Why is it people make the distinction and are absolutely adamant that "Scratch Built" must include the design of the plans from which the plane is built? The words "Scratch Building" state nothing about design, only building.

I have always considered when I have built from other peoples plans, I am building "Scratch from Plans". When I have designed the plans and built from them, I consider I have "Designed and Scratch Built" or "Scratched from Own Plans". Let's face it, more airplanes get designed, then built! Are all the airplanes I have designed; but, never built, still scratched?

We be splitting hairs, I know! I just get a kick out of how people seem so regimented about this! Maybe it's because of the great proliferation of the ARF! Those whom build, want more recognition for their more difficult endeavors!

This subject has come up before. If you are interested you could do a search to find some of the previous threads. Nonetheless, I personally find it an interesting subject, albeit one which will usually create some heat.
To me, the term "scratch build" has meaning WITHIN the confines of a scale competion where the distinction is made between people who have done there own design/plans and those working from someone else's. At Scale Masters, for example, this is the case I believe.
Outside of such a competion environment, the term is confusing and potentially divisive - especially at the normal field or hobby shop. On the other hand, this is the "scratch building" part of RC Universe....
Allan

Forget the competition "purists". They can't agree on it at all.

Normal model airplane, "Lovers", agree . If the wings, tail parts and fuselage are made from pieces of 1 or several materials by you. It was, scratch built.
Your plan / design or someone elses does not matter a bit.


Or really simplified, NO pre made planes. ARF--ARTF-- ARTC-- etc.


BIG bobo: Pre cut kits of course are NOT part of a SCRATCH built plane.

if Building From Plans is called Scratch Building, then what is it called when you draw the set of plans as well as build from them? Or crayon on a napkin a profile & build without a "Set Of Plans", cut a rib freehand & just make the others by stack sanding, is that Scratch= like Building From Plans?

I fry up some sausage, toss in some flour, then some milk (sometimes the goat didn't give as much as I wanted) and pepper it into Gravy. No Recipe, just eyeball everything. Some people add sausage & water to a packet of graveymix & call it scratch cause they fried the sausage & didn't open a can.

According to the AMA it is called designer build. I have been in modeling since 1955 and all of the modelers with whom I have had contact agree that building from plans using the raw materials is scratch building.

I always considered my plans built planes scratch but do to politics and egos I now say scratch built from plans, keeps the peace.
Every set of plans I have ever gotten needed to have sections redrawn anyway or redisigned for one reason or another. Old designs and new ideas and gear plus I like to do things my way.
Call it what you want. Making model planes was always A hobby when I was A kid, now days the building is the hobby and to fly them is A sport??????? Go figure!

Why the concern over the distinction? Doing anything from scratch has pretty much been understood to be a creation soley by the person doing it.
Building from plans maybe isn't the purist definition but who cares. If the builder derives satisfaction from the projct that is about as good as it gets.

A lttle better than a month ago, this very topic was "beat-to-death".

In my own humble opinion - I think the absolute answer to that is covered in ONE word.

"EGO"

If you stop and think about it, even to the slightest degree, when you build from plans - and I don't care whose they are... every time you glue a piece of balsa, foam twig - whatever - together -- you end up doing it slighely differently.

Example, I made a plane some years ago, I had some problems in a given area. I built the SAME plane with the very same plans, a few years later. I MADE SOME CHANGES THAT WERE NOT ON THE PLANS! By the time I had finished that plane the second time, it still looked the same on the outside nut internally - different. Hopefully, for the better.

I made the changes - "get the idea?"

who cares? Some people want the CREDIT for darn near EVERYTHING

I'm working on a set of plans right now that were originally drawn in the early 40's. Back then, R/C was almost only a dream. I have to make tons of changes to make it work.. As far as I'm concerned, it still looks the same on the outside.

Hah! I sure hope it flies when I'm done though.

marwen

Because I wasn't particularly interested in the topic a month ago, I wasn't interested in this question, then. I have become interested in it now, so I asked the question. If you feel "we're beating a dead horse", then don't pick-up the stick!

After all, it really is true, "There isn't much new under the sun"!

However, If you are a "Scratch Builder" as defined by which ever way you define it, or a "kit builder", I would like to feel I have a stronger kinship with you. To me; 50% of this hobby is building model airplanes, 30% is B.S.ing with my R/C buddies and 20% is the actual flying.

However, If you are a "Scratch Builder" as defined by which ever way you define it, or a "kit builder", I would like to feel I have a stronger kinship with you. To me; 50% of this hobby is building model airplanes, 30% is B.S.ing with my R/C buddies and 20% is the actual flying.

Oh yeah
I've gone to the flyin place some days without a plane. Just a Big Coffe and time to kill chattin with the gang. Seen some guys(me too) bring what was on the workbench last night to chat about the build. Good times don't have to be all about sticktime & sanding. I don't have a problem with Kitters or ARFies, I just have more topics of discussion with the from plans, designers, & Bashers

Epoxy. After I pick up the drinks and Doughnuts I will swing by and get you on the way to the field. [sm=thumbup.gif]

What differance does it make??? sematics don't get the plans or the plane built. build it from somelse's plans or draw your own or upscale a small three veiw. its been belalbored to death-- we all have our own opinion of Webster. get busy and BUILD. dick

Dicknadine, Sorry I forced you to waste your time posting here!

