Minnreefer

I don't want to side track this thread, but I was looking at this site, www.webraus.com and I know that Bob was talking about Webra's, a webra 50 might be a good engine on that. I was thinking about putting a webra 50 on my northstar, that needs work.

Jon

2-Stroke Freak

If thats the route you want to go, you can get specs and pricing on Webra's [link=http://www.swanyshouse.com/engines/engines.aspx]here[/link]. If I were to go webra I'd go with the Speed 55. I've seen enough of peeled liners and broken con rods on the smaller Webras to stay away from them personaly.

55 AX is hard to beat IMO, if your shopping for a new engine.

jeffo

My Feedback: (68)

I'm sitting here having a beer reading Mikey's post and laughing my but off.Don't get me wrong,you cats are cool,but Mike was a kid in a candy store with my now his Arrow.
Mike did an excellent job setting it up.He had put 2 oz. lead in nose,I thought it would be a little nose heavy,but I new since he was new to the Arrow it would not hurt him.I told Mike there are two things to watch for when flying an Arrow,#1 stay on the elev.on take off until you build up speed#2 never firewall the throttle going slow over the deck.
Keeping that in mind,it should last you a few seasons.Mike did great,Put up 3 uneventful flights,he took his time getting used to how fast and nimble the Arrow is.He landed it on third flight and nailed it.Came in a little nose high and settled the bird down with out a scratch.
I love getting people hooked on Arrow/Northstars
P.S.-I have a custom built Arrowstar (best of both worlds) in the stable ready for maiden,waiting for perfect day
-Jeffo

Mustang Fever

My Feedback: (2)

Hey, Jeffo

Yeah, that was cool about Mikey. I enjoy seeing guys have positive experiences with designs that are new to them. One of the best parts of the hobby.

Can you put up some pics of your Arrowstar?

2-Stroke Freak

I cant wait to see the Arrow-Star, if all goes well with that design, with Jeffs guidance I can make some balsa dust of my own!!! I REALLY want to build one of these too.

2-Stroke Freak

Yesterday Jeff and I got together and put up a few flights on the Arrow. I'll have to put the bird on the CG rig to get an accurate location, but we took removed half of the nose weight I added, 1 Oz. Now she flys perfectly. No more dropping the nose in the apex of a turn, less reflex trim, and less effort to pull the nose over in a loop. I didn't think an ounce could matk that much difference but it does.

Mustang Fever

My Feedback: (2)

OK, guys, this thread is going active again.

I just finished a Shrike 40 from plans furnished by another crazy person, and it has reminded me how much I like compact, high performance models.

I never seem to get the models I like best done correctly on the first try. This is my fifth Shrike, and the only one that ever really flew well, as I paid a lot of attention to weight distribution so no lead was required to get the CG. I'm also now on my third Sig Wonder, and it's a keeper because of the same reason- being careful with weight distribution.

This will be my Fourth - 4th, count em- Arrow by Laddie Mikulasko, and it will start as soon as I clean up my shop a little and get the order into BUSA for the materials. I'm going to do a few things differently this time:

1. I really like the removable wing feature, but those square ply wing tube boxes are not my favorite. I'm going to build the wing panels onto the CF tubes while the tubes are in the hull, with the hull hanging off the end of the bench. Sound familiar, Shrike fans? Before I do that, tho, I'm going to pour the wing tube sockets onto the two formers, using an epoxy/milled glass mix. A piece of CF tube will be in place through the fuse, thoroughly lubed to prevent it sticking, and three sides of the wing box will also be in place. I'll do this with the hull sitting bow up, so I can pour the mix from above each bulkhead. This should yield really strong wing boxes that will be waterproof and very tight. I'm planning on drilling a hole in the center of each one to allow air to escape when the second panel is installed.

2. I'm going to use a very long, plastic engine mount so I can move the OS 46AX forward about two inches from the location on the plans. This should help a lot with getting the CG. I will trade a little of that help for a mini throttle servo (HiTec HS 225) in the engine pod, tho, as that cable from the front is more trouble than it's worth.

3. I'll do the ailevons and rudder as built up, open structures. (My sheet ailerons warped on my last Arrow, one of the reasons I scrapped it.)

4. The hatch will be shifted one bulkhead forward, to cover F2-F4, so that the servo bay can be also go forward one bulkhead. I'll put a big hole in F2 so that if necessary, it will be easy to locate the battery in the bow.

5. I'm going to use Futaba S3305 MG hi torques for the ailevons and rudder.

Servo481

I built this Arrow from plans about 4 years ago. After a few flights, I put the canards on. The canards have a gyro to help keep the nose up when power is applied at low speed.
With the canards it’s possible to abort a landing from a very slow speed. The only draw back to the canards is they are very vulnerable. I also tapered the engine cell to make it more streamline.

