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RTR ONLY RACE

Old 08-29-2007, 07:35 PM
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RcBoatman59
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Default RTR ONLY RACE

Ok, my club ( Oklahoma Model Boat Association )has given me the ok to see if there is enough interest in having an RTR ONLY race next season.
This will be an event for RTR's only.
ALL RTR's
What we are proposing is 2 classes for each type of rtr, stock and modified.

Stock class is just that, box stock with prop changes allowed.

Modified class is basically anything goes with the same displacement / size engine that came in the boat from the factory.

The classes will be based on the most popular selling rtr boats, from electrics up to the big ProBoat hydros and Shockwaves.

Depending on how much interest there is in this will determine if it is a 1, 2, or 3 day event. If it is a 3 day event then it will have to be held on one of the 3 day weekends, Maybe over the July 4th weekend ?

We would also like to set up a second course for official SAW records for RTR's if someone has the proper equipment for that available for use.

If you have never been to our pond, we are located in Del City Oklahoma ( right smack in the center of the country ! ) It has plenty of room, close to hotels and places to eat, if you have RV's you can stay at the lake ( for "security" ! ) Also, we actually have good water to race on ! ( we sent all the turtles to Florida ! )

This could be the start of an annual Event, maybe RTR ONLY NATIONALS ?

So if you are interested in this let me know, the sooner we get some input on interest in it, the sooner we can get it planned...

Old 08-29-2007, 08:09 PM
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007clint
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Default RE: RTR ONLY RACE

Definitely Interested .... no not just 'interested' - I will be there! Great Idea!
Old 08-29-2007, 09:01 PM
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RcBoatman59
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Default RE: RTR ONLY RACE

Of course you will be there Clint !!!
You have to make sure that Sean and all the rest of the rtr people in Texas show up...
Old 08-29-2007, 09:08 PM
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wave waker
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Default RE: RTR ONLY RACE

how about an OPEN RTR CLASS, like using RTR hull with upgraded motor,,, miss vegas with .21 or proboat thundercat with .46 motor?, etc.
Old 08-29-2007, 09:13 PM
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Sean Bowf
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Default RE: RTR ONLY RACE

I am having my hair done that day...

As you know, I am in.

Of course I would like to know a little more about the "box stock" thing. If that really means box stock, I think most of our boats won't qualify as is (have swapped out turn fins, collets, etc). Not a big deal, will just need to know the firm rules far enough in advance to get the kids' boats back to "box stock".

Wave Waker, we had talked at one time about having three different levels of classes for RTR. Stock (pretty much out of the box), Mod (swap the engine to equal size), or unlimited (what you are talking about...what ever you can stick in there). I guess the question would be whether or not we can make class with the unlimiteds. I am really liking the RTR classes, so I would love to see it grow in any direction.

Sean
Old 08-29-2007, 09:19 PM
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Kelly Miller
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Default RE: RTR ONLY RACE

Jerry, I told Norm we needed to plan this early so you can get this put on your calendar. Grim?

Norm, you can bet myself and Sam will be there. Stock and Modified.


Kelly

Sam Miller Racing
Old 08-29-2007, 10:18 PM
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terry kelly
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Default RE: RTR ONLY RACE

i will most surly be there with my whole fleet. we have a strong contingent of rtr racers here in the area. i vote for the unlimited class as well. i have a great project i am working on for something like that.. i have 2 bone stock miss vegas's on the way and a couple of modded ones as well. we will be there just let me know a date and we will have fun. thanks alot guys
Old 08-29-2007, 11:08 PM
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RcBoatman59
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Default RE: RTR ONLY RACE

We can have an open class, sort of a anything goes as long as it started out as an rtr. But we will have to limit it to maybe hull size and type. We dont want to have a small hydro with a.21 having to run against say an 1/8 scale hydro with a 35cc gas engine ! ( ya never know, the little one may smoke the big one ! ) Im not sure about having an unlimited class for every boat tho, very time consuming come race day...
I am open to any and all suggestions ( accept from Sean ! )
Box stock will have to be discussed, there are some things that are needed upgrades on some of these rtr's that dont really help overall performance. As far as turn fins go, like on the Vegas boats, 1st gen Vegas should be allowed a 2nd gen. turn fin but no aftermarket such as Grim or TLR.
Im not sure on the other types of boats as to what things have been done to them.

