Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

I was looking for some information on the size motor for a Mig 27 Carl Goldberg Drone of foam,
I received this giant foam mig for nothing, as someone was no longer able to fly, but he didn't have any information on it, no instructions, motor, landing gear, Etc.... I have heard it flys with a .90 but a 1.20 would be better, any other suggestions would be appreciated before I turn it into a snow storm:D

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

It was military issue with a K&B Sportster .65

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

Thats all that was on it!!! a .65 did they use it as a stationary target in the sky.. LOL Thanks for the info..

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

Local club member has one and flys it almost every day. He used a Super Tiger 90. He increased elevator surfaces and the aileron surface. It is in the hanger at the moment. Seems the nose area forward of wings is showing some stress fractures. This airlane flys all the conventional manuevers and knife edges well.

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

Excellent,, !!! Does the 90 tote her pretty fast??

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

Anyone have a manual. I also have a Mig 27 given to me but am a novice so I need the book. Jayree

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

I have about a dozen of these things in the attic. I was in an Air Defense unit in the Army for many years and when we were deactivated I saved as many foamies as I could from the dumpster. I may have a manual around somewhere, I'll look when I get a chance, but I don't think it will be of much help to a novice. We used to shoot at them with the M-42 Duster, a twin 40mm auto cannon mounted on a tracked vehicle. I have a Duster outside my office window, I'll take a shot of it tomorrow and post it.

They were lauched from a rail and had no landing gear, they landed in many pieces over the water and were unrecoverable. Devilish hard to hit, small and quick moving but we had plenty of ammo[>:]

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

Nice score !!! I have been debating on where to throw the nose wheel for a landing gear, the one I have has the back gear but I can't see where the guy had planned to put the nose wheel he has the lines all run in the thing, unless he mounted it with the engine Mount which is probably what I'm going to do, any advice on a Strong glue for the foam would be helpful as well, This is my first Foam plane, it was just given to me last year, would an OS 1.20AX be to much for this plane??

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

Waldo, on my last job we used to fly these for da military. I have the Goldberg version. We didn't have a manual or book and I have never seen one for it. Pretty much flew it w/ K.B. .61/.65; HB .61/.61 PDP engine. We used standard 5 min. epoxy for assy as we had to build purty quik if da gunners got lucky. I don't recommend anythang bigger than a .90 unless you do some serious strenghtenin'. on da wings; as it only has a piece of packin' tape runnin' spanwise. Also the nose area needs some reuppin'. These planes weren't designed to last that long and therefore quite expendable.You gonna have to be a little creative w/ da servos, L/G etc. I plan on mountin' mine using a standard nosegear from G/P or Sullivan. Also using standard alum. main gear. Naturully using plywood inlays for a mountin' surface. Also some of these guys lately have been using Gorilla Glue for foamies and fiberglass. Li'l goes a long way tho'.Anyway IMO youra gonna have to be creative, but try and keep da weight down if you want a good flyin' model. Also there was an article in MAN about using LOW-temp covering for your color selections.I plan on goin' this route when I get around to it. Sorry to many other projects ahead of it.Anyway just mods are in order as these planes weren't built that strong or to last long. Thanx,Rob

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

My version has an aluminum spar in the wing and down the length of the fuselage. In any case, I think a 1.20 would rip the thing to shreds, it is lowest bidder foam and designed to be destroyed on it's one and only flight. I had a flying version many years ago, I covered it in low temp iron on and used an OS .60, no landing gear, I cut the motor off in mid flight and belly landed on the grass. I got quite a bit of flying time off the thing before it landed hard on asphalt and imploded. The flying weight is minimal, so the .60 should do fine, nothing more than maybe .80 or near to it would be great. If you break it, 5 min epoxy and toothpicks will fix it up in no time.

BTW, the fuel tank mounts next to the cockpit on the right side and is rubber banded on. The radio gear fits in the pockets to the rear of the wing. It's certainly and unusual bird to see at the flying field.........

