rotccapt

hi all i have never played with boat really mostly airplanes but i aquired this boat for free so i had a though of trying to finish it. the boat is built out of primaraly 1/8th inch plywood and i would guess it to be about 36-40 inches long and about 20 inches wide i do not have a tape measue right now but it should be close. i have everything for the hull except one of the vertical fins i will have to build it.

i have no idea what size engine would be required for this boat or really anything about how to build one, but i have been scratchbuilding planes for several years so i dont think the build will be that much of a problem

here is a couple pics of it

advanced builder

You have a Dumas Miller America. 43" http://www.dumasproducts.com/

rotccapt

so i would have to agree with you that this is a dumas. so with that in mind do you think that this would be an ok first boat to build? also from what i gather this would need a .67 size glow motor would it be possible to put a gas engine in it? i realy dont like glow. i think i can buy the plans from dumas to finish it.

jayjay283

[link]http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/search.php?searchid=574105[/link] you may need to make an account there to see it

advanced builder

Yes and Yes The transom is suspect on Dumas hulls as they use a inexpensive ply. That sponson riding surface need to be removed or updated. Hydro's are not a every day hull, you need no wake or chop. A early morning hull or late in the evening. I have a set of prints for that hull and a hull like yours not done. The trouble with wood one mishap and your back in the workshop for months. What is it your looking for? Dumas is way behind the times as far as hulls go. more for display Let me show some pics of my Dumas Atlas Van Lines. She hasn't seen water in years. I fiberglass mine , Shes big and gets nicked around getting it in and out of a car or van. or garage. You will hear may who don't glass-em I only have one place to run her London Ont. We don't have a class for em in Elmira. Old school

rotccapt

since i got the boat for free i was wanting to get it finished and run it a bit i was planning on glassing it.

advanced builder

Sig resin works good with a lite 3/4 oz fiberglass cloth Sig is at your local hobby shop or west system .A credit card works well with the cloth /resin ,scrape off excess. resin 5 /16 brass pipe for a driveline tube. 1/4 "cable with a step-down to 3/8 for the prop end. .187 cable was all we had, years back 1/4 " cable are used now. Better hardware than Dumas is available.

rotccapt

i have done a lot of fiberglass work, i will be using "us composits" epoxy resin when i glass it i will also be using 2 layers of .5 ounce cloth becasue i already have it. so what do you think of a zenoah g26 for this boat?

Hydro Junkie

Okay guys, what's all this crap about having to glass a wood hydro? To put it to you plain and simple, A HYDROPLANE NEEDS TO BE BUILT LITE AND ADDING A LAYER OR TWO OF GLASS TO AN ALREADY HEAVY HULL THAT IS ALSO TAIL HEAVY BY DESIGN WILL RESULT IN A BOAT THAT IS HARDER TO REPAIR AND HARDER TO DIAL IN DUE TO THE EXTRA WEIGHT THAT WILL GIVE YOU NO REAL GAIN OTHER THAN BEING HEAVIER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've been involved with R/C Unlimiteds and Unlimiteds Northwest, two 1/8 scale clubs, for years and have seen few boats that have ever had more than the sponson edges coated with glass and those were only due to having the radiused Jones sponsons. The amount of weight added by applying a layer or two of .5 ounce fabric and the resin to fill the weave would be similar to adding an extra 4 to 6 ounce fuel tank full of water . As for installing a gas engine, it can be done BUT, to do so you will need to cut the boat in half to widen the engine bay and tunnel to get the engine to fit. Dumas uses engine bays that are less than 5" wide and all 'of the gas engines use mounts that are made to fit 5" engine rails. To use gas engines in scale hydroplanes, the guys that race them here in Western Washington enlarged the boats by 20% to increase stability, weight carrying and to just plain and simple make room so the engines will fit. Do yourself a favor and just finish the boat with a .67 for power. If you want to go gas, start with a set of plans and do it right to begin with rather than trying to force the issue with a kit boat that's not up to the task. As Advanced Builder already alluded to, the internal framing is made of a very cheap door skin and not a good quality plywood. Without lots of reinforcement of the inner frame, the boat won't handle the torque of the a gas engine. No offence to Advanced Builder but I've seen scales flip that were made from wood with no damage and glass hulls shatter from the same kind of accident so his comment about wood hulls not being able to take a hit is far from true in both my experience and opinion. He is right about hardware, look at Aeromarine, Octura, Accutech and Speedmaster for your hardware

rotccapt

i understand your thoughs on this project. but i would like to shead a little light on this. i already have the zenoah g26 from a previouse project so i would not have to buy the engine just mod it for marine use. also i cant find a new .67 marine engine except on e-bay or other modelers. since this is not going to be a racing or competition boat, scale detail is not as big of a concern. i would like to get the boat runable without braking the bank. also from what i can tell alot of the wood has been replaced in this kit i know the bottom of the boat is aircraft ply, also alot of the sturcture has been upgraded.