Thats why we need to get this started now, so we can tweek a few things here and there.
Old 08-30-2007, 05:09 PM
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Kelly Miller
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Default RE: RTR ONLY RACE

Can we sharpen the turn fin or rudder? and do we allow the slotting of the strut? I am inclined to say yes to sharpen but no to the slot. If someone has cut a slot we perhaps suggest a minimum depth to match? kinda picky I know but "Box Stock" has appeal.

Kelly

I will tell ryan to order 20 boats so I can hand pick one.
Old 08-30-2007, 05:30 PM
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Sean Bowf
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Default RE: RTR ONLY RACE

ORIGINAL: Kelly Miller

Can we sharpen the turn fin or rudder? and do we allow the slotting of the strut? I am inclined to say yes to sharpen but no to the slot. If someone has cut a slot we perhaps suggest a minimum depth to match? kinda picky I know but "Box Stock" has appeal.

Kelly

I will tell ryan to order 20 boats so I can hand pick one.
I think a little of the appeal of stock RTR has been lost. The more mods folks allow, the more it would cost someone to keep up... What I am trying to say, is that I like the stock RTR class because it allows folks to be competetive by just buying the boat. If someone buys the boat, then shows up to race and finds out they need to buy a couple hundred dollars more in parts to be competetive, they might get disenchanted with the hobby.

That said...I think stock RTR should allow modification of stock parts (slotting struts, modifying the stock rudder, etc, etc) because these things cost no money, only time. I also think stock RTR should allow some modification of the cowl for better cooling (cutting out the two small fake inlets at the front of the cowl to allow them to actually function) and allow the replacement of non-performance adding parts (collet, exhaust coupler, etc) for better dependability. I don't think the bottom of the hull should be allowed to be modified, short of sanding (no sheeting with plywood, or adding to the bottom)

Just my 2 cents.

Sean
Old 08-30-2007, 07:15 PM
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Default RE: RTR ONLY RACE

Gosh this discussion sounds familiar! Seems like many similar thoughts were expressed last fall. The end result was the rule sample that Kelly and I wrote up. They provided a good compromise of fixing little problems without enhancing the speed of the boat. Perhaps it's time to take another look at them?
Old 08-30-2007, 07:26 PM
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Kelly Miller
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Default RE: RTR ONLY RACE

I was throwing out a quick revisit of the disscusions we had last year Chuck, I still think the rules we wrote up will still be the ones to go with. Am hoping this will be a big event so would like to see this pinned and get some people to plan well in advance. So mark your calendar Chuck.

Jerry how is that calendar looking.

Kelly
Old 08-30-2007, 07:50 PM
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Default RE: RTR ONLY RACE


ORIGINAL: Kelly Miller

I was throwing out a quick revisit of the disscusions we had last year Chuck, I still think the rules we wrote up will still be the ones to go with. Am hoping this will be a big event so would like to see this pinned and get some people to plan well in advance. So mark your calendar Chuck.
I'll put it on my candidate list for next summer....

Hmmm, just looked at mapquest. It's close to 1200 miles, a bit over 18 hours of driving. Going to have to think about this one for a while...
Old 08-30-2007, 08:42 PM
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Default RE: RTR ONLY RACE

Dang, Id love to go also, but, lol yea i would have a 13/or 14 hour drive. Guys, if i rounded up some good plans for a RTR Race just like RCBoatman, would yall drive to Alabama. yea kinnda far.
Old 08-30-2007, 09:20 PM
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Sean Bowf
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Default RE: RTR ONLY RACE

Here is my fear with the box stock thing...there are a lot of folks that have been racing with rules that allow some modification of the boat (cutting out the rear of the fake turbine exhaust, slotting the strut, cutting out the 2 air inlets, running a non-OEM turn fin, sharpening/shortening the stock rudder, etc, etc). Will these people be willing to spend $20+ on a replacement rudder, $70 on a new cowl, either dig out or purchase and reinstall their stock turn fin, etc, etc. Or will they just not show up because of the hassel of going back to "box stock".