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

Thanks guys for all the advice, I have been flying R/C's for about 35 years or so now, so I'm no stranger to figuring out what needs to be done, but I always build my planes from Kits too, I just happened across a H9 Twist so that was my first ARF,, the Mig I have is Carl goldberg,, Its already painted and all servo rods are already in,, it has been flown a few times but the nose gear wasn't there and they didn't remember the motor they used on it, I'm going to be buying a 1.20ax for my US 1000 so I thought I could swap it back and forth with the foamy, Glad you guys told me that,,, I'll try for a .60 or something in that field now,,, well maybe it will be airborn quicker then I thought now as long as I don't have to save up $290.00 for the power source.

Thanks again I'll let you know how she goes

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

No Problem!!![sm=thumbs_up.gif]

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

Not sure where we got ours from, but we have one of these flying currently. It has the Tower Hobbies 2-Stroke .75 on it, pulls it around nicely. Modified to have tricycle gear, great plane. Easy to fly, and durable. Lots of fun.

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

I have one i want to electrifybut no idea on a motor. Any suggestions.

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

I am looking for one mig and or a wing for a Mig 27 target drone. I am here in northern californa and would like to get a hold of atleast one wing for one of these if not the entire kit.

Please drop me an email if you are interested in parthing with one and or have any leads on them.

Thanks in advance.

SD
imageabove(at) hotmail.com

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

Have two com-lete ones that have been flown and then disasembled.Make me an offer at [email protected] I HAVE ELECTRIFIED ONE WITH A PHASOR 45/3 AND IT FLIES WELL.

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

If you have any of these drones left, would you be interested in selling any?

Thanks for your time,
Larry C.
[email protected]

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

Hey Icor,

I don't know if Tangerine had any left for you but, I did a search when I first received this craft on just my regular browser for the Carl Goldberg R/C Mig 27 and another person had a page with 3 or 6 huge giant boxes of these things for around $35.00 a plane, It looked like he had around 50 to 100 of them, Maybe it was here on RC universe but I think I found it elsewhere, I don't have the time to browse right now, but I will, and If I can find the link again I'll post it here as well.

Good luck, I didn't have the time to get mine in the sky this past season, So I'm going to be maidening it this season. I still have to buy my power plant for it.

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

I think they used 12-5 Rev-Up props on some of those target drones. They were marked only at the hub. If I remember correctly, the military figured three missions per drone so that's how many props were ordered since they landed without landing gear.

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

Do you still have any of these migs left.If so would you sell any.? I got one for christmas from my son and I just finished it and its ready to fly.Waiting on the weather. I covered it with low heat iron on film and it turned out great.If anyone has any for sale let me know.

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

A WORD OF CAUTION--I e-mailed someone here on this Forum ( don't remember who it was) looking for someone who may have some of these migs for sale.A couple of days latter I got an e-mail from ( >[email protected]> ) and he said he had about 20 of these migs. After several e-mails back and fourth I agreed to buy 2 planes for $250.00 and that was to include shipping from Miami florida to Vancouver Washington.This took place about the middle of january and like a fool I trusted him and sent him the money and as of today I still have no planes.I have talked to him several times and keep getting one phoney story after another.I at this point don't even think he had any of these planes,and if he does I think he is just planning on keeping my money and ripping me off.I will get justice one way or the other.If you buy on-line don't do what I did,and be very cautious who you buy from.If I ever do get the planes I will update this--------------

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

I just completed my MIG 27 I received as a christmas present from my son.Htere is a picture of it on my profile page.Its not real fancy but I think it looks alright.I used low heat iron on film,and I put a .76 motor with a 13 inch prop.put tri-cycle landing gear on it.added a rudder and a different elevator.changed the ailerons from the old duct tape to hinge mounting.I also glued a reinforceing strip (1 1/2 inch ) down on the lower sides of the fuselage.Glued reinforceing plywood on the belly for mounting the landing gear.Also reinforced the nose area inside along the fuel tank area.I used high torque servo's and dual batterys for extra power and also for balance reasons.To me these are neat looking airplanes and I wish they were still being produced and avaible to the public for sale.After searching the web for other ones I'm going to be kind of reluctent to fly this one because I would hate to crash it.These my turn into a collectors item before long although there still seems to be a fair amount of them around.My son found this one hