Couple of beginner questions
 

I bought my first boat, an inexpensive Joysway Offshore Warrior Lite. I've got a couple of questions:

1) I keep seeing references to greasing the shaft. I looked at the shaft and am not really sure what to grease. Do these small, inexpensive boats need to be greased? If so, what do I grease?

2) The boat comes with a 7.2 v, 1100 mah battery. I figure I'll get a second battery, but might as well get something that will run a little longer and maybe givea little more speed/power. Any suggestions?

RE: Couple of beginner questions
 

Re battery lipo is the way but you will need a lipo charger- essential if you are staying in the hubby.<div>
</div><div>I believe you remove the shaft from the sleeve but not sure- best wait!</div>

RE: Couple of beginner questions
 

Batteries - you should do a bunch of reading.  LiPo's are the best way to go, but you should understand C rating capacities and voltages so you can make an informed purchase.  I am sure some one on here can also say, just buy . . . from hobby king and you will be set.<div>
</div><div>As for greasing, a little lube will help performance and longevity of the boat.  If it runs a flex shaft, you pull the cable out of the sleeve and lube it up.  You can also flush the shaft out with something like WD40. (WD40 is awesome because it cases water out, and leaves behind lubrication)</div><div>
</div><div>If it is a straight shaft, there should be somewhere to drop oil in, again WD40 to chase out the water, ten some nice oil.</div><div>
</div><div>The grease/oil will lessen friction, which will lessen load and heat which equals, more power to the prop.</div>

RE: Couple of beginner questions
 

I would be cautious fitting a lipo battery to a boat setup with a brushed motorand NiMH.

You need to remove the flexshaft, entirely to lubricated it, which is why I hate flexshafts in the first place.

You need to loosen both grub screws holding the flexshaft on (3rd grub screw secures to the motor shaft) and remove it, and re-grease it after every day's outing.

I've elimnated the flexshaft\teflon liner from my setup as it's a PITA and have gone to a straight shaft (with a flex tip) and I only need to lubricate the prop shaft. I can keep the grub screws tightened on the flex tip and just loosen the motor shaft grub screw, slide the assembly back about 1 inch and slab some light weight grease on the prop stub. Alot less friction and less mainteneance.

Sounds like you're already ready for more speed....... How do you like the Warrior Lite?

Aaron is now carrying spares for Joysway (no shipping cost):

http://www.banggood.com/buy/joysway/...0-0_page1.html

Isuggest picking up a few spare flexhsafts for replacement\experimentation:

http://www.banggood.com/Wholesale-Jo...0487522012019E

RE: Couple of beginner questions
 

I would def go the lipo route but it will eat the motor up. The peformance gain from power and less weight will make you smile im sure of it. than you have the option to order a brushless system down the road



massive overkill im already making my own flex shafts which do a great job in my cheap brushed application. But you have me wondering about the straight shaft to flex tip. If the cable is properly undersized compared to the drive tube is that really less friction than a straight shaft ran through brass tube then to a strut? I believe it almost, cables tendancy to have a harmonic friction does create considerable friction + wear and tear on the tube. Can i see a pic of your flex tip setup? what is the length of the shaft and is the shaft just supported at the ends for less friction?

RE: Couple of beginner questions
 

The prop stub acts as the support in the brass tubing tube at that end, which is long enough to helpalign the straight shaft at the motor end, the key being that you either have enough clearance at the motor end so thatthe end of the straight shaft doesn't touch the stuffing tube when spinning so it's free-floating, or have have tight enough clearance to where it doesn't whip, but then you need to lubricated that end when you lubricate the stub.

It definately creates less friction and I can use lighter cable lube vs heavy marine grease. When I spin my prop by hand, it free spins as if I were turning just the motor vs a greased teflon lner where when you turn the prop by hand, when you let go, it stops right there.

