LADDIE

Sorry. Duplicate posting

Mustang Fever

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I'm with Laddie on the hand launch. Having personally witnessed the effect of full power at low speeds. "Face plant" is the only term that adequately describes the results.

I've got mine all repaired and ready for the lake today. "Winds light & variable" is the prediction, and we don't get too many days like that.

It flew OK with the wheels, but it flies so much better clean that I don't know if I'll put them back on again or not.

Good luck, Ed.

Take your time finding the rudder trim with high speed taxi tests. I ended up with about 3/16" right. I thought it was because I maybe didn't get everything perfectly straight, but after looking at it a hundred times I'm not so sure. I'm thinking P factor is causing a left turn because the prop is so close to the fin.

Once you're satisfied with the rudder, head into the wind, and go to about 3/4 throttle with about half back stick, and steer with the ailerons. The moment you have both wingtips clear of the water, it will jump on plane and accelerate very quickly. So quickly it will surprise you. Then it'll be gone like a rocket.

Strykaas

Bob, this current thread is an excellent tutorial for an Arrow project, thanks for adding so much useful information.

Mustang Fever

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Thanks, bro.

Amazing what one can do if one doesn't mind sacrificing a bit of balsa, heh?

Just absolutely perfect seaplane conditions, today. I was at the lake for an hour and a half, flying both the Mariner and the Arrow. I only left because I had some competition from a J-3 on floats. An IP from Lake City does float plane transition work now and then.

I'm still working on high alpha operation. My best splashdowns so far have been from a low (50'), slow (half throttle or less) circle, downwind to final, cut the power when turning final, get the nose up moderately, maybe 15-20 degrees, come back on the power to just a bit above idle, and maintain until touchdown. No bounce. Pretty. Always seems like if I try to get the nose any higher, I run out of airspeed near splashdown and she sorta plops.

Ed_Moorman

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I wasan't really thinking of hand launching the Arrow. Water only.

Here's one of my deltas I launch, but I use a PVC launcher from a table with the back legs folded up.

Mustang Fever

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Ed:

Is that a diamond dust?

I still have a pedal launcher that I made out of oak plywood, it has a nice long track- maybe six feet. I was thinking about using that, but I'm not confident enough about my landings to try touching down bare hulled on the grass. I think I'm going to keep the LG off for awhile until I get it figured out down at the lake.

Mustang Fever

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I think I'm getting close to the maintaining the proper approach angle to touchdown: nose high but not too high that it bleeds off airspeed and I lose elevator effectiveness. So.......

Try number two at the problematical nosegear. The square aluminum tube mount instead of maple combined with the servo velcroed to hull saved enough weight that I could remove two bullets from the bullet box in the pod.

There's a wheel collar on both sides of the box- one you can see above the coil spring, the other is inside the hull. I drilled a 3/8' hole in the plywood hatch to accommodate it, as I believe having a collar on both sides makes the whole lashup less flexible and failure prone.

Ed_Moorman

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Bob,

My delta is a Mach Racer from Hobby People. The one in that picture has a Magnum .52XLS with a Rossi short pipe. My second one has an OS .50SX with a Jett muffler, although I did test fly on the stock muffler. The Mach racer comes with a tri gear, but I initially flew them from the launcher. My present one has the gear installed after flying without it and also rudders for snaps & spins.

I owned a Diamond Dust with a Rossi 40 & pipe several years back. I presently have a twin engine, single fin & rudder version with 2 OS .25FXs.

Mustang Fever

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Lovely birds, Ed. This delta wing thing must be contagious, [:-]

A further note on takeoff: If the wind is from one direction, and a significant chop from another, ignore the wind and takeoff directly into the chop. I tried two TOs running across it this morning and spun out both times to the right. Even before rotation the chop would lift up the left wingtip and bury the right. The chop today was from the SW, and the wind NW. Took off into the chop(SW) and away we went no problem.

Bob93447

Ed,

Can you post a few more pictures detailing the launcher you are using for your MACH RACER? Any top speed numbers? I have a Mach RACER that will soon be getting an OS .46VF.

Bob

Mustang Fever

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One more flight note, I think: Remember all that right rudder trim I had in? I took it all out this AM after watching it flyover, hands off, crabbed to the right. Then, of course, it wanted to bank to the left because I had in left aileron trim to compensate for the rudder. Took that out, and she flies straight, and has no tendency to drop either wing in a glide anymore. Sometimes, I can really get wrapped around the axle [:'(]

Strykaas: you mentioned scaling the Arrow up, and I'm starting to think seriously about that. I don't know a lot about it, but is matching engine size to wing area the way to go? If it is, this would be the numbers:

150% Arrow
OAL: 78"
WS: 66.75"
Root Chord: 46.3" (@ fuse C/L)
Tip Chord: 8.44"
MAC: 27.37"
Wing Area: 1826 square inches (2.2 times the original)
.55 x 2.2 = 1.21 engine size?