on the topic of glass. if done right fiberglass will not add an extra 4-6 ounces. .5 ouce cloth weighes in at .5 ounces per sq yard and would require .5 ounces of resin to wet out. the resin is just there to bond the glass to the wood. then you use lightweight filler to fill the weave of the cloth and .5 ounce cloth does not require much to fill. now if you go to home depot and buy fiberglass resin and the cloth they have there you will add a ton of weight and not get the strength in return. polyester resin is thick and heavy and most cloth from homedepot is 6-9 ounce cloth that requires a ton of filler to fill.

sorry to but some people bubbles but i am not a hardcore boat racer i just want a boat that i can take out to the lake and race around a bit and since i got the boat for free i just want to get it running.

advanced builder

HJ the guy didn't build the hull so the quality of the builder,comes to play. Somehow I knew He would post . Do what you like. weight does play a factor,in racing Going gas will shorten the life span of the hull. It was meant for a .67 . Buy a Easy Vee kit for $59.00 and add that Zenoha. http://www.zippkits.com/

advanced builder

HJ when your rigger/hydro runs like this come talk http://youtu.be/-O4bwYhs1CA
Yes a dirty lens Yes lighter is faster. my gas rigger which is at Zippkit.com http://youtu.be/cRUlK43kFgs
You will see a real race this weekend, as the race season starts. With Vids

Hydro Junkie

Nothing worse, IMHO, than someone talking about one style boat then tooting their own horn by showing a totally different size and style of boat in a video. Show me that with a full hull sport 40 or scale hydro and then talk.

advanced builder

Ha -Yes a real hydro man. I do have a built Atlas Vanline. I can only run her in London Ont. I'd cry like a baby if I damaged her. All my work GONE.
PS We just don't see that many in our neck of the woods. If your dead set on a hydro then built this one and WIN
http://zippkits.com/~zippkits/index....roducts_id=259

f16man

Riggers are a hydro with all the pretty parts cut out, yes they are fast and yes they are ugly,,,,,, One of my first boats was a dumas miller it was heavy, did not turn well but at 50 mph it was a great learning tool, finish it and run it with a nitro engine and you will most likley step up to a better hull later.

advanced builder

HJ YOU OLD FART http://www.modelgasboats.com/forum/5...n-hydro/#19612

Here is my old fart build

Hydro Junkie

That Atlas looks almost the same as my Executone but, unlike your Atlas, mine is being built from plans using birch plywood and has a glass cowl. I'll see about posting some pictures of my build tomorrow, as far as it's gotten anyway. One big difference between your boat and mine is that mine won't have the tuned pipe sticking through the back of the cowl

Hydro Junkie

I like this, because I didn't give rotccapt the answer he wanted, I'm an old fart at Modelgasboats. To quote him, "i tried this on another forum and got nothing but flak from the old farts saying it can't be done". He then goes on to ask about clutches, surface or subsurface drive and radio boxes. I guess that means he thinks he knows more than I do even though this is "admittedly" his first boat. So what's wrong with this picture?
For the record, rotccapt, I've been building and running hydroplanes since 1982 and learned from some of the legendary people in scale hydroplanes, Roger Newton, Don Mock and even Jerry Dunlap to name a few. I have watched the development of gas powered boats over the last 15 to 20 years. I even have a 57" gas powered hydroplane that was built to use a BH Hanson G230 with an Indy modification for a class of gas boats Roger Newton tried to start back in the early 1990s. The present class that has been started in the Pacific Northwest is built 20% larger than the scale boat you have for a couple of reasons:
1) room to hide the engine so it's not visible on the water
2) Stability as the smaller 1/8 scale boats tend to want to roll when equipped with a Zen or similar engine.
Considering that your boat, WHICH IS BUILT STOCK, has what amounts to 3/32" thick doorskin for framing as can be seen by the color of the interior frames. This being the case, it's not up to or designed to handle the high torque of a gas engine and, when it fails, I'll be the one sitting here saying "I told you so". That being said, I won't be offering you any help on this project either.

advanced builder

You try to help someone and when you don't give'em the right question , you get pooped on. Nasty looking hull anyways. Show us the before and after pics

Hydro Junkie

Tell me about it. This kind of reminds me of someone else that used to play people against each other to get the answers that person wanted to see. For some reason, that person hasn't been seen in the forum since 11/23/11[X(]