Here's my latest:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...X/23d9e902.jpg

I can tell when I have whip as it's very audible when bringing the boat in. My first video you can actually hear it. I discovered that your grub screws securing the flex need to be equally tightened so that the flex is perfectly centered. This is another reasoon why I don't like flexhafts, you have to constantly remove the grub screws holding the flex, which leaves chance for error every time you relube and eats up your flex. Of course there are the collettes that don't use grubs, but these are heavy.

With the straight shaft with flex tip, Iget my flex perfectly aligned in thecoupler and never touch it again. I only have to loosen the grub screw that secures the motor shaft, before pulling the shaft back, I'll throw some light lube on the shaft at the motor end, the pull the shaft out about an inch and then slather some light lube on the prop stub. It takes me literally under a minute to loosen and relube vs the mess and time to fully remove a flexshaft assembly and lube it.

If the system runs dry, you're not going to get the damage you get from a flexshaft setup that's run dry, you'll get some minor galling atmost since brass is self-lubricating. You also don't have to worry about rust and corrosion. The flex tip stays dry and brass doesn't rust. Oh yeah, no more worrying about having to worry about leaving enough clearance at the dog for flex shrinkage.The tigher clearance also helps prevent water intrusion from the stuffing tube. Lateral movement stress on your bearings isreduced as well, especially ifyou can use thrust washers.

RE: Couple of beginner questions
 

what part of the shaft is flex and what part solid? i see the tube is wider at the motor side and it looks to be flex. is it flex to solid to flex than the prop stub?!

RE: Couple of beginner questions
 

The flex tip inserts about halfway into the larger hollow brass tube at the motor end. The main part of the shaft is smallerdiameterhollow brass tube. Everything is secured with Permatex Red. The wider brass tube is the same diameter as the prop stub.

I also made a variant, replacing the the main hollow brass tube with carbon rod, but I used what I had on hand and had to make brass adapters to fit.

I've had alot of scathing attacks about using carbon rod in a driveshaft. Let me tell you, that experimental shaft Imade...........Istill cannot get it apart, this is after heating up the carbon as a result of using heat to break down the Permatex red. If the carbon shaft had failed, it may have cracked, but not broken in two. The stuff is strong.

RE: Couple of beginner questions
 

You got that right and i believe it. So this is a straight shaft??? Straight shafts are the enemy of rc boating right? lol how can you tune your boat w/o adjusting prop depth and angle?

RE: Couple of beginner questions
 

Can't have your cake and eat it too. For my boat, which doesn't have a stinger, or curved stuffing shaft, it's not a factor as the original stuffing tube is a straight stainless steel tube. Iactually can play with my angle about 2-3 mm at the motor end either way. If space allows, you shift weight to further compensate, which is also what I've done.

RE: Couple of beginner questions
 

Shifting tthe weight forward sounds like good compensation. can i see your boat?!

RE: Couple of beginner questions
 

Actually I've had to shift it backwards:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu3pqnpnQew

RE: Couple of beginner questions
 

Good info, guys. A few more questions:

1) There are (3) grub screws, 1 near the motor and 2 on the opposite side of the collar connecting the shaft to the motor (don't know what that collar piece is called). Am I supposed to loosen the two screws furthest from the motor to remove the shaft?

2) The only grease I have right now is white grease. Will that work? Also, I have WD-40. Should I just use that instead? Should I use both?

3) I really don't want to commit to lipos yet... I doubt my cheap heli lipo chargers (E-Flite chargers) would adequately charge a lipo pack, though if they would, lipos might be an option.I simplydon't want to invest a lot of money in lipos/charger at this point.soa replacement NiMH is probably best. If I end up getting abetter brushless boat later, I'llhave to deal with a lipo battery/charger at that point.

As far as the Warrior Lite is concerned, I've only had one run, but it was a lot of fun. It has been years since I'verun acouple oftoy boats thatran maybe 2-3 mph so this thing seems pretty fast and agile. I was kind of impressed with how it actually got up on ran onplane. I'm not sure what I was expecting, but like a real boat, this boat drags and is "mushy" until it gets out of the hole. However once on plane,it zips around like crazy.