I don't think that is the point. Dick is right - this question has been beat to a bloody pulp! GET OVER IT! Take the next step & Build the darn thing!

marwen

I was never NOT OVER IT! However, what "darn thing was I suppose to build"?

hello everybodyyyyyyyyyyy
Just thought I would put in my two cents into the mix. Now just for a little history I've been building planes since I was 12 and flying around in circles for some sick reason that today I still can't figure out. Anyway I find that with me when I design my own plane there is a certain level of pride that I have in doing the whole process that I just don't find in kit building or plans building. Now don't get all excited, I didn't say that you didn't have any pride in your model of what ever it is. All I'm saying is that with me it's not the same to build someone elses model becouse in the end it still feels like someone else's model. Now I know you may make a change or two or maybe even three but it still does not compare to designing your own model.
Now for you guys sitting on your duffs drinking coffee and eat'in doughnuts, well all I have to say is as I get older I can see the enjoyment in just sitt'in around shoot'in the breeze.
(just don't get mad at us younger folk for flying low and fast [>:] )

It appears my original question was controversial. The controversy might stem from the fact that the topic has been discussed before here, apparently in depth. Controversy was not my intentions! I was hoping for cool heads and calm discussion. However, it seems to me, anything that could possibly be construed as controversial on R/CUniverse will become so! This is simply to bad!

None of this is going to change how I build R/C airplanes or enjoy this hobby; I will scratch from own plans, scratch from other's plans, kit build or ARF my way through the R/C world having much fun! That's what this hobby is all about, in my opinion!

Mode One:

Please, accept my appologies. You simply got caught in the middle. An enormous amount of people that post are not there for the everyday banter.

When I said "Get Over It" , I don't think that it was directed to just you!
A lot of individuals get their opinion posted and no one knows who the heck they even are. They are certainly entitled to post thier views. But it would surely be nice if everyone would read through the thread. ... and this one isn't that long.


I know I was out of line when I uttered those infamous words.

I'll tell you exactly where that came from -- at least with me.

When people say things, regardless where it comes from, we all draw our conversation from past circumstances. and when something is spoken, it might trigger even another thought from way out in left field.

A few years ago, I had a customer come into my store wanting me to make her a poster reading just those very words but in a different font each time. If you read the very same text but with different FONTS, you can say the same thing but achieve different perceptions as to what was meant by it.

Apparently, this customer had a disagreement with her boyfriend. No matter what was said, he kept bringing up the SAME old dead horse.

So think about that phrase - "GET OVER IT" if it is typed in the font IMPACT, it's message is just like the font - heavy & bold, in essence, a very FIRM statement!

Say it again, in a really flowery script font like EDWARDIAN, a much softer message. ... and again, try HELVETICA or GARAMOND. the message might come across as being buisiness like.

Anyway, I think you get the point. So many thoughts scream through your mind in a split second, its almost pathetic.

You hit the nail on the head, this topic has been hashed over & over & over - almost daily and a good amount of posters are so darn adament about THEIR opinon being the only one that counts.

As I said guys "get over it" --- and that is not in any way directed to JUST you my friend.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention.. I definately dids not mean to offend you! This RC community is without a doubt some of the friendliest people I have ever had the pleasure of meeting.


marwen

Dicknadine is right, this subject has been beaten to bloody death over and over and over again. My personal opinion is that if i take flour, eggs, butter, etc and mix them eogether and bake them, I have a SCRATCH cake because I did not use a mix. I don't need to make up my own recipe every time. I can use someone else's recipe and it's STILL scratch.
That's MY opinion and opinions are like a##h&les. Everybody's got one and they ALL stink from time to time.
Let's get our collective heads out of ours and BUILD instead of argue.

papermache

And, so the subject has been "beaten to death", it's not to be discussed any further? Why must I give up my freedom to discuss freely subjects which interest me, because you feel a subject has been "beaten to death"? I guess I would rather be kicked of RCU, then be dictated too, about what subjects I can discuss!

mode,
You can discuss any subject you want. I hope you like debating with yourself, because that's what's going to happen if you keep bringing up the same tired old subjects forever.

papermache

I would respectfully disagree with papermache here. Although this subject has been beaten to death several times (I agree with that statement) it always seems to bring a lively discussion, for a while at least. Most importantly, this forum section is DEDICATED to Scratch Building & Design so it is valid to (occasionally) argue/discuss terminology.
Allan

You know what I find rather humerous is that half of the people replying to this thread are saying how beat to death they are of this subject but yet they still check out the title of this thread and put in there two cents. Now with that said, I myself am relitively new to RCU so I'm enjoying this little discussion so what is the harm in people rehashing old material. I just don't see it.

Many, many times on this and other forums I have partaken in, the first people to chime in on a subject are the ones whom appear do not want the subject continued. Their participation, however, is one of the things that keeps the discussion going! Therefore, they may, or may not, be defeating their own purpose.

I have no interest in keeping a subject going on my own, if there isn't interest!

This whole topic was really only an off-hand observation, only meant to foster discussion.

So Dicknadine:

How's the weather been treating you way down there in the DEEP south?

Any chance that we can help you with some printouts of you drawings?

marwen