Ray

Mustang Fever

My Feedback: (2)

Ray- that is really slick looking.

What are you using for power? (And the prop?)

jrf

My Feedback: (551)

Great job Ray! I've seen several people try adding canards, but without success. Where did you put the pivot for the canards (As a percentage of the chord)? And how high are they on the fuselage in relation to the wing?

Thanks,
Jim

Strykaas

Very cool Ray !! I'm also interested in getting information on this canard setup... Thanks !

Servo481

The canards are mounted about 5/16� below the center line of the wing, because I did not want to redo the canopy. The canards are 7� long and about 4� wide and are shaped like the wing.

The engine is an OS .46 FX with an Ultrathrust Muffler. I use 30% heli fuel and a 11-7 G3 Master Airscrew propeller.

Ray

Strykaas

Interesting stuff [:-]. What size is your tank at the back ? Seems like there's not much space left in there

Did the ultrathrust muffler add anything both in the power and weight departments ?

Strykaas

Ray, forgot to ask, did you build yours as per plans (except the canards) ? Many builders here have found the advocated angles (e.g. down-thrust), center of gravity location, etc... could be greatly improved. What is your opinion on that matter ? Thank you for taking the time to answer and to share your experience here [sm=thumbup.gif]

Servo481

I built mine to the plans except for the engine pod change and I used ½ “aluminum tube and sockets in the wings instead of arrows. Also the fuel tank is 10oz.

The Arrow when built to the plans is hard to fly and is very unforgiving. The high thrust line and the lack of prop blast on the elevator makes the Arrow dive when power is applied at low speed. If you bounce on take off or landing its all over the plane will stick the nose right into the water. My friends call my Arrow the Lawn Dart because I have had my share of problems.

Changing the thrust line may help. I did not try to change the thrust line because of how my engine pod is made. The cg on my Arrow with the canards is right on the step about 1�foward of what the plans call for.

Ray

Mustang Fever

My Feedback: (2)

Ray:

You're right about the face planting. I bounced on my first landing attempt, and instinct made me go to WOT. Sploosh! I've also learned that smooth water is kind of a must,- as you say, a bounce on takeoff before the speed is up and under she goes.

I did eventually get used to the throttle/pitch coupling, and towards the end of that model's service life it didn't really bother me. Let's face it, all the high performance RC airplanes have one quirk or another. I'm on my fifth Shrike. It took destroying four of them before I learned how to properly build and fly them.

The CG error on the Arrow plans is the unknown killer that most people have had to deal with. It is WAY off. Like you say, about even with the step is where it belongs. I started with mine at 16 inches forward of the elevon hinge line, and eventually settled on 15-3/4" so as to get a bit more pitch control at lower speeds. I figured out that at 16", the CG is at 0% of MAC.

Without the canards, it is kind of like some of the older jet fighters- when you're committed to landing, land. It's not possible to go around below a certain speed, sorta like the old F-86s.

Sure does look great in the air, tho, on a low pass at about 80 mph.

Strykaas

Thank you both for your testimonies [sm=thumbup.gif].

Bob I'm pretty sure you're in for the canards, aren't you ?

Mustang Fever

My Feedback: (2)

Nope. Gonna keep it simple and as light as possible.

Mustang Fever

My Feedback: (2)

I guess I should rename this- fourth attempt, or Arrow IV, or something. Anyway, after spending a month collecting all my left-over-from-crashes-hardware and organizing into those neat boxes that servos are born from, I'm starting NOW

The only items I don't have on hand are the engine, radio, muffler and covering. I decided to go with a OS 46AX as the performance is not that far off the BSE 40 RC engine from Jett. Less than 2000 rpm with a 10x6, and that's on 15% in the Jett at sea level vs 10% with my OS at 1200 feet above. The main thing, tho, is the weight difference- not enough to justify the extra cost. With a Macs muffler, the 46 will come out maybe a couple oz more than the Jett. I did reverse my decision to use a mini servo in the pod for the throttle, and am using another S3305 up front with a Sullivan push cable, so as to keep extraneous weight out of the tail.

Anyhow, starting on the ribs first, as the wife is off to lunch with a pal and she has the car, so I can't take the hull sheet down to the blueprint shop for copying. Going to set them all up on centerline alignment tabs so I can get a uniform taper to the wing, top to bottom, like the second one I built. Going to be very careful with the CF tube locations relative to distance from the TE and in relation to the required locations on the sides of the hull.