RE: Couple of beginner questions
 

1) There are (3) grub screws, 1 near the motor and 2 on the opposite side of the collar connecting the shaft to the motor (don't know what that collar piece is called). Am I supposed to loosen the two screws furthest from the motor to remove the shaft?

That's the motor coupler, and yes you remove the two screws furthest from the motor as they are the ones that hold onto the flexshaft. When you re-tighten them, you want to use loctite on the grub screws and turn the prop over by hand a few times and make sure the flexshaft is properly centered. You can go the extra step of soldering the tip of the flexshaft. Make sure it's really clean. You can also sand the flexshaft where it's encased in the stuffing tube to reduce friction. When you put the flexshaft back in, you want to leave some clearance between the drive dog and stuffing tube which should measure the width of the flexshaft to accomodate for flex shrinkage when under load. Another preventative measure is to coat the prop shaft assembly with Corrosion X or a thin coat of lacquer. While I'm sure you'll agree this is a great bang for the buck, it comes with is caveats of being a Chineese product, and the prop shaft isn't stainless steel like OSE units. It will slowly corrode so coating the surface will help. You could do this with the prop installed but then again, I showed you the link for replacement flexshafts, which are only 3-4 bucks shipped.

While you have your sandpaper out, you can sand the bottom of your hull (actually use a red scotch brite pad) to remove the shine. You can also remove any hooks/rockers near the back. Use a straight-edge to verify the back is perfectly flat. Idon't think you'll have any as my hull was perfect and should be from the same mold, but you never know.

2) The only grease I have right now is white grease. Will that work? Also, I have WD-40. Should I just use that instead? Should I use both?

White lithium grease will work. I wouldn't use WD40, it's not viscous\sticky and is more of a water dispersant\rust preventative than it is a lubricant. I use cable lube myself only because it's easy to find at local hardware stores and is light enough to help reduce drag. Marine grease creates a lot of drag, so I don't use it:

http://www.agscompany.com/lubricants/automotive/160

Grim Racer grease is supposed to be really good if you can find it at your local hobby shop. If you ever get sick of the routine of lubing your flexshaft, see my posts about making a straigh shaft (with flex tip).

3) I really don't want to commit to lipos yet... I doubt my cheap heli lipo chargers (E-Flite chargers) would adequately charge a lipo pack, though if they would, lipos might be an option.I simplydon't want to invest a lot of money in lipos/charger at this point.soa replacement NiMH is probably best. If I end up getting abetter brushless boat later, I'llhave to deal with a lipo battery/charger at that point.

I agree, keep this boat NiMH. You plan on making ityour rescue boat if you get another. What I like about my brushed NiMH rescue boat is that Ican keep the batteries fully charged and stored for an emergency.......you don't want to do that with Lipos. Lipo and brushless mean more power and more wear on your running gear...........remember this is going to eventually be your rescue boat.

As far as the Warrior Lite is concerned, I've only had one run, but it was a lot of fun. It has been years since I'verun acouple oftoy boats thatran maybe 2-3 mph so this thing seems pretty fast and agile. I was kind of impressed with how it actually got up on ran onplane. I'm not sure what I was expecting, but like a real boat, this boat drags and is "mushy" until it gets out of the hole. However once on plane,it zips around like crazy.

That's typical. The run like dogs as the prop cavitates and the setup won't go very fast until it gets up to speed. Going full speed puts less strain on the motor and ESC than going partial throttle (as I've had to learn the hard way) as running the boat when it's not on plane puts alot more strain\load on the system when most of the hull is still in the water.

How fast would you say it's going? About 20 MPH/30 KPH? Did yours come with the upgraded 480 motor?

