DRC1

My Feedback: (10)

I did read the post...Did you? Read the last part of his post...

"The only other factors are overhead power lines (which are mostly out of the way) and lots of trees, although a reasonable sized clear area is adjacent to the pond."

I aged 12+ years and now you know everything about me..Interesting...I've flown since 1985. I've seen fingers get severed and had a club member opened up by a plane that got out of control, albeit at a field with other people following safety codes. Had a doctor not been on the scene (club member), the person wouldn't have to worry about anything, just the family about the cost to bury him. This is grim, yes...and a worst case scenario.

Have you ever watched someone get hit by a R/C plane? Do you have any idea what damage can be caused? I'm going to assume that shooting BB guns is harmless and Pellet Guns only hurt if they hit at close range.

Here is a scenario...Ever watch a plane get out of sight because someone didn't know which way it was going? If you fly long enough you will see it. Where does it go, safely to the ground or into a neighbors child playing in their safe yard three miles away?

So now you know a little about me, I suppose you under 20 and probably still in high school. Or your just a prankster that really don't care for anything other than the moment.

I didn't make this personal, so you might want to quit with me...

Larry Diamond
AMA 5024 (not that this means anything to you)

barndawg77

...and YOU obviously didn't read his post, either! He says that there are powerlines near the flying area (or crashing area I guess I should say...LOL!!), he could clip one and cause damage...probably not, but it is possible. He could also hit himself and the family / friends that you KNOW will be there watching...and that is a real possibility as I've seen it happen. It isnt funny or cool, or fun in the least, and it further damages the reputation of this fun, relaxing hobby! I'm not an old man, before you assume anything my friend, I'm 32 Oh yeah, I tend to listen to old farts with TONS more experience than I have... I don't always implement their advice, but I do listen...LOL!

DRC1

My Feedback: (10)

Just so you don't go ranting...

You are about late 20's or early 30's and have an 11yo kid...Just stop acting like you're a teenager with no care in the world...

So far you fly electrics and a glider and claim to have 6 years of experience. I highly doubt you are an AMA member and probably fly at a local park or school...

Have a nice day...

hairy46

My Feedback: (1)

Hey I like sixty some year old people! hope to get there some day myself! That way I will also have good sound advice with years of experience to offer like Mr. Diamond!

No I am not there yet and still do not like the odds of going it alone, I do see allot of 10 second or less flights in his future!

Desertlakesflying

My Feedback: (28)

No wonder it's only 60% instead of 100% against the health care bill.....

Don't worry, I'm sure in the bill somewhere there is a provision that will do away with RC once someone goes to the doctor with a deep cut finger.

Why not pages 87 and 88 do away with guns.

Zipperneck

My Feedback: (1)

This has got to be a spoof question.

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

We had a full size pilot come to the field, one day. Looks easy, he says. Jack says here, take the sticks. Sure, smirk on the guys face. Sure, ten seconds later and Jack's plane is headed for the swamp. Jack grabs the TX out of the guys hands just as his plane goes behind the trees. Full up, he pulls,,, SILENCE,,, for a split second, and then MMMMMMMRRAAAAWWWW, the plane roars up from behind some trees. Jack lands, shaking. Grass stains on the wheels.

What happened? Well, the guy says, "when I wanted to climb, I pushed up on the stick,, like you said". No, Jack said quietly, I said PULL up. Like in a real plane, right?

Jack, myself and another guy, Marcel, we all had no choice but to learn to fly alone. We had been flying free-flight at an old, mine tailings,, sort of like a salt flats. Ideal, really, no grass to cut and the runway was moved around according to wind direction. That spoiled us but what REALLY spoiled us was the fact that we had unlimited space all around. The cars were parked behind some trees some 300 yards away and we flew around us, no runway rule. No MAAC and no club yet and that's why we had to learn on our own. So as spoiled as we were, we still had problems.

