Hello everyone,
I have been building and flying for 20 years and looking to get my first turbine aircraft to get my waiver with. I have heard many good things about the boomerang intro. but I have always liked the f-16. I have heard the Cermark/Tamjets f-16 is very easy to fly. Do you think it would be appropriate as a first turbine aircraft I could learn on and get my turbine waiver with??? I would plan on using a Wren mw54 mk3 engine at 14# of thrust. Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Jon

That's how I started. It's a good combo.

I started jets in November of last year with a Tamjet F-16 and I got my waiver in a very short time. The best part about Tam's composite F-16 is that it will NOT tip stall no matter how slow you fly it. For the investment and ease of flight there is no better option.

Russ

I beg to differ...

I have the same combo, so speak with some experience.... It is a great little jet, but unless you have experience with small very fast planes
(fast relative to glow powered sport planes), you'd be better off starting with something simpler, slower, and bigger such as the Reaction54 or Boomerang. With any jet, you have to be flying way in advance of it, and this one in particular as it gets very small very quickly.....and the white ones blend into any type of cloud cover adding to the difficulty in orientation. I guess it is possible to get your waiver on it, as noted in the posts above, but you are stacking a lot of cards against yourself right from the get go.....My advice would be to get a simpler jet, learn on it, transfer your equipement over to the F-16 as your second plane, and sell the trainer.....

Doi't let the last advice deter you. At least three here have gotten their waiver on their first jet being a Cermark version 16. 14# class is more than enough power and deadsticks like any other prop plane practically. I had a failure on takeoff right at the first turn and was able to complete the entire landing pattern back to the runway no problem.
If you have flown any of the faster prop planes like a Patriot comfortably you will have absolutely no problem. If you have been flying big slow warbirds then you may be better off with the Boomer. Go with your gut, if you like the 16 get it, It really is an easy airplane to fly and landings are fantastice with it.
BC

I started with a Cermark F-16.. it even survived a deadstick on the TEST FLIGHT !! [X(] (which was my first ever flight on a turbine jet)

Agree with everyone. Wayne has a very solid point, I loose sight of my Edwards -16 all the time when it is coming straight at me, you really need to know what you are doing at all times.

How long is your runway? A good pilot can land the F-16 in 200 ft, an avarage pilot will take 500 ft+, a newbie will most likely take a lot of runway! There is a trick to the approach and flare and you have to do it right, nose has got to be up at all times, if you land with wings flat you will touch down at 50 mph.

So anwering your question, it could be done. I wouldn't mind training a newbie on a Falcon.

There is more to flying jets than skill and experience. You can call it anxiety, fear, pucker, ect. Your heart rate raises, adrenaline flows and during these times you can take too much time to make a move and maybe make it in the wrong direction. With a jet a wrong move is a crash. I have built, owned and flown 3 of the jets mentioned and presently own one. It was my second jet and it still has gotten in front of me a few times. It also doesn't take to hard landings well ( you will make some hard landings!!). It flys very well and glides great but I'm glad I flew a Rookie for my waiver before the F16. It is small and gets smaller real fast at full throttle. And as mentioned, the white version is hard to see on a hazy day. It depends on your age more than your experience IMHO. If you are under 50 and fly 100 mph+ planes now you will probably be OK. But if you are getting senior discounts at Denny's, I would suggest buying a spare airframe or a Boomer. It also depends on who you are getting to help you on the box.

I started with a Cermark F-16 and i love it!

BTW Jon, Im going to sell my Cermark F-16 RTF, PM me if you are interested. It is a veterna but still flies great! Will let go cheap!

David

I am currently learning on a TamJets F-16 which flys great. The most important thing which has been echoed here a couple of times, is setting up the landing. Everything else is cake. You have to monitor your speed carefully and stay ahead of the plane. If you have a short runway just put your brakes on before your touch down and you will be fine. I only recommend this with Tams brakes, not anyone elses. But the plane flys great, handles solid and fly's unbelievably well in the wind.

