Hi everyone,


I have been told that the futaba 12fg and 12z are able to be used as 14 channel systems. 12+2 is what they call it. Can someone tell me how this is possible? In addition, some have referred to this as a 'virtual' channel for the remaining 2.

Any help would be appreciated

Best,
Andy K

I heard the 12Z was able to use the full 14, but not the FG. Don't go carving that in stone, as its just what I'd read... The other big differentiator is that the 12Z and 14MZ could use the MPDX-1 to gain additional proportional channels, while the FG does not.

What I'm unclear on is the functionality of the 72 vs 2.4 gig versions, such as the FG models. I'm not quite ready to jump in and rely on 2.4 yet, but could be convinced to stick with a 12Z on 72, so long as the core functionality does not change in 72 to 2.4 gig. IE, will a 72 that's upgraded to 2.4 contain the same capabilities vs the equivalent version that provided as 2.4 from day 1?

Kelly

The 12MZ has 12+2. You need the latest firmware update, but the units shipping for the last several month have it.

Channel 13 and 14 are Digital channels, only on or off and reversing.

The "virtual" channel is a different animal. It is a concept that makes it easier to do different things.

Let's say I have a virtual channel called "spoilers" but I don't have actual spoilers, I have both of my rudders that cant inward to act as a spoiler. So if I wanted a mix or some other feature I can apply it to the virtual "spoiler" channel and the radio takes care of the rest.

I have heard that is the case (i.e. 14 channel FASST is identical to 14 channel G3) but seeing is believing.

Exactly...

Since I ready your earlier posts on the 12Z, and other info elsewhere, I got really excited. I've always discounted the G3 units value for jets due to the issues raised over noise. Now that you can get all the channels you pretty well need on 1024 with an expander, the 12Z suddenly looks like a pretty attractive radio!

Did I also read that the 14MZ can use 2 of the MPDX-1 units, while the 12 only allows for a single expander, is that correct? Whats your experience with the expander so far Matt? I understand you can adjust endpoints, but the instructions weren't all that clear. For example, can you set the center position? Also, the expanded channels are not available to any mixes in any way? Does that mean driving them with a mix, and driving other channels with an expanded channel?

Lastly, the delay. Does this refer to an offset in control input from the time of input to a reaction, or is this just a servo slow function? Just curious if this could replace a gear door sequencer...

Thx,
Kelly

Hi Kelly,

Yes and those MPDX-1 features will even work with a spektrum module (in PPM) so you hedge your bet on the FASST module. But I think FASST is going to be nice.

The 12MZ will indeed run 2 MPDX-1 modules. I am telling you I am not sure what the 14MZ can do that the 12 can't. I am sure it is something but I don't know what it is.

As for the MPDX-1 channel adjustments, to me if you can set the 2 endpoints (via ATV), that is the same as being able to change the center, but it is late so maybe I am missing something. But you are right, you can't mix or trim those channels either. You can however set failsafe and a servo slow feature.

When I spoke about the MPDX-1 servo "delays" that is different than the built in servo slow function. What I mean is the MPDX-1 channels must be updating much slower than the standard 50 Hz. I have not put a scope on it but I think it is safe to assume they are getting updated at 1/8th the rate (in PPM, not sure about in G3 or FASST). I think the 16 MPDX-1 channels are usable for anything except primary flight controls and nose steering.

Thanks for your responses....do you happen to know if the 12FG additionally allows for this functionality, or would it be wise to simply purchase the 12Z

Thanks again!
Andy K

Hi Andy,

If you are talking about the MPDX-1 proportional channel expander, then the 12FG certaintly does not have it. I also do not know if the 12FG has the extra 2 digital channels.

If those things don't matter to you I would say look closely at the 12FG, it looks like a nice piece.

For scale jets this is a no brainer you got to have the MPDX-1 (and the extra 8 channels) and that means a 12MZ, IMHO.

The 12FG does have the switched 13 and 14th channel available. the MPDX-1 currently does not work with it, but with the software updates, they could add it later.

Only a few differences between the Z and FG, one being lack of mixture control and no spline curves. If you look at the manuals, they are almost page for page the same.

Jeff

Thanks for clearing it up Matt, I totally misinterpreted the delay obviously... Makes sense now, although in a perfect world with mixing and timed offsets it sure would be nice to make your own custom door sequencer.

Thinking through the endpoint adjustment again, I see how the center point adjustment isn't a big deal, but sub trimming a center point is frequently a really nice digital solution to a mechanical problem... That's what I was looking for.

What still keeps me suspicious here is that its common practice to manufacture a single product, dressing it up slightly different and software-crippling it to create multiple entries into a market. (like a Ram-1000 or 750+ for example) I'm not referring specifically to the R/C industry, but by that logic one would expect that Futaba won't have a huge amount of effort being poured into making the 12FG operate with the same functionality of their higher profit margin alternatives. There's no way you could expect the 14MZ to survive at its current price point with one or 2 minor software differences and a colour LCD panel... I'm surprised how close they seem to operate as it is! That's what leads me to believe the MPDX-1 won't likely be added to the 12FG's spec for quite a while. Maybe as the G3 products mature and the loss of 12Z/14MZ sales will be minimized, then maybe they would activate the feature to please customers and make sure they buy another Futaba... I'm obviously just guessing here though.

Its too bad the mixing is unavailable on the MPDX-1. I've worked on a few jets where it would have been nice to have a small satellite plug-in for the nose steering, retracts, brakes, pneumatic air brake, opening canopy, pilot turning his head and whatever else you can think of with all those outputs...

Kelly

Indeed, I agree 100%. It is so bad I am not sure that Futaba set out to make the 12 and 14 end up so close in features with an 800 dollar price difference! . I think it is possible that they did not want to maintain 2 "branches" of their sw code, and when they merged the 12 and the 14, the 12 got a lot of features on the encoder side (like all of them!). That is just a theory.

The only other explanation I can think of is that the 14 is going to be discontinued, and the 12 becomes the high end and the 12FG becomes the 9C replacement. Not sure, I could be all wet. I will say that maybe 1 user out of 20 would have a need for the MPDX-1, and I bet that person would pay the 300 dollar (or whatever the difference is) for the 12MZ. That alone would tend to keep the MPDX-1 feature out of the 12FG, just the pure fact that people will pay that much for it.

I got my 12Z for 1199 I think , so the difference between mine and a 12FG is 200 bucks, the MPDX-1 is worth 5X that to me for the big scale jets.

As far as 'noise issues' with G3 .... with jets ..... Anything I should be concerned with ? I have been flying my jet with a 12Z ..... ? Thanks. Bob

Are you using Mode A or B?
Supposedly mode B is better at noise rejection. By how much? Only Futaba knows and it's not saying[:@]

I placed a call into the futaba support center, and they told me that the MPDX-1 expander was only compatible with the 14MZ currently. Has anyone used this successfully with the 12Z?

THanks,
Andy K

see post 6

Edgar, I purchased my 12Z about a year and a half ago ... when they were first available. I am using the 5014 receiver (I am not sure this allows for the Mode A/B option). I probably do not need to be concerned anymore anyway ...... as I will soon transitin to 2.4. Bob