RE: Couple of beginner questions
 

Thanks for the info, MassiveOverkill. You are correct in that this will either become a rescue boat for a better boat, or will just be a fun, casual toy... time will tell. Either way, Lipos seem like a big investment, and I'm not really trying to get this boat to do a lot more. If it does nothing more, I'm happy.I really justwant asecond NiMH so I can change batteries. I figured that if I could go with something a little stronger, I might get a little more speed and longer run times so if it's only spending a few more bucks, it is probably worth getting a little better NiMH.The manual states about 8 minutes run time, and I found that to be about right for my first run. Even just going with the same battery is ok as it would give me around 15 minutes of runnig time, with a few minutes inbetween for cooling. Any specific recommendations for a little better NIMH that won't harm the motor or shaft?

I'll get a couple of extra flexshafts, and I guess until I find something better, I'll go with the white/lithium grease. For me, it is easier to order stuff online than search around hobby stores (none real close to me anyway). I have an adult form of Muscular Dystrophy and don't get around very well walking. Going out shopping becomes a chore as I need to get close to the door, and if there is a lot of walking involved I've got a problem, etc. etc.

Greasing the shaft every outingseems extreme. Heck, I didn't grease the wheel hubs ofmy bassboat trailer everyouting and those got completely submerged, twice, every trip. Why is it necessary to grease every outing... especially ifinside the hull stays pretty dry?

The boat does have the 480 motor. Honestly, it is hard to speculate how fast the it is going. It looks like it is going about 40 mph... just because I'm not used to it. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if it wasdoing every bit of 15 mph+. It will also plane at a relatively slow speed (you don't have to be near wideopen to get on plane). I hadn't thought about the engine wear at slower speeds,but it makes sense. Thatmotor is likely working harder getting on plane than it is once on plane.

RE: Couple of beginner questions
 

8 minutes is really a long time. Ionly get 4.5-5 minutes from my higher-rated LiPobatteries. Have you felt the motor and speed controller after a full run? If they're not running hot then you may be OK getting a higher capacity battery or even an 8.4V, but you have to be careful as I'm not sure if your integrated RX\ESC will properly adjust voltage to the BEC circuit likea proper brushless ESC would. Also my boat was very sensitive to weight changes, so getting a larger battery usually means more weight, which can affect the characteristics of the boat. There's also clearance issues. I would just get another 1100 mah 7.2 cell

Hobby People carry spares but they're currently out of stock:

http://www.hobbypeople.net/index.php...lite-7-2v.html

Check your manual for maximum dimensions, or even measure it yourself to see how much room you have, which may allow you to go with a more conventional flat pack instead of the triangular pack. Better yet, post a picture of the battery area so I can confirm the layout is the same as mine, and if so, you can use 105x35x22 mm for maximum battery size.

Unfortunately if you don't check the flexshaft and water gets on part of the flex that isn't lubed, it will start to rust. You can easilyconvert it to straight shaft as I did by placing brass tube over part of the flex that's encased in the stuffing tube. You'll want to seal\glue the brass tube to the flex so water can't get using something like Permatex red. My boat actually picked up quite a bit of speed after doing this modand getting rid of the teflon liner (you keep the larger teflon piece that goes over the prop stub.</p>

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11112193

The brass tube can be found at AceHardware (same with Permatexred) andI think you can order it online. You'llneeda tubing cutter, but I suppose a dremel will workas well. With this setup you don't have to remove theshaft completely like with theflex setup. Youundo the grub screwholding onto the motor shaftand before sliding the shaft back, slather some lubeon theshaft at themotor end, then slide the shaft backas faras the motor coupling will permit and then slab somemore lube on he prop stub and then push it back in and tigthen the grub screw. If you properlyseal theflexshaft (it must be cleanedthoroughly) to the brasstube, you won't have to worry about flex shrinkage and you can run the dog collar closer to theend of the stuffing tube out back, which will help with water intrusion.

Dry run the new setup and see if you get whipping of the shaft in the stuffing tube at the motor end, if you do you can cuta small piece of yourdiscardedteflon tube and place it at the motor end of the stuffing tube, just make sure you let it protrude outside the stuffing tube and secure it there so it doesn't slide back.