I spent two summers crashing with the wrong kind of plane. The first was a Carl Goldberg Skylark, low winger, on SINGLE CHANNEL. It was a pulse proportional radio with an escapement drive to move the throttle. In sequence, one blip of the throttle button and you advance from low to medium throttle. Another blip gives you full throttle. Another blip takes you back down to medium, blip one more and you're back to idle. Boy, those were the good old days. [:@]

So next was a SkySquire. It was bigger and HEAVY, driven by a .40. So, it was SO heavy, it had to fly at near full bore and fast, just to stay in the air. THIS time I had full control but I just couldn't keep up with the plane. Crashed it some half dozen times that spring till the RCM issue came out featuring their RCM Trainer. Well, plans building was no mystery to me, so a week later, I had the plans and also some new fangled, plastic covering that you IRON on ????? Nah, can't be. Yep, can, and it sure made that construction project go fast. At the time, I didn't have any medium to hard wood that the experts always recommended (at the time) for RC. Don't waste the good stuff, save it for free-flight they said. Well, the experts be damned, I used contest grade wood and the new covering. At the same time, 250 mAh battery packs were just coming into use, so I saved some weight there, too. Finally, I was given an Enya .29 for this plane and it was lighter than the OS Max .40 in the SkySquire so we had a cascading decrease in wing loading.

First time out, I did a fast taxi run. Just to lift the nose, I tweaked the elevator. Whuuupps, off she comes at a 45 degree angle,,, stall city. But no, I chopped the throttle and the plane just parachuted down, onto the gear, hard. Broke the prop and I was done for the day. Next day I went out and put in four or five flights and I haven't looked back since.

There are several elements to learning to fly on your own.

One big one is knowing HOW an airplane flys and why it does this or that when you do that or this.
Next, is a GOOD trainer.
Next, you need to know some crucial techniques when learning to fly.
Finally, you need a dead nuts, reliable engine.

The first item is covered, in this case.

A good trainer is one with the lightest wing loading possible. A heavy airplane will need POWER to keep it flying. That comes from the engine and that means higher airspeeds. Those high airspeeds is what kills newbie pilots. Even with a light plane, once you've gained some decent ALTITUDE, throttle back,,, just like a big one. Throttle back and adjust elevator trim till the plane is essentially, putting around in the sky, just barely climbing a bit. Oh, that speed I warned about? That's where the newbie gets so mesmerized by seeing his plane in the air that he mentally freezes. UNTIL he wakes up when that awful, horrible, terrifying realization comes that he can't see which way it's going. That's when the panic comes in with all kinds of erratic stick inputs, and all the while, the engine is screaming (no mufflers in those days) like a banshee. (Google it, I don't know what a Banshee is). So not only does our fledgling crash, he does it with the utmost inertia and gusto. Sorry kid, it's a write off.

OK, so now you have the plane settled in and slowed down to a nice cruising speed. Now what? You'll find that RC isn't like full size in one very important aspect. With RC, you're ALWAYS turning back to the airport. Always.

Arright, you need to turn. Do NOT push the stick over and hold it there. Do not grasshopper, you will pay. Do this instead. BUMP the stick in the desired direction with the edge of your thumb. A good trainer will not only be light but be lightly responsive. Small, light inputs should give you an immediate response. AND a good trainer will be stable. Look at it this way. A trainer should be, basically, a free-flight that's interrupted from time to time by the guy on the ground. So, a good trainer will want to straighten up and fly right any time you give it a nudge.

So, you bump the stick and observe. If you've succeeded in a change of direction, LET IT GO. Observe, let the plane stabilize and see if that was enough. If not, bump it again. Keep bumping till at one point, when you're actually headed back to the field, just let it come to you like a puppy. Remember that slight climb I mentioned? That gets spilled by any change in direction you make so that the result is, that you simply maintain altitude. IF you find yourself descending, apply ONE click of throttle and observe. Give it one more if needed. All this while your making turns and if you're climbing slightly in those turns, this will teach you that it's the ENGINE that makes the plane go up, not the elevator. Now, as you gain altitude, making those turns, you can reduce the throttle by a click or two and watch your plane, very slowly descend, as you continue your turns. This technique of climbing and descending, while turning, will teach you a number of things without having the whole process going white knuckle on you.

