JohnVH

My Feedback: (38)

I have never flown off floats, but just put a set on my Heckler 3D funfly type plane and am going to hit the water.

I am trying to figure out the best way to do the water rudder, but also wondering if I really need it, this plane has a large rudder, and tons of throw.

What do you think? A must have?

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Think of it as flying a taildragger without a tailwheel John. It's ok when your blowing air across the back, but when you're just putting along, it can make for some really big circles.

JohnVH

My Feedback: (38)

OK, so it will work then, the tailwheel on my plane is free wheeling so basically doing nothing, I didnt know if it had to be there or not to fly off the water.....

Flyfalcons

In very light winds you'll be okay but if the wind picks up, the plane will weathervane.

seaplane

John, without a water rudder, use your elevator with your throttle to make turns. Experiment with it and I think you'll be happy. I put a set on my "Somethin' Extra" without a rudder and had no problems. Actually I was surprised how well it worked......Seaplane

JohnVH

My Feedback: (38)

I think I will, its alot of extra work on this model, I figure with the large rudder and lots O throw I might be able to horse it around, will have to see about the wind thing though, that might make it interesting.

JimCasey

My Feedback: (1)

on the water a plane handles somewhat like a canoe....not like an RC Car. You can make it go where you want if you know the technique.

Idle speed, hands off, it will weathervane into the wind.

Full up elevator and a little throttle makes the rear of the floats dig in, and the plane weathervanes DOWNWIND. The speed is right when the float noses are waaaay high. Any faster and the floats will start to plane and drop over the bow wave.

With a little less throttle, the nose will drop a little and you can get it to go crosswind. Steer with the throttle. More throttle turns you downwind, less throttle turns you into the wind. Hold the upwind wing down with the ailerons. Use rudder because you won't be able to keep yourself from doing it.

With water rudders, someimes they will dig in and you can't get the plane to turn INTO the wind. Without, you can do almost anything with it.

Carve this into granite: When the motor is running, you can steer without a water rudder. When the motor is not running, it doesn't matter anyway.


So, start up, put it in the water, and hold full up. Add a little power and taxi out crosswind for 10-15 yards, add a little more throttle and it'll turn downwind. Plow off downwind for the length of your normal takeoff run, then chop the throttle to idle. The plane will snap around into the wind in about 2 seconds. Full up elevator, full throttle, relax the elevator as the plane pops up on step, then add a little back pressure to lift off right in front of where you are standing. It rilly, rilly works.

Wayne22

My Feedback: (2)

John, you may be able to get along without it, depending on the keel area of the floats and the aerodynamic center of the side area, direct of the wind etc etc....

If you have problems making it turn, give it full down elevator and full rudder in the direction of the turn, and a blast of power....this will tend to make it pivot around the front end of the floats.......

JohnVH

My Feedback: (38)

sounds good, dont know when Ill be able to try it, I got the cheap geebee floats on it, hope they work, they seem to work fine for my friends.

THanks

Oh, and Ill have video to go with it

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Gee wiz John, that's a little disapointing to see after seeing that new 40% you have LOL (j/k)

Something else to keep in mind is that using your ailerons can help too. It adds drag to the float on the low side.

Wayne22

My Feedback: (2)

Geez...with a wing that thick, you won't be on the water long enough to worry about steering. I see you found some floats pre-puyallup........

L. King

A water rudder will do nothing to help the plane in the air. It will add extra weight behind the CG, which means extra weight to balance the plane. Your floats look small, so it will sit low in the water (water vane). Forget the water rudder, it would not do much good. You should have a retrieval boat anyway.

rsdonomoore

I've flown two trainers off of water, one without a water rudder and one with. My experience proved to me that a water rudder is important. Without it the plane was rather erratic on take off until you got up some speed, it was really hard to control and at slow speeds just taxing forget about it. It will frustrate you when you can't make the plane do what you want on the water, but mine was a trainer with a much smaller rudder than you have on yours. With the rudder taxing is a breeze, you can make it go where you want even if the the wind is blowing, although sometimes it tends to dig in when the wind is up. I always take off into the wind anyway, I tried a crosswind takeoff from water once and it slung the tip of the wing into the water (no damage done) just looked dumb. Those are my comments on the subject, hope it helps.
Have Fun,
Ryan

JimCasey

My Feedback: (1)

If you just want to try to steer around like with an R/C car, then use rudder(S) and you can control the plane most of the time as long as there is essentially no crosswind.

If you are willing to use a little technique, you don't need a water rudder.

The earlier technique mentioned of holding full down and hard-over rudder while blipping the throttle works well if your water rudders are keeping you from turning back upwind. This lifts the water rudders out of the water and lets the plane pivot around the bows of the floats.

spyder0069

I had a 1/2a (actually a little smaller) cub with a .061 and floats. Went out to a pond to try it out. Was trying to be extra cautious with the plane since I only had a few flights with it on wheels previously. Dropped it in the water. Wanted to take a couple of practice runs. Wind was blowing directly at me around 5mph. Plane taxied out....out...tried to turn and the plane just weathervaned straight ahead. Now I had a problem because it was 100 ft out and since it was going straight out I would not be able to take off without seeing the profile of the plane. Didn't want to kill the engine because I had no recovery method except the fishing pole idea and that far out I knew it wouldn't work. So I had one option. Keep the throttle around 1/4 throttle and drive the plane to the other side of the pond. That was a 30 minute walk for me by the way. There I picked it up from the shore and hand launched it instead. Came back the next day with a water rudder with the same wind conditions. Had no problems taxiing around. Got a nice flight and a water loop out of it that day. So my opinion is..... Lightweight plane with smaller rudder surface or low throw rates means put a water rudder on it. For me its a safety. I'd rather have a R/C plane that I can drive like a car/boat. ha ha ha

P.S. the water rudder on those floats were even with the bottom of the float in the rear. Meaning once on step it was out of the water and when putting around it had positive control especially if you held in a little elevator to rock the plane back.

JohnVH

My Feedback: (38)

See my other thread, I have flown it, water rudder is not needed on this plane, flies awesome!!

Thanks!

Indy3d

My Feedback: (25)

Hey all, Been flying for 2 years, looking to add floats, here's my questions: I've got a little .15 sized cub from hobby people, a set of the same floats that were discussed here for the .20 sized plane, OR.. . . . a fourstar .40 size that is extremely comfortably powered with a saito .80 four stoke.

Here's the dilemna. . . do you all believe the .15 supertiger engine would be too underpowered to add the .20 size gee-bee floats? If so, what float company do you guys recommend for the four star, and being a low wing, will I be asking for problems with prop and fusulage clearance?

Thanks so much for you help.

Here's a pic of my most recent project, extra 300xs (74") with 45cc gas.

iflyj3

My Feedback: (7)

Technique is fine until you hit the shore on the other side!

flying_frog

I'm still new to seaplanes. After my water rudder cracked off, I had a heck of a time turning my plane around. Besides the wind, the lake I was flying off of had a slight chop to it. The wind and the waves kept pushing the plane farther away. Thank god I had a boat to retrieve the plane. I won't fly without a water rudder...but that's just me.