</p>

RE: Couple of beginner questions
 

8 minutes is really a long time. Ionly get 4.5-5 minutes from my higher-rated LiPobatteries. Have you felt the motor and speed controller after a full run? If they're not running hot then you may be OK getting a higher capacity battery or even an 8.4V, but you have to be careful as I'm not sure if your integrated RX\ESC will properly adjust voltage to the BEC circuit likea proper brushless ESC would. Also my boat was very sensitive to weight changes, so getting a larger battery usually means more weight, which can affect the characteristics of the boat. There's also clearance issues. I would just get another 1100 mah 7.2 cell

Hobby People carry spares but they're currently out of stock:

http://www.hobbypeople.net/index.php...lite-7-2v.html

Check your manual for maximum dimensions, or even measure it yourself to see how much room you have, which may allow you to go with a more conventional flat pack instead of the triangular pack. Better yet, post a picture of the battery area so I can confirm the layout is the same as mine, and if so, you can use 105x35x22 mm for maximum battery size.

Unfortunately if you don't check the flexshaft and water gets on part of the flex that isn't lubed, it will start to rust. You can easilyconvert it to straight shaft as I did by placing brass tube over part of the flex that's encased in the stuffing tube. You'll want to seal\glue the brass tube to the flex so water can't get using something like Permatex red. My boat actually picked up quite a bit of speed after doing this modand getting rid of the teflon liner (you keep the larger teflon piece that goes over the prop stub.</p>

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11112193

The brass tube can be found at AceHardware (same with Permatexred) andI think you can order it online. You'llneeda tubing cutter, but I suppose a dremel will workas well. With this setup you don't have to remove theshaft completely like with theflex setup. Youundo the grub screwholding onto the motor shaftand before sliding the shaft back, slather some lubeon theshaft at themotor end, then slide the shaft backas faras the motor coupling will permit and then slab somemore lube on he prop stub and then push it back in and tigthen the grub screw. If you properlyseal theflexshaft (it must be cleanedthoroughly) to the brasstube, you won't have to worry about flex shrinkage and you can run the dog collar closer to theend of the stuffing tube out back, which will help with water intrusion.

Dry run the new setup and see if you get whipping of the shaft in the stuffing tube at the motor end, if you do you can cuta small piece of yourdiscardedteflon tube and place it at the motor end of the stuffing tube, just make sure you let it protrude outside the stuffing tube and secure it there so it doesn't slide back.

With this setup, I canrelube in under a minute and can go one or two dayswithout relubing the shaft.</p>

RE: Couple of beginner questions
 

You could try a 7 cell hump pack nimh would be 8.4v nothing too extreme and a 480 motor can easily take twice that. Not sure what your boat looks like but might even try getting a 14v esc if you have room for two 7.2 packsAs for greasing the cable and shaft its up to how long your looking for it to last. Your hubs on your trailer are thick pieces of metal and hold a lot more grease that doesn't escape while spinning but the grease on your boat does. The rust on the cable and shaft is a lot more in comparison than the hub bearings and will increase the wear and tear on your brass stinger/strut or whatever supports the drive line and decrease speed. Also you said you were unsure what to grease. I personally hit every piece of mechanical moving part I can. Motor bushings front and rear or bearings if it has any, servo horn and if your boat gets submerged take that puppy apart dry it and throw grease in the gear housing. If your steering drive has a rubber gasket forget what its called throw a dab of grease in there it will prevent any wear and tear on the gasket, stop it from ever drying out and letting water in.