One of the most important aspects of flying RC is the issue that the controls SEEM reversed when the plane is coming toward you. That RCM Trainer article I mentioned? I do believe that the very first mention of the, look over your shoulder technique, was in that article. That was the key to getting me in the air, solo, for the first time, and landing with no damage. FIRST time ever. Thanks to that one, simple strategy. When the plane gets to coming toward you, swing your body around, and look over your shoulder with the TX antenna pointing in the direction of flight.

A minor point is what direction should your turns be? In my opinion, you should take off from your left to your right. This give you a LEFT turn, away from the flight line. It's a bad habit to maintain but for the first good number of flights, always turn left. It's easier, smoother and just seems to work better. Again, it's a bad habit to maintain, but for now, we just want to learn how to get airborne and down again, in one piece. Once we've achieved that, then we can practice right turns, figure eights and the like. And, of course, all the while, looking over your shoulder. As you gain flight time and experience, you'll find yourself looking over your shoulder less and less.

Finally, you can't learn on even the best trainer if your engine doesn't perform. Power is good to have but control of that power is essential. Remember, one click up? Your engine should respond exactly and instantly to that small input. It should also idle for five, ten minutes, reliably. And then, when you crack the throttle open to go round again, you need that engine to respond with no sputtering, spitting and coughing. If your engine won't do that, get one that will. Or, come here for advice on adjusting your throttle. This is especially important when flying from water. A retrieval boat is nice to have but I bring a cheap fishing rod with a rubber, casting plug attached. So, NOT getting stranded in the middle of the lake, with no breeze to bring you in, is a real treat. Being able to take off the water, smoothly, and crisply, flying around and then landing, kissing that smooth, mirror surface and settling in out of the step is not to be missed in your flying career. Taxiing back to shore, just like the real one, is the icing on the cake.

Wait, I nearly forgot the landing. Landings terrify most beginners. Especially with the instructor yelling "LEFT, DOWN, give it some DOWN. NO too much,, geez. Wait ! whateryou DOING?",,, like that. Here's how I teach landings and this can also apply when you're on your own. Remember "bump the sticks"? The idea is to learn to make smooth, easy turns with no sudden movements. With the plane trimmed to climb a bit, you maintain altitude. If you want to go up, keep doing your turns going but add one,, or two clicks of throttle. Just clicks. As you gain some altitude, reduce the throttle by a click or two to slowly descend. Up and down, round and round. Here's where landing comes in. Do your turns so that you're making passes over the runway. Go up, come down,,, over the runway. Practice, keep at it until you find yourself 4 feet off the runway and then, just chop the throttle and you'll land, smooth and gentle. And look, your knuckles aren't white, you're not shaking and that stupid grin is allowed.

on_your_six

My Feedback: (11)

With the simulator, it is possible to learn to fly all by yourself. I landed on my first lesson with an instructor at an AMA field. 3-4 months of simulator takeoffs and landings first. Yeah I have a private license, but this sure is not like full sized aircraft.

The things you miss with the simulator are learning to tune the gas and glo engines, safe field practices, flying with others... Lots more to learn than just how to push the sticks.

So yeah it is possible to do it all by yourself in a way that minimizes unsafe conditions.... part of the fun is sharing it with others.

Fourth battery after coming off the sim, I was into forward flight with my 450 sized single rotor heli... lots more sim time however.

erbroens

Is the term "body english" still in use in the U.S. ? This was a hard to get rid funny/bad habit, very common to see in the early days of r/c modeling when r/c instructors and simulators where not available.

