my questions is this, how much leeway do i have with these plans? to tell you the truth, it doesnt talk about what alot of things like the central spar that runs down the body is made of.
i guess the more important question is, will yall be willing to help a newb
. if i post pictures and detailed descriptions, do yall think you could help me with material selections?
thanks in advance for any help anyone can give. im in this for the challenge. one nice thing about it, the wood for this plane should not be ungodly expensive, and if i screw it upp i will abandon or fix it before it costs to much.
btw, what is the best type of plywood to use in construction such as this? will normal high grade ply work or is there something special i need to pick up? also, when the plans call for say, a "pine spar" is it refering to lumber(ie ripped from a pine board) or a good quality ply strip.
I know i sound fairly incompetent, but i have had a good bit of experience with carpentry, i just want to do this the right way the first time. i found long ago, talk to the people who do this alot, and it comes out better than if you half way it
i had ordered plans during the summer for a helldiver(i beleive its scale, ill have to get the eact dimension on it. its an old control line plan however, so its going to be a trip filled with learning to build it. my questions is this, how much leeway do i have with these plans? to tell you the truth, it doesnt talk about what alot of things like the central spar that runs down the body is made of.
i guess the more important question is, will yall be willing to help a newb
. if i post pictures and detailed descriptions, do yall think you could help me with material selections?thanks in advance for any help anyone can give. im in this for the challenge. one nice thing about it, the wood for this plane should not be ungodly expensive, and if i screw it upp i will abandon or fix it before it costs to much.
btw, what is the best type of plywood to use in construction such as this? will normal high grade ply work or is there something special i need to pick up? also, when the plans call for say, a "pine spar" is it refering to lumber(ie ripped from a pine board) or a good quality ply strip.
I know i sound fairly incompetent, but i have had a good bit of experience with carpentry, i just want to do this the right way the first time. i found long ago, talk to the people who do this alot, and it comes out better than if you half way it
04-14-2005, 05:48 AM
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RE: my first project
well i got down in the floor with the plans and did some cutting out of patterns(ill finish making patterns off the bigger drawings tommorow.
These plans are odd in that, if it wants plywood, it says it . otherwise it just gives thickness and dimension. should everything else be balsa?
These plans are odd in that, if it wants plywood, it says it . otherwise it just gives thickness and dimension. should everything else be balsa?
04-14-2005, 12:37 PM
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RE: my first project
Yes, everything else will be balsa.
Many old control line models were designed and built like bricks. Chances are that you can easily reduce all the wood sizes by at least one size and still have lots of strength. One often used way of building those older designs used the center keel or crutch. But wood at the center of your model does nothing for strength later on other than act as a place to mount the bellcrank for control line models. So plan on using it but don't glue anything to it so you can extract it later once the fuselage is planked or sheeted or stringered or whatever.
And to help ensure lower weight you should really choose your balsa carefully. Balsawood has by far the widest density range of any wood so it's important to select the lighter stock for the uses where the most volume is used. Keep the heavier stock for the areas where extra strength is needed like spars and such.
Lastly, it may be possible to swap some of the plywood for balsa. Here again I'm basing this on the fact that many older control line scale designs were grossly overbuilt.
This is all very generalized as without seeing the plans it's impossible to make specific recomendations.
Many old control line models were designed and built like bricks. Chances are that you can easily reduce all the wood sizes by at least one size and still have lots of strength. One often used way of building those older designs used the center keel or crutch. But wood at the center of your model does nothing for strength later on other than act as a place to mount the bellcrank for control line models. So plan on using it but don't glue anything to it so you can extract it later once the fuselage is planked or sheeted or stringered or whatever.
And to help ensure lower weight you should really choose your balsa carefully. Balsawood has by far the widest density range of any wood so it's important to select the lighter stock for the uses where the most volume is used. Keep the heavier stock for the areas where extra strength is needed like spars and such.
Lastly, it may be possible to swap some of the plywood for balsa. Here again I'm basing this on the fact that many older control line scale designs were grossly overbuilt.
This is all very generalized as without seeing the plans it's impossible to make specific recomendations.
04-14-2005, 01:01 PM
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RE: my first project
ok thats actualy pretty enlightning. im already seeing places were that might be the case(i was raising my eyebrows at the need for 1/4 ply in some places) i may take some pics of the plans later and get some input.
04-14-2005, 05:36 PM
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RE: my first project
ORIGINAL: txaggie08
ok thats actualy pretty enlightning. im already seeing places were that might be the case(i was raising my eyebrows at the need for 1/4 ply in some places) i may take some pics of the plans later and get some input.
ok thats actualy pretty enlightning. im already seeing places were that might be the case(i was raising my eyebrows at the need for 1/4 ply in some places) i may take some pics of the plans later and get some input.