RE: Couple of beginner questions
 

It's hard to say on battery time. Since there isn't LVC like in helis, you're really just dealing with a degradation of speed/power to tell when time is about up. My first run, I started running and then realized I hadn't set a timer. I then set my timer on my phone for 8 minutes. I felt like I was getting a good bit of speed/power loss and brought the boatback a little after 7 minutes on my timer, but I'm not sure how long I ran before I set the timer. The second run was a complete mishap. The boat fell out of my launching system into the water and then shot under the dock. It was pointed at the bank, and I couldn't get it turned around so it got stuck on some rocks. I won't go through all of the comedy of errors that followed, butit took me about 5+ minutes to get it unstuck. I then ran for about 6.5 minutes on the timer, and felt like it was beginning to lose speed/power. Because my launching system was submerged in the water (again, I won't bore you with the details) I had to drive up against the bank while I spent the next 15+ minutes retreiving and re-connecting my launch/retrieval system. After that, it still had plenty of power to bring back to the front of the dock to where I could lift out of the water.

Good point on the battery weight. My boat already leans noticeably portside due to the weight of the battery. I guess itcould be offset on the starboard side, but that means adding more weight and drag.Thecurrent 7.2v batteryalso runs pretty darn hot after running. That being said, I would like to look at some options... know where I can locate a 7 cell hump pack or flat pack (also see picture of inside of boat, attached)?. Also, thedepth of the boatat the battery storage spot is approximately 1.5" from the base of the hull (inside the boat) up to the opening.

The flexshaft is already encased by two sheaths (appear to be nylon or plastic). When I say two, I mean there are two separate sheaths, not a sheath inside a sheath. I would think this would add protection against water contacting the shaft and help keep grease to stayon the shaft. Actually, the only areas that aren't encased by the sheaths are right at the connection into the coupler and at the connection to the prop. To reduce potential friction, I also greased the outside of these shafts. Though I agree this isn't the same situation I had with my oldbass boat trailer, it is somewhat similar to the prop shafton my old boat, which gotgreased maybe once per season. That was obviously submerged a lot, and you're just talkinggreasing an open shaft that the prop slips over. I guess what I'm getting at is, wouldhigher quality marine grease help to eliminate some of the constant greasing?

I'll check out the straight shaft mod, though it would be a lot easier if I could get a pre-cut piece of brass, not having anything to make a decent cut with.

RE: Couple of beginner questions
 

The boat leaning to the port side is OK as it's should only be like that when it's resting.  Once you apply power, the prop torque will offset it. You can definately fit a longer pack in there.  Keep in mind that you can run NiMH batteries to where their capacity is nearly exhausted, unlike a LiPo. 

Those plastic sheaths are teflon tubes.  Many who go away from them just use brass liners.  You want to keep the shorter, larger diameter teflon piece that surrounds the prop stub, unless you plan on making a brass liner the same size.

Using heavier grease, especially with a teflon tube is going to create alot of drag.  You can get a tubing cutter from wherever you get the brass tube from.  They're cheap, about 10-15 bucks:

http://www.acehardware.com/product/i...631238.1260857

RE: Couple of beginner questions
 

on a well setup flex drive system, greasing is not an issue.  You should only have to loosen the motor coupler on the flex drive side, slip the whole thing out the back, put some grease on it and slide it back in.  I do this in less then 5 minutes on my Genesis (upgraded flex drive with OSE parts)<div>
</div><div>If you are really looking for something great, find a grease fitting and grease pump, just fill it after each use. done! (I have not seen one of these yet, but they must exist)</div>

RE: Couple of beginner questions
 

In was trying to brainstorm something like that! Im poor so i use vaseline, vaseline packed into a shringe with a hook(kind the dentinst gives you when you get wisdoms pulled) and just stick the hook into your drive tube and squeeze

RE: Couple of beginner questions
 

Grease fitting won't work with a teflon liner..............grease fittings only work with brass (or liner-less)stuffing tubes. Please show me an example of someone using a grease fitting with a teflon liner flexshaft set up.

RE: Couple of beginner questions
 

It could be done if the teflon liner was pin holed with maybe a 1/32 or 1/64 drill bit but i still dont get why people use those things

RE: Couple of beginner questions
 

And if the teflon liner spins within the stuffing tube, as it normally does.....not by a whole lot, but enough to where that hole is no longer aligned with the hole in your stuffing tube.