My suggestion is if you want to learn to fly in your own, use plenty a simulator and buy a high wing foamie trainer with a electric motor. Then later go to the pond .


Enrique

Zipperneck

My Feedback: (1)

When the airplane was headed toward me, my instructor used to constantly repeat to me "to level out the flight when the plane is headed towards you, push the stick (ailerons) in the direction it is tilted".

Even after all these years of flying, I still catch myself repeating that bit of info in my head every once in a while. It helps, particularly after not flying for several months.

sailjunky

FYI I am an ama member FYI i dont only fly electrics and gliders Also i have been hit by someone at the flying field because they couldnt control there plane... He was an ama member also... And had been flying for years.   I have been doing this long enough have had  many planes and have seen people with years of experience hit power lines cars and anything else you can put in there way... And by the way when a full house composite glider comes screaming out of the sky at 150mph and hits something what do you think the impact would look like or are gliders just slow lumbering planes that do nothing.... I do listen to my friends that are older than me and they range from 40s to 70s but make no mistake im not kid out flying in parks.. I have park fliers yes but thats what they are designed for small fields. I would never fly my 50cc aircraft at one of these parks period.. And you can bash all ya want cause frankly i dont give a damn...


And Andyw Great post i enjoyed it alot...

ClearedForTheApproach

Again, thank you all for comments which have been helpful. And, Ialso thank those for comments which have been .... entertaining.

I intend to fly my airplane, by myself, successfully off the pond and return for landing without the help of an instructor. With no prior R/C experience and not as a member of any club or association. And I believe Iwill do it. And I believe Iam not being unsafe. This is why I am asking for help on how to be successful. I am not anti-club nor anti-association. I have read the association rules and should Ijoin Iwill be pleased to adhere to them.

For the naysayers, our pond is in the middle of a 90 acre ranch, and the only people in the vicinity shall be me, my wife, and her brother. Ihave carefully thought through the flight path which is away from any people or property, and if needed, there are lots of trees for them to easily hide behind for protection.For those believing Iwill not fly more than 10 seconds, there is no way to get to a neighbor's property in that short of time nor could ihit any powerlines as these are directlyoverhead the pond and Ihave no chance of hitting them if the flight is not managed under control. Ihave 1,500 incident-free flight hours in full scale aircraft including safely flying a single-engine plane to the Arctic Circle and back, and these hours were incident-free due to my care and planning around safety. Iam pursuing this project in the exact same way.

The most helpful comments, so far, are the recommendations to purchase and use a simulator and maybe start first with a foam plane to develop some of the needed skills. Ido like the idea of the simulator where I can use my actual control box connected to the PC. But there are many more suggestions which Iappreciate all the way down to spotting that Iwas only using 1 rubber band to secure the wing. (The instructions said to do that; I didn't know otherwise.)

Motivation? Irecentlybattled cancer (starting 2 yrs ago) which was grueling (at the least) and as a consequence of treatments Icould notrenew my medical to fly full scale aircraft.After diagnosis Isold both my Cessna 172XP (which Iwas intending to convert to amphibs) and my Beech Baron. 2 years later I seem healthybut just faced a very scary episode where they thought the cancerwas back (it wasn't.)I am pursuing this flight, without assistance, as a way to mentally challenge myself which would not be possible if Ihad a grizzled veteran with a buddy box wired up to me. I need such achallenge as the chemo treatments tend to fog your mind to some degree.Iam fighting back against that in a way that is most interesting to me, and this is part of my process to get back tobeing able to again fly full scale aircraft. And, to repeat, I will succeed and will not endanger anyone's safety just for my benefit.

Isn't mypursuit ofthisin some way related to the core of thishobby? Maybe you want tobuild a plane from scratch to prove you could do it? Or, try abigger engine to see what performance you get?Would you seek an instructor and buddy box if you upgraded your engine from a .40 to a .60? Would you be criticized if you did not?