Just some food for thought.

I know if everyone started using "box stock" for their stock RTR class, folks would quit making these mods to their boats and eventually there would not be a problem.

On a side note...I really like the look of the boat with the wing on it... That is one good thing about the stock classes I have seen, is that they require the wing to remain on the boat.

Sean
Old 08-30-2007, 10:05 PM
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terry kelly
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Default RE: RTR ONLY RACE

i agree with sean , we should keep the wings on these things , i do not have a problem with doing this cause i kinda like the look of scale real looks. plus i just purchased 2 new vegas's for this deal "im kinda serious" i mean if i really want to run a boat without a wing then i will grab one of my other boats . i have been fighting the urge to never take the wings off my proboats i just think they look cool. i think maybe a deal like a handout prop such as a grim prop, coated with a color that can be easily policed , that takes prop technology out of the game. then limit the fuel to a certian percentage and maybe handout that as well. if you keep the rule bending and flexing you keep the people there and competitive as your driving skills allow. if the mods need to be run for the speed to see who is the fastest then use our normal boats that have been modded, ya know. just my 3 cents ...
Old 08-30-2007, 10:22 PM
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RcBoatman59
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Default RE: RTR ONLY RACE

Ok, the whole box stock vs whatever is kinda like beating a dead horse. We can follow the same guidelines we already have in place but they will have to be the same for all the different types of rtr's that run. The one big problem is going to be deciding which boats will fit into which classes. There is a lot of other rtr's out there that are not Miss vegas or the Proboat hydros. The whole point of having this event is to bring all the rtr people together, have a venue for them to actually race in, and the most important thing, to have a good time.
If we sit here and try to over-complicate the rules then it takes away the fun.
As far as location goes, Oklahoma is pretty much in the center of the country, some will have to travel farther to attend and some will not. If its held in Alabama or someplace towards the east coast then you will lose people that live on the west coast, if its in say Pheonix or someplace towards the west coast then we lose the people from the east. A central location, easy to get to, that can be reached in less than 24 hours by car, and that can accomodate a large amount of people is what we need. We already have that here. We have hotels, motels, food places, stores, etc. all within a few miles of the lake. We can probably arrange to get tents allowed if need be, RV's are already allowed during our races. ( there are no hook-ups tho )
Old 08-31-2007, 06:29 PM
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007clint
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Default RE: RTR ONLY RACE

I am not going to weigh in on the "Box Stock" much other than I like the fin required, no-cost or low-cost improvements like opening the turbine end and changing driveline couplers. I also agree with Sean about not wanting to spend money on a new cowling to close up the holes. Is it really going to be that close? It looks like to me that Stock class like all others get won by whoever can finish ALL the heats in the top three finishers!

Now, the one I am interested in (besides the MOD RTR, of course) - the ultimate or unlimited RTR! I have a Miss Vegas under construction with a 21 in it that has not even been in the water. That class would be exciting at the very least with more flips than a pancake breakfast!

Also what about having maybe three or four of these across the country (maybe 500-800 miles apart) with exactly the same rules and then a nationals in the middle of the country in November for the top points winners (maybe with a jacket and/or a traveling trophy)?
Old 09-01-2007, 05:21 AM
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RcBoatman59
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Default RE: RTR ONLY RACE

If we use the same guidelines already in place then nobody should have to spend money on replacing what they have already done.
Does anybody have suggestions as to what other classes we need to offer ?
Old 09-01-2007, 06:45 AM
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Default RE: RTR ONLY RACE

