Kerberos32

I was given these floats by a club member for an upcoming float fly. at 33" I'm thinking they are too small / short for the LT-40. Is it worth giving them a try and see what happens?

Thanks

Peter

(Sorry if this posts is duplicated - my original post never showed up in the forum.)

JimCasey

My Feedback: (1)

Nope. 33" is about right. Since they are free, try them out. GeeBee floats are generally not reviewed favorably here but some people love them.

Be sure to mount them accurately: Straight parallel to the centerline of the plane and with the top of the float parallel to the bottom of the wing.

jrf

My Feedback: (551)

I second what Jim Casey said. And if the airplane makes sudden high speed turns after you get up on the step, or won't come off the water, don't blame the airplane. They really are terrible floats, but if you have a very light, very high powered airplane that will come off the water in a few feet, they work OK. (So would a couple of empty water bottles.)

Jim

Kerberos32

Thanks for info - to both Jims.

I have an OS .46 FX on the LT-40 now, is there a prop that would be best for float flying given this aircraft / engine / float combo?
I think I have an 11x5 on there now.

JimCasey

My Feedback: (1)

11-5 is probably good. You could try a 12-4, but you don't want the prop tip too close to the water. And by all means use plastic (not WOOD) props. Wood props splinter when they hit spray. I had a Master Airscrew black plastic prop on my Telemaster that lasted for 6 years.

Oh and btw: According to a book I read once that was hardly even colored in, the step location for tapered-step float is considered to be where the step meets the side of the floats, not the point. Put the step under a point 40% of the way back from the leading edge.

Kerberos32

Thanks for the tip on the float step placement. I was studying the installation instructions, and that was exactly the question that was in my head. I'll be giving the installation a shot tonight, with hopes of giving it a test float tomorrow. I wont get a chance to test fly it before the float fly - what can I expect handling wise both in the air and on the water with these floats?

jrf

My Feedback: (551)

In the air, you may need a little up elevator trim to counteract the weight and drag of the floats. Other than that the most noticeable difference will be the weight. The airplane will have a higher takeoff and landing speed, less vertical performance and will require more up elevator to pull out of loops and dives. Some aerobatics will be harder (smooth linear rolls are nearly impossible with a high winger on floats), but some, like inverted flight and knife edge, will be easier. This applies to all floats BTW, not just the Gee Bees.

On the water, Gee Bee floats are unpredictable. You will need to carefully adjust the attitude of the airplane with the elevator so that it runs on the step with the front and rear surfaces out of the water, otherwise it may not be able to build up the speed necessary to take off. Then, as I said above, they will frequently make uncommanded sharp turns to the right or left just before lift-off. You will see many other floats at the float fly, and all of them will be more consistent and easier to handle on the water.

Jim

JimCasey

My Feedback: (1)

rolling this back to a little more basic level, since you have never flown from floats. The following information applies to all waterborne aircraft.

Surface handling is different from wheeled planes in 2 basic ways:
(1) Whenever the engine is running, the plane will be moving.
(2) Whenever the engine is NOT running, the plane will be moving.

Memorizing, believing, and accepting these facts will enable you to plan instinctively your strategies with regards to taxiing and other surface activities.

Ask yourself, "If the engine quit RIGHT NOW, where would the airplane drift?" It will drift mostly downwind, Backwards. The powerless plane will always sit level and weathervane into the wind. Even if it is "other than completely assembled" the subcomponents will all drift in pretty much the same direction: Downwind.

Spot your landings so you approach from downwind-ish and safely clear all obstacles, then make a course correction as low and close to the pilot station as possible to land directly into the wind. If you kill the engine with a rough landing, which way is it going to drift? Is this smarter than landing waaay out in the lake >somewhere<and having to taxi back crosswind? Dern Tootin, because airplanes are hard to taxi crosswind. A lot of em are even hard to taxi downwind, 'cause the air rudder wants to make the plane weathervane INTO the wind. When you are taxiing crosswind, Even if you have a lot of steering authority (you don't) the upwind wing wants to lift, that pushes the downwind wingtip into the water. If this happens, you're probably going for a boat ride. Usually if a wingtip goes in, the plane pivots around it, then the wind gets under the tail and the plane winds up floating on its back. So if you ARE taxiing crosswind, Hold the UPWIND wing down with the ailerons, Hold full up elevator to keep the water rudder and the tails of the floats in the water, and give it enough power to keep the prop 'WAY up out of the water (FAA calls this a PLOW taxi). If it turns downwind more than you can control with the rudder, back off the throttle a click or 2.