I merely want to succeed for my first full flight knowing Icould do it on my own and in a way that does not, of course, endanger others.

hugger-4641

My Feedback: (6)

In case no one else has told you, you need 10 to 12 rubber bands on that plane, the last two should be criss-crossed from back edge of one wing to leading edge of the opposite wing. This will keep any of the other rubber bands from slipping off the pegs.

on_your_six

My Feedback: (11)

Hey, did they actively jerk your ticket or did you not renew... why not get an LSA? Or do BOTH LSA and RC??? [8D] That might be a lot of fun given your experience.

Your last post sounds a lot more reasonable than the initial. Best of luck to you.

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Cleared, I want to expand on something...

There are 4 methods of flying while the plane is coming toward you.

The first is rarely used, but I'll say it just for the sake of saying it, and that is "imagine yourself in the cockpit" - although truthfully, very few people can do this.

The last is usually just reserved for those of us who have been flying since Pontius was a pilot and that is, "just do it"

The other two work equally well, but you'll find that each person prefers one method to the other. They are:

1, Turn your back to the plane and look over your shoulder - this way, you and the plane are facing the same direction.

2, Face the plane and point the stick to the low wing

If you don't have a simulator, just try both in your head and see which one works best for you.

Another recommendation: If you want to save the expense of a simulator, you can download a free one called FMS (Google it) It is not as sophisticated as the high-end sims, but it WILL teach you the basics - the only catch is, you'll need a controller for it.

You can get a USB link for your existing Transmitter, for about $15, or you can get this one for $25

mschulz531

ClearedForTheApproach,
I applaud your courage and intent, and it certainly sounds like you are doing everything you can to make this as successful as possible.
I also wish you good health and continued recovery from cancer. I'm sure that losing your ability to fly full scale aircraft has been a significant heartache for you.
Obtaining a simulator and spending time with it is the best advice that I've heard. Joining a club and getting help from an instructor would be a good idea, but obviously your situation makes that impossible. It also appears that you are aware of the risks and have taken good precautions and considerations for the safety of yourself and others. In short, you've obviously thought this through, and therefore, I believe you will be successful...perhaps not without a crash or two, but you are willing to accept that risk, so I say, good for you, go for it! Videos of your flights would certainly be entertaining to us, but for me, the primary hope is that you enjoy what you are doing, find joy in it, and experience the joy of R/C flying that many others find in this hobby.
Peace,
Mike

ClearedForTheApproach

My 3rd class FAA medical was not denied it expired with no renewal in October 2007 (at the peak of the grueling treatments.) I have actively researched the LSA market and really like the idea of the Icon A5 amphib. There's not a lot of LSA amphibs to choose from and if Iwent LSAI would definitely want an amphib. If I cannot get an FAAmedical back then LSAis the way to go, as long as I never get in a position where my medical was denied.

I have a follow-up CTscan in February. If that is clear, I should not have any further tests for a long enough period where I could pursue getting my FAAmedical back. Other than a cancer history, if my scan is clear I don't have any disqualifying conditions and am on no medications at all.

MajorTomski

Ahh but there's the rub. IF you have failed to obtain a medical or you knowingly have a condition that would prevent you from having a medical then Sport Pilot/ LSA is no longer an option.

Avoid the mess since your old 3rd expired, just go straight to the SP/LSA.

fly24-7

Cleared:

Contrary to the comments of one individual, I think everyone who's responded has your best interest at heart and is rooting for you. I don't think any of the comments have been negative. These are the feelings of those who've see both successes and failures with the hobby.

You're clearly are determined to go this alone. I wish you luck. I also hope that if you do experience some initial setbacks, you don't throw in the towel. You may have to go through some early failures before you experience success. Or, maybe you'll be one of those guys who can bring it all together quickly. Time will tell.

Whatever happens, please insure that at all times you're using good judgement and don't put youself, others or property in danger. I've seen too many crashes by capable pilots because of bad judgement.