Note by the way (since you say you are new to this) that the plywood is either "aircraft grade" or "lite ply", neither of which is the common plywood you see at the lumber dealer. I only point this out in case you were unaware - if this is old news, forgive the reminder.
04-15-2005, 07:53 PM
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RE: my first project
nope feel free to throw any reminders and pointers you can think of at me ill go by my local hobby shop when he opens and see if he has some.im realy new, so anything you recommend or remind me of is going to be news to me in all likely hood
ill go by my local hobby shop when he opens and see if he has some.im realy new, so anything you recommend or remind me of is going to be news to me in all likely hood
04-16-2005, 08:13 PM
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RE: my first project
well a change in project. i found a set of plans for 30$ for a giant mustang, so i think ill work on it. its supposedly scale but i need to do some measurments. its 86.9 inches long in the fuselage and 203 in the wing. its a big plane, but it will be alot of fun. ill have to get the plans here to see what there like, but this one is actualy a r/c plane.
shouldnt be alot different in construction
shouldnt be alot different in construction
04-17-2005, 09:23 AM
#8
RE: my first project
Since this is going to be your first scratch build, you may be a lot better off doing something relatively easy the first time. Perhaps something like a Cessna Birddog, or if you want a sport plane, something like a Bingo (basicly a 4* clone).
This will give you an opportunity to do a scratch model and learn A LOT in the process. A prime example is: With the 60 size Bingo, the plane is over built. Rib thickness is 1/8" on the plans. 3/32" is all that is needed on a plane this size. There were no lightining holes (or for running servo wires ) shown on the plans for the wing ribs and no lightening holes for the fuselage. I think you get the general idea, but by doing one of those planes, you will be able to see where you can lighten things up (saving quite a bit of weight in total ) without sacrificing strength and various ways to do things. There are several different ways to do any given thing when building from scratch. All of them are right, just one method may be better for you personally.
For the firewall and landing gear support, you want aircraft grade ply wood. All other areas, you USUALLY (depending on the size of the model and how it is designed to be flown) can use lite ply or balsa.
Hope this helps.
This will give you an opportunity to do a scratch model and learn A LOT in the process. A prime example is: With the 60 size Bingo, the plane is over built. Rib thickness is 1/8" on the plans. 3/32" is all that is needed on a plane this size. There were no lightining holes (or for running servo wires ) shown on the plans for the wing ribs and no lightening holes for the fuselage. I think you get the general idea, but by doing one of those planes, you will be able to see where you can lighten things up (saving quite a bit of weight in total ) without sacrificing strength and various ways to do things. There are several different ways to do any given thing when building from scratch. All of them are right, just one method may be better for you personally.
For the firewall and landing gear support, you want aircraft grade ply wood. All other areas, you USUALLY (depending on the size of the model and how it is designed to be flown) can use lite ply or balsa.
Hope this helps.
04-17-2005, 03:50 PM
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RE: my first project
im for shure going to work on the kit i have before i dare to step off into a scratch built. im not shure what ill work on as a first scratch. were can i get plans for those planes you listed? would either of those(or is there one you could suggest) that would be a fairly easy plane to fly. Im just stepping off into the hobby, and im going to build an old timer in an electric version(i think) to learn to fly with (i have some experience with park flyers and control lines....... i think i MIGHT get away soloing on the old timer.....if nto ill rebuild it and go find an instructor). i would, if i was going to build something besides a warbird or scale model, like to build something i might be able to fly as a second plane. the main thing im interested in is building(i love to build models, and they dont get much better than this......these actualy DO something ), but flying will be the icing on the cake.
ill look for the plans for those on ebay. i just bought the p-51 plans but i might have a few extra $$ to pick em up if there cheap
), but flying will be the icing on the cake.ill look for the plans for those on ebay. i just bought the p-51 plans but i might have a few extra $$ to pick em up if there cheap
04-17-2005, 06:18 PM
#10
RE: my first project
Either of those planes are easy to fly, HOWEVER, neither one is a trainer.
Just starting out you want a trainer. Trainers are USUALLY high wing, flat bottom airfoil, with dihedrahl (wing tips are higher than the center of the wing ) for stability. The Old Timer is a 3 channel plane (rudder elevator and throttle ) and a tail dragger. While you can learn on a 3 channel glow plane, it is USUALLY suggested that a glow trainer be 4 channel (rudder, elevator, AILERON and throttle ) AND tricycle gear for better ground handling while you are learning.
Once you learn how to fly a trainer, MANY people go to a low wing aerobatic trainer. The Bingo is perfect for that, as it is a low wing aerobatic trainer. If you want a warbird ( as many pilots do ) go with the Cessna Birddog as a first warbird. The Birddog has none of the bad habits of most warbirds. Frequently, warbirds are overweight so you have a high wing loading. This in turn, means noticably higher landing speeds, tip stalling, and often, the glide factor of a rock (Sometimes the rock will actually have a better glide factor ).