One suggestion is to offer stock and modified. To further divide the boats, you could state something like "Classes may be divided by manufacturer, model, propulsion type and sizes, average cost, or potential speed, if sufficient boats are entered." This way you open the door for an all Vegas race, an all SV27 nitro race, etc, but if there aren't enough of a specific boat, the person will still get to run. Also, consider running electric and gas RTRs, there are lots of them out there too.
Old 09-01-2007, 06:46 AM
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Default RE: RTR ONLY RACE

I am not trying to burst a bubble or anything but don't you already race at the local club races now, and if so why just a race for RTR class? If you have 30 boats show up wont the race day go rather quick? I am just trying to figure out how you would run 2 days of races with these boats , 10 heats 5 on day 1 and 5 the following day ? You know the classes and the format is up to you guys, I hope it works .


Paul

stock is stock
light mod is light mod
and more than that is a sport 20 class, in this case.
Old 09-01-2007, 09:37 AM
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Sean Bowf
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Default RE: RTR ONLY RACE

Paul, I think the vision is that this would be a huge RTR event.

.18 hydro stock
.18 hydro mod
.18 hydro unlimited (??)
Nitro SV27 stock
Nitro SV27 modified
EP SV27
TC31 stock
TC31 modified
TC31 unlimited
1/8th scale stock
1/8th scale modified
BJ26 stock
BJ26 modified
etc stock
etc modified

NOTE: I am not saying these are the classes offered, just making an example.

Sean
Old 09-01-2007, 10:32 AM
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Kelly Miller
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Default RE: RTR ONLY RACE

I cannot speak directly for Norm but I think the desire is to make it a "Special Event" for RTR that includes SAW and it would also be cool to include 2 lap oval time as well. I have seen a good amount of RTR interest and it will be fun to work with the event. A lot of the emphasis has been on the Miss Vegas and racing a "Stock Vegas" a " Mod Vegas" and a lot of people have looked outside the box of all things and come up with a "Unlimited Vegas". of course you could race a Vegas in sport 20 but I think what is being said is for a special event such as this some will be attracted to the idea of a "Insane Vegas" class.....how wild can you get. And I don't want to limit to just the Vegas...some are putting O.S. 46 engines in TC 31 hulls. Unlimited is more about the hull you start with rather than the "engine size".

Heck we have a guy here that has a electric Vegas that I have seen GPS over 50...(no kidding)

I would love to see heats of shock wave 55's Sv 27 electrics TC 31


They have the Tunnel Champs race....why not RTR Champs. I think it will be a very good time with everyone running similar hulls it should be very close racing.

I think the Stock and Mod rules we have been running will work just fine myself. I really did not mean to see this thread take an emphasise on rules.


Kelly

How cool would it be to see Jerry and Grim come down? I think that is the kind of event I would like to see happen.

Sam has some payback to give Jerry.
Old 09-01-2007, 11:28 AM
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RcBoatman59
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Default RE: RTR ONLY RACE

Thank you Kelly and Sean.
That is basically what we are trying to do.
We may be having 2 sanctioned IMPBA races open to the normall classes next season.
We are trying to have something else just for the RTR's, they are the future of this hobby, doesnt matter if you like em or not, they are here to stay and are moving in just like the gas boats did not to many years ago, and also the electrics...
I have been to about 15 or so races now and ours, Wichita's, and Chanutes have been the only ones we were welcome at.
The classes offered at these events are set up for the boats ( and sizes ) that have been around for years and there's nothing wrong with that, I love watching a Seducer hydro blast by at almost 70MPH ! But the bulk of thr RTR's dont fit into any of those classes.
So far, the only ones that really get to race at these events are the Vegas & Proboat hydros. What about all the rtr cats and mono,s ?
I have a Shockwave 36 and in order to race it I have to go up against th 45 monos or in the open offshore class. against boats that go a good 10 to 15 mph faster than mine, no fun there...

The classes you posted are a good place for us to start Sean, anyone that has some ideas please let me know. This is in the planning stages and nothing has been set in stone as far as rules, etc, go.
Old 09-02-2007, 07:23 PM
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Default RE: RTR ONLY RACE

Good Luck Guys hope it works for you.


Paul

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