I'm thinking seriously about extending the aft carbon fiber tube all the way to the tip. Even before I pranged up Arrow #2, I was not impressed with the wing structure- seemed kinda flexible and floppy, and I had troubles from day one getting the covering to stay tight, as if the shape were constantly changing. Comments welcome, on this or anything that comes to mind.

Mustang Fever

My Feedback: (2)

Voila.

I've extended the aft CF spar out to where it will butt against the next to last rib. I've been really careful when locating the 3/8" holes in all the ribs, and that has paid off. Everything lined up nice and straight over the plans with the two spars in place. The tabs are done such that all the ribs are spaced 1.25" from the centerline to the board.

I think building and flying radically different types of aircraft is the main attraction of Radio Control for me. My previous Arrow taught me more about flaring for landing than any other plane I've had. I'm not afraid to experiment with getting the nose way up at touchdown like I used to be.

Here's a list of what I'm flying now- all have contributed in one way or another to advancing my admittedly limited skills:

Hangar 9 Sopwith Camel ARF (Magnum 91 2S); Shrike 40 (OS 46AX); Great Planes Big Stik 60 ARF (OS 91FX); Midwest Aerostar 40 (Royal 45); Lanier Mariner 40 ARF (OS 46AX); Sig Wonder (OS 15 CVA); Great Planes Spad XIII ARF (Rimfire 28-30-950); Exceed RC BlueRay 450 PE heli (400 alpha outrunner); Top Flite 88" B-25 ARF (OS 55AX's)

Mustang Fever

My Feedback: (2)

This will be all for awhile- were heading south for a couple weeks.

One wing panel completed, the other will be finished soon. If you look at the inboard edge of the completed right panel, you can see where I flush mounted a 1/2" wide strip of 1/8 basswood between the #1 and #2 ribs, kind of landing gear block style. This is for the "L" bracket that holds the panel on. The plans show a block of hardwood mounted inside, under the sheeting. Doesn't work so good, as the balsa obviously crushes when the screw is tightened.

The 46AX and the Macs muffler arrived today. The Macs muffler is half the weight of the OS "Ugly Box".

The last shot is what I'll be flying at "Warbirds Over Paradise" on 9 & 10 January.

Happy New Year, y'all.

Strykaas

Happy new year

Mustang Fever

My Feedback: (2)

The weather in Florida went to crap, so we came home early, but not before we had toured "Patriots' Point" near Charleston, SC and the 8th Air Force museum near Savannah, GA. Great displays of U.S.S. Yorktown and the history of the Mighty 8th. Patriots' Point also included a display of a Balao class WWII fleet boat. I didn't realize until touring her that Fairbanks-Morse was not the sole manufacturer of diesel/electric powerplants for our subs. This one had four 16V-279 GM diesels. 1600 HP apiece at a screaming 750 RPM. Not bad for 8.75" diameter pistons with a 10.5" stroke. (That's 279 cubic inches per cylinder, and they were two strokes.)

The previous full size Arrow hull was a pain to build in two areas: location of the wing tube "boxes" and cutting away the servo hatch after it was completely constructed. Neither of those items turned out very precise for me.

I very carefully measured the distance between the forward and aft CF wing tubes on both my panels, and sure enough, the distance shown on the drawing of the hull sides is a touch longer. So I moved the forward wing tube "box" aft a touch. Also, square holes don't work well for me, so I used the trusty 3/8 Forstner bit to cut holes in the hull sides at the required locations. The wing tubes fit the holes very nicely, so this seems to have worked well.

I cut the "canopy" hatch outline away from the main sides so I can build it sort of separate from the rest of the hull. All the bulkhead drawings are pasted onto 1/8 balsa so I can start cutting them tomorrow.

Mustang Fever

My Feedback: (2)

This represents a completely new way of doing the wing tube boxes, so it may turn out to be a complete disaster. In any event, it is now well documented. Kinda like the Detroit bomber.

Made some 1/16 ply hole reinforcers to go on the inside of the hull where the 3/8 holes are drilled. Greased up a 5" piece of the CF tube and stuck it though the holes on both sides. Made a couple 1/8 ply "fences" to go below and above the tube, and poured in a mix of epoxy and milled glass. (About 50-50) Cross your fingers.

Mustang Fever

My Feedback: (2)

Pouring the wing boxes out of epoxy worked out well. The only thing I had to do was ream through the epoxy with a 25/64" drill (next size up from 3/8") so the wing panels wouldn't be so hard to get on and off.

I should have made the front box a little deeper, as the drill broke through on one side. NBD.

I'm working on the L bracket wing retainers, now. I'm going to drill 3/8 holes on each side of the fuse where the L bracket goes, and run a piece of hardwood dowel all the way across, so the hardwood will be flush with the balsa to avoid crunching.