Zipperneck

My Feedback: (1)

With all that planning and preparation... be sure to film the whole adventure and post it here. Your video will either prove or disprove the theory that going it alone is a bad choice... at least for your ego/wallet.

Good luck!

rcsws

My Feedback: (3)

I have just read this entire saga. Most have given good advice, but nobody mentioned a not so small safety factor.

It is one that we all have forgotten from time to time and some have paid the price. That spinning prop is dangerous, and while flying by yourself may be safe, working with that engine on the ground can be more dangerous, espicially without some means of communication in case of emergency. Please make sure that everybody knows where you are and that you have some means of communication right with you. A first aid kit is also a must. In my thirty years of flying I have seen two people loose fingers, dozens have had to have stiches and hundreds chop up thier hands. Just be careful and be aware at all times.

Keep safe and keep us posted- it should be interesting.

ravill

My Feedback: (11)

Cleared,

You are going to be fine. Whether your model will be or not, maybe up to debate and only the maiden date will prove one way or the other.

Get a simulator. And practice, practice until you can bring it back to the runway. Make the view on the simulator to include keeping the ground in view. Then take your airplane up. I promise you will hurt it really bad if you don't try to learn on a simulator.

But that is what this hobby is all about! Once you get flying, make an effort to go to a local club and wait till you see your first turbine! You will HAVE to have one! Talk about challenging yourself! A turbine will keep you on your toes and make you smile ear to ear!

No matter how your airplane turns out, you'll be fine. Have a ball!

Raf

on_your_six

My Feedback: (11)

OK then, I have the plan for you... jump into the LSA and fly the RC in front of yourself... that way you will always be flying from the same point of view...

Yeah, just don't try for the 3rd class when you know you will not qualify... that precludes you from everything. I have been looking at the new Cesna 162 Skycatcher. I do not like the controls... I don't know about floats, but it sounds like you are up to some good fun.

Really... the sim worked for me and you can build time quick. Be aware these earthlings laugh at our ratings (me single private[]). They really don't count for crap when it comes to RC. It is like learning all over again. You feel so darn stupid at times. The airman ship does help at times, but it is so different. Make a friend or two along the way.

j33p3r

My Feedback: (142)

The way I learned to fly solo is - 1. get a GOOD simulator.
2. Fly the simulator in an environment like you will fly. Mine was a highschool oval so I selected the high school oval in real flight.
3. Fly the simulator until you can do an inverted figure 8 and land it safely (where you intend it) 3 times in a row.

these next 2 steps are for you

4. Get an easy star or a hobbyzone supercub and fly it til its warn out or packing peanuts.
5. get a video camera and launch your seaplane in a large body of water...... Im thinking lake michigan would be good for a maiden
then video it and send it to me

edh13

My Feedback: (9)

Don't let the Safety Sallys get you. Your plane, your property, your family… Go for it!

A) Wait for no wind conditions. Drink ONE beer to calm thumbs. Okay maybe two...
B) You CANNOT take your eyes off the model, so get a good mental picture of the surroundings.
C) Family has to stay in a group next to you.
D) Stand behind model on takeoff. After-climb out be prepared to do "something" soon. Don't let it get too far out.
E) Small "bump" inputs, don't hold the stick out of null for any length of time.
F) Minimize pilot load, when airborne forget the LH stick. After climb-out set TH at 60% and leave it. Don't need rudder.
G) Rotate your body keeping antenna oriented to acft-fwd. Look over your shoulder if need be.
H) Just do oval patterns, 1)blip-bank, 2)blip-pull, 3)blip-opposite-bank. Plan to do it again in about 5 seconds. Repeat…
I) Long final, keep speed until over threshold.

With a balanced, trimmed and broken-in model I'd give your chance of success about 40%.

If it's the models first flight also… 10%. Have your wife trim while you try and keep it in the air.

Get a good video with auto-focus off and set to infinity.

GOOD LUCK