Thankyou everyone for your input. I really appreciate all the comments and suggestions. As far as the f-16 goes, what would be the better airframe to get? The Cermark with built-up covered wings or Tams all composite airframe. Thanks again for all the help. Jon

Go with Tam's. Great service all the way, especially for you since you are just starting out with turbines. More than likely you will have some questions and he is a great guy to deal with.

Regards

Alex

This reminds me of when i started flying rc back in the 70`s. I wanted a P-51 for my first plane. A friend and club member sent me to the hobby shop to buy an Andrews H-ray. I built it and LEARNED to fly RC loving every minute of flight. I have owned several F-16`s, two Aviation Design and one Avonds. The smaller Tams or Cermark can be very fun to fly in the right hands, other wise the F-16...any of them... are very demanding jets that one needs to pay close attention too while it flight and landings.IMO go with a sport trainer like the boomer and ease the work load while learing to handle turbine powered jets.

V..

I have flown both the Baby Boomerang and the Cermark F-16 quite a bit, both with P60s. The F-16 flys fine and looks good but has narrow gear and doesn't like to be turned at speed on the ground. It loves to drag wingtips and I think it is a little lightly built for a turbine aircraft. I have no experience with Tams version. It does get small in a hurry. It's not really that fast, 135mph with a P60 gear up....about 100 mph gear down and almost seems to struggle. The Boomerang tops out just over 100mph with fixed gear.
Don't underestimate the Baby Boomerang. It is a joy to fly, is more aerobatic than the F-16 and generaly inspires confidence. Yes, it doesn't look as cool as the F-16 but it is much more of a "flyer".
I am currently flying the Baby Boomerang, The cermark F-16 and a KingCat with a P120 which is also a great flying airplane.
My advice..
Buy the Baby Boomerang
Use fixed gear and avoid the weight and hassle of retracts on your first turbine.
I love the kerosene start.
Get comfortable with it...Get your waiver and then move to something more heavily loaded.
It does take a little time to get used to landing jets with higher wing loadings. High angle of attack..power for altitude control... etc.
You don't need to be learning that while the examiner is hovering over your shoulder.
A couple of pics of the F-16 with a P70 in it.
I have videos of both airplanes. I will try to post them.
Good luck!

Whizbang

Trying the pics agian

does anyone know if Tam & Cermark both come with the retracts?? i have the prop nose version from Cermark,,, considering getting the turbine version,, just wondering about the retracts? ...

The prop version's retract is too weak for the turbine version.

F16 is a great flyer for experienced pilots, but its' narrow gear sometimes makes pro look like rookies. Go with F15 if you want something scale. Xtreme jet, JL have good F15 airframes to choose from.

Boomarang - is a great trainer, but you don't get to learn much about flying with good throttle management. Great fun, but skill upgradability is limited.

Mike

Tam's retracts are seperate unless you buy the package from him. I believe it is the same with Cermark as they used to be the same airplane.

Whizbang, where can i check that video of the F-16 ?

Both of these videos were taken early in my jet flying career.

Link to video of Cermark F-16 with P-60
http://www.rcuvideos.com/item/X29GWDXJ3J9FM0DV
Link to video of Baby Boomerang with P-60
http://www.rcuvideos.com/item/X29GWDXJ3J9FM0DV

Whizbang

Whizbang, is that a P60 or a P70 in the F-16 jet ? reason i ask is that i have the same plane and thinking about a little more speed using a P70 !

Oops!
Boomerang video.
http://rcuvideos.com/item/S2L6TXK864V43LKK

Whizbang

The pictures are of a P70.
The engine had a bad tach sensor in it and it went into overspeed the first time I ran it and ruined the bearings.
Very impressive thrust. Thought it was too much for a p70.

Put a P60 in it while the P70 was away for repair and that it what was in it in the video. Had a leaky main cylinder the day the video was shot..so the gear stayed down. Really hurts performance. Flys much better with the gear up. I will fly it with the P70 just to see what it is like but I think the P60 is a better match. I worry about the strength of the airframe. I have heard of the Cermark F-16 shedding wings. I do not pull on it very hard. Others may have worked it hard with success.

Whizbang

Ian,

How short can you land with your Tamjets F-16 using the setup you mentioned? Do you think it would be possible to take off and land on a paved runway 300ft long?

Thanks. Dany