Radio Control Modeler has plans for sale and you should be able to get the plans there. You might also contact "Marwen". He is one of the moderators here. I know he has Bingo plans and most likely has some Birddog plans also.
Hope this helps.
Just starting out you want a trainer. Trainers are USUALLY high wing, flat bottom airfoil, with dihedrahl (wing tips are higher than the center of the wing ) for stability. The Old Timer is a 3 channel plane (rudder elevator and throttle ) and a tail dragger. While you can learn on a 3 channel glow plane, it is USUALLY suggested that a glow trainer be 4 channel (rudder, elevator, AILERON and throttle ) AND tricycle gear for better ground handling while you are learning.
Once you learn how to fly a trainer, MANY people go to a low wing aerobatic trainer. The Bingo is perfect for that, as it is a low wing aerobatic trainer. If you want a warbird ( as many pilots do ) go with the Cessna Birddog as a first warbird. The Birddog has none of the bad habits of most warbirds. Frequently, warbirds are overweight so you have a high wing loading. This in turn, means noticably higher landing speeds, tip stalling, and often, the glide factor of a rock (Sometimes the rock will actually have a better glide factor ).
Radio Control Modeler has plans for sale and you should be able to get the plans there. You might also contact "Marwen". He is one of the moderators here. I know he has Bingo plans and most likely has some Birddog plans also.
Hope this helps.
04-17-2005, 06:25 PM
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RE: my first project
i think a friend of mine has a trainer im going to help him fix and use(he just called me so this is a new development) either way, at least it will be fun to build the old timer , and itll give me a chance to gather experience with building, even if i cant fly it immediatly
, and itll give me a chance to gather experience with building, even if i cant fly it immediatly
04-18-2005, 11:26 PM
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RE: my first project
Would a cub be a decent idea. i was looking at some study plans and they dont look horrible(compared to this helldiver.......i think thats one i want two or three times building before i try...... ) ive also heard they make good second planes(i know i flew a control line one as a trainer once). just looking for ideas, i thought maybe with it being high wing and (from what ive been told) a pretty gentle plain, it might be a build i could look into. im trying to find a set of plans for an actual trainer, but they seem to be pretty rare. anyone have some(ill buy them, not looking for handouts particularly)or know were i can get them(ive been looking on the web, i guess im just blind)?
ok another question. whats the best way to cut this realy light ply and balsa. ive got a dremel and can pick up the router/cut off wheel attachment for it, or i could get a decent little hand held jigsaw. i can get acces to a table saw, and i might build myself a table stand for the jigsaw(never have been willing to buy table tools, i build stand and attach them. it realy works quite well and gets you great custimization options), but ive never worked with balsa this light. just looking for yalls opinions. im sorry if im annoying with all the questions, im just happy to find something that i can do while im laid up(this is realy miserable, ive had to give up ALL of my hobbys, my college career(till the fall), and most of my mobility because of the wound on my foot)
ok another question. whats the best way to cut this realy light ply and balsa. ive got a dremel and can pick up the router/cut off wheel attachment for it, or i could get a decent little hand held jigsaw. i can get acces to a table saw, and i might build myself a table stand for the jigsaw(never have been willing to buy table tools, i build stand and attach them. it realy works quite well and gets you great custimization options), but ive never worked with balsa this light. just looking for yalls opinions. im sorry if im annoying with all the questions, im just happy to find something that i can do while im laid up(this is realy miserable, ive had to give up ALL of my hobbys, my college career(till the fall), and most of my mobility because of the wound on my foot)
04-19-2005, 07:54 AM
#13
RE: my first project
ORIGINAL: txaggie08
Would a cub be a decent idea. i was looking at some study plans and they dont look horrible(compared to this helldiver.......i think thats one i want two or three times building before i try...... ) ive also heard they make good second planes(i know i flew a control line one as a trainer once).
>You MAY get away with a Cub for a second plane, but I really would not
>suggest it. Cubs are gentle flyers, however, in order to fly properly, they
>do require you to coordinate the rudder, elevator and ailerons for proper
>turns. I would go with a low wing aerobatic, taildragger for a 2nd plane.
>Something along the lines of a 4 Star, Tiger II or Bingo would make an
>excellent 2nd plane. They land a little faster than a trainer and are more
>of a "point and go" type plane.
just looking for ideas, i thought maybe with it being high wing and (from what ive been told) a pretty gentle plain, it might be a build i could look into. im trying to find a set of plans for an actual trainer, but they seem to be pretty rare. anyone have some(ill buy them, not looking for handouts particularly)or know were i can get them(ive been looking on the web, i guess im just blind)?