Alternately: There is the "step taxi" where you use enough power to get up on the step but not enough to get flying speed, and drive the plane around like a speedboat. Use the ailerons, but gently. Chop the throttle before you get to the shore. Especially if the shore would cause damage to the floats (rocks, driftwood)

Similarly and less wordily: taxi out upwind from the pilot station and take off into the wind. If you blow the takeoff the plane drifts back in a coupla' minutes.

If somebody asks "Which way is the wind coming from?" give him a dope slap and tell him to find a different hobby, like rollerblading in traffic.

Landing: Full stall landings work just fine. The weight of the floats will cause the plane to land at a slightly faster airspeed than before, but unless you have an airspeed indicator you probably won't be able to tell. Just fly the plane. Watch the plane's altitude and attitude. it will stall at the same angle of attack as it did with wheels. Lakes tend to be bigger landing surfaces than solid runways, but don't land too far out because the farther you are the harder it is to judge what you are doing. Watch the reflection of the airplane in the surface and try to fly level at 3 inches high, then the plane will settle in when it runs out of airspeed. A good water landing is one of the prettiest things you'll ever see, and your wheeled landings will amazingly improve, too. I enjoy seeing how far I can drag the water rudder before touching down, and trying to touch down without a skip in the wake. Take your best flying buddy and play "Pass the transmitter". Shoot a landing, and pass the transmitter to let him try to do better. Coach each other. You'll get better really quickly.

Kerberos32

Jim thanks again for all the very useful information, I've printed it out to refer to on at the lake. I'm going to get one of our clubs instructors who does alot of float flying to help me out on my first float flight - I'm sure he'll have one or two more helpful tips as well.

I got the floats installed last night - when the plane just sits on the ground it balances on the step with neither the front or the rear of the float touching. I'm guessing this pretty much where it should be balancing?

How concered should be be with waterproofing? Obviosuly if it goes turtle it wont matter, but how much should I protect from spray? I'm going to put foam tape on the wing saddle, and plug the holes in the bottom of the fuselage where the wheel gear attaches. Should I do anything around the engine mount area? What about the big gaping hole at the end of the fuselage where the elevator linkage comes out? In case of a dunking I'm also going to wrap the receiver in a baggie, and use silicone to seal where the servo and battery leads come out.

I know what you mean about a perfect water landing - here in Vancouver we have a very busy seaplane base (complete with a great pub right on the water). I love watching the Beavers and Twin Otters coming and going. I've been able to see how difficult they can be the handle in a crosswind. I'm looking to the LT-40 getting its feet wet - it sure looks good on floats!

Peter

JimCasey

My Feedback: (1)

Althoush some will claim that some parameters of float installation are critical, I have not found it to be so. If tour plane balances on the little point at the step of the GB floats, it would technically mean that the floats are mounted too far forward by a couple of inches. Will it still fly? maybe. It IS likely to be less stable both in the air and on the water
How concered should be be with waterproofing? Obviosuly if it goes turtle it wont matter, but how much should I protect from spray? I'm going to put foam tape on the wing saddle, and plug the holes in the bottom of the fuselage where the wheel gear attaches. Should I do anything around the engine mount area? What about the big gaping hole at the end of the fuselage where the elevator linkage comes out? In case of a dunking I'm also going to wrap the receiver in a baggie, and use silicone to seal where the servo and battery leads come out.


I know what you mean about a perfect water landing - here in Vancouver we have a very busy seaplane base (complete with a great pub right on the water). I love watching the Beavers and Twin Otters coming and going. I've been able to see how difficult they can be the handle in a crosswind. I'm looking to the LT-40 getting its feet wet - it sure looks good on floats!

Peter
Flying boats have water problems. Floatplanes get away with murder. I have put a SPAD on floats and it had a blow-through downspout fuselage. Receiver and bettery should be in a baggie secured with a rubber band or cable tie. Careful with RTV:The acetic acid in it can be corrosive to your circuit boards. Switch should be mounted internally and activated with a pushrod. mount the electronics off the floor of the cabin and not against the ceiling either, so if any water gets in it will dribble right on by. Don't worry about the hole in the tail. If the plane flips over it will float on the wing with the motor in the water. Seal the inside of the fuselage at least in the cabin, nose, and motor bay, with clear water-based polyurethane varnish. If you are flying from salty water, just throw all the electronics away every week. or At least invest in some Corrosion-X and zap all your connectors, circuit boards, metal fittings, engine. You don't have to flood the servos with it.