I have an OS 1.20 AX that I'm going to put in the Mustang, but I could easily get sidetracked and use it in a project like this, instead. I'm going to contact RCMM plans and see if they will scale the plans up 150%. This one would be plenty big enough for some nice retracts and gear doors.

Strykaas

I think the way to go is to consider expected weight. Using a 1.20 on such a bird does not sound that crazy.
It sure would be a very cool project.[sm=49_49.gif] And it would be easier to fly.

Ed_Moorman

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The launcher is made from PVC. The top 2 extensions keep the plane from flipping over in a wind.

Ed_Moorman

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As for our Arrow, which we plan to test Saturday, I woke up abruptly this morning thinking about it. I called Flaps and told him we needed to re-check the CG. We had balanced it with an empty tank. If the tank's in the rear, you balance with a full tank. Good thing I caught it or we would have been tail heavy on take off.

Mustang Fever

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Ed- if you use 16" forward of the TE (not counting elevons) you'll need to balance with the tank empty. That's how I did mine, and it's perfect.

Ed_Moorman

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Now you tell me! I just put 8 ounces in the nose. I'll go take it our and re-balance.

We also have a sticking pushrod on the right elevon. Both sides are the same and both have digital servos so we may have some binding down inside. I'd rather not test until everything is smooth. I was looking forward to flying it, but better safe than sorry.

I do have a new Neptune and a Stinger 40 on floats to test fly, plus a TwinStar on floats with new engines, so the trip up to the lake in Alabama won't be wasted.

Mustang Fever

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Geez, Ed, I think you need some more toys.

Ed_Moorman

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Tell me about it. We have been trying to unload some. Mostly we give them away or nearly so. We got up to a total of 42 planes between us, so some had to go.

Ed_Moorman

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Ratz! No test for the Arrow. The elevon controls on the right side are binding, sticking and starting. I told Flaps I didn't want to test until everything was smooth. They are standard plastic pushrods tubes that Flaps installed and one side is like silk, but the other sticks. We have removed it, sanded, greased and it still isn't free.

I did get to test fly the Neptune and fly the TwinStar with new engines. Both excellent.

Minnreefer

Are you looking for a son to adopt I will try to remeber to wish you a happy birthday and visit you on occasion

Jon

jeffo

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Mustang-
Do not go lite on power. If you do decide to build a 150% Arrow,put at least 1.60 O.S.Max.I have built 150% Northstar and I have a O.S.1.60 engine,and power is marginal.I was told to put a Moki 2.10,but thought it was to much tail weight,now I wonder if I should of.(not enough prop clearance.)I know of 3 Northstars-1 at 32 pounds,1 at 26 pounds,and mine at 19.5 pounds.I had to add 2 pounds in nose.My Northstar is the most stable plane I ever flew.
I've built the Arrow and flown it.Flys great.The problem I have is the bay I fly off of usually has a 6" chop with rolling swells.I am considering building a 130% Arrow with a 1.60 engine with some kind of a tip float.Jeffo

Mustang Fever

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Jeffo-

That is good info, as the Arrow's wing is actually a bit larger than the Northstar's (800 vs 750 sq. inches). Sounds like a 2.0+ engine is the way to go, but as you say, prop clearance becomes an issue. I think I may just table this idea for awhile. Anyway, I got in contact with RCMMagazine and they do not offer plans enlargement/reduction anymore, so I'd have to blow the parts up on a copier and do multiplication to get the former and rib spacing. It's doable, but the more I examine the idea the more it looks like maybe not so good.

jeffo

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Mustang
Just find a Staples/Kinkos/Office Max type store.They can enlarge to any percentage.That's where I took my plans.When I took them to my flying field,the guys started laughing,and said it would be difficult to build.Look at the first thread on the Arrow,my pic is in the twenties I think.=Jeffo

jeffo

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Mustang-Page 18

Mustang Fever

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Thanks, jeffo. That's really cool. I probably looked at it a couple years ago but forgot about it.

When you say it's underpowered, I'm curious as to exactly what you mean. Too slow? Not enuff vertical?

Did you thin the airfoil any when you scaled it up, or did it end up 150% as thick as the original?