>PM Marwen. He has quite a few plans and I am sure he can provide you
>with some plans for a trainer.
ok another question. whats the best way to cut this realy light ply and balsa. ive got a dremel and can pick up the router/cut off wheel attachment for it, or i could get a decent little hand held jigsaw. i can get acces to a table saw, and i might build myself a table stand for the jigsaw(never have been willing to buy table tools, i build stand and attach them. it realy works quite well and gets you great custimization options), but ive never worked with balsa this light.
>Your best bet for cutting balsa and lite ply (if you can only afford ONE power
>tool ) would be a jig/scroll saw. Use a 20tpi blade and you will have no
>problems. The cuts will be smooth and the cutting pretty easy. If you can
>afford 2 power tools, a jig saw and band saw. Ryobi has them for about
>$100 each at Home Depot. I have a Ryobi jig saw that is over 3 years old
>and have had excellent service and no problems with it. The dremel is a
>very handy tool to have. The sanding drums are great and I use the cutoff
>wheel frequently for SMALL, STRAIGHT cuts. The cutoff wheel is not going
>to do what you want because of the curves. The router, again, I don't feel
>is going to do what you want.
>
>When you cut your parts, stay about 1/16" OUTSIDE of the lines and
>then SAND to the line.
just looking for yalls opinions. im sorry if im annoying with all the questions, im just happy to find something that i can do while im laid up(this is realy miserable, ive had to give up ALL of my hobbys, my college career(till the fall), and most of my mobility because of the wound on my foot)
>When using the power tools, get yourself a high stool.
>Sit on the stool and do your cutting. I have a very bad back and
>can only stand for relatively short periods of time. This is how I
>do the cutting and other work. I have a stool infront of the power
>tools and a stool on either side of my work bench (center island
>type work bench for more accessability).
Would a cub be a decent idea. i was looking at some study plans and they dont look horrible(compared to this helldiver.......i think thats one i want two or three times building before i try...... ) ive also heard they make good second planes(i know i flew a control line one as a trainer once).
>You MAY get away with a Cub for a second plane, but I really would not
>suggest it. Cubs are gentle flyers, however, in order to fly properly, they
>do require you to coordinate the rudder, elevator and ailerons for proper
>turns. I would go with a low wing aerobatic, taildragger for a 2nd plane.
>Something along the lines of a 4 Star, Tiger II or Bingo would make an
>excellent 2nd plane. They land a little faster than a trainer and are more
>of a "point and go" type plane.
just looking for ideas, i thought maybe with it being high wing and (from what ive been told) a pretty gentle plain, it might be a build i could look into. im trying to find a set of plans for an actual trainer, but they seem to be pretty rare. anyone have some(ill buy them, not looking for handouts particularly)or know were i can get them(ive been looking on the web, i guess im just blind)?
>PM Marwen. He has quite a few plans and I am sure he can provide you
>with some plans for a trainer.
ok another question. whats the best way to cut this realy light ply and balsa. ive got a dremel and can pick up the router/cut off wheel attachment for it, or i could get a decent little hand held jigsaw. i can get acces to a table saw, and i might build myself a table stand for the jigsaw(never have been willing to buy table tools, i build stand and attach them. it realy works quite well and gets you great custimization options), but ive never worked with balsa this light.
>Your best bet for cutting balsa and lite ply (if you can only afford ONE power
>tool ) would be a jig/scroll saw. Use a 20tpi blade and you will have no
>problems. The cuts will be smooth and the cutting pretty easy. If you can
>afford 2 power tools, a jig saw and band saw. Ryobi has them for about
>$100 each at Home Depot. I have a Ryobi jig saw that is over 3 years old
>and have had excellent service and no problems with it. The dremel is a
>very handy tool to have. The sanding drums are great and I use the cutoff
>wheel frequently for SMALL, STRAIGHT cuts. The cutoff wheel is not going
>to do what you want because of the curves. The router, again, I don't feel
>is going to do what you want.
>
>When you cut your parts, stay about 1/16" OUTSIDE of the lines and
>then SAND to the line.
just looking for yalls opinions. im sorry if im annoying with all the questions, im just happy to find something that i can do while im laid up(this is realy miserable, ive had to give up ALL of my hobbys, my college career(till the fall), and most of my mobility because of the wound on my foot)
>When using the power tools, get yourself a high stool.
>Sit on the stool and do your cutting. I have a very bad back and
>can only stand for relatively short periods of time. This is how I
>do the cutting and other work. I have a stool infront of the power
>tools and a stool on either side of my work bench (center island
>type work bench for more accessability).
04-19-2005, 02:02 PM
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RE: my first project
thanks that pretty well answered my questions.
btw habemus pappam. im not catholic, but im glad they elected a good man to the office.
btw habemus pappam. im not catholic, but im glad they elected a good man to the office.
04-20-2005, 03:05 AM
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RE: my first project
ok i was good and went and found some planes for a trainer. its an aerostart .60. from the plans it looks incedibly simple(the pics ive seen)and there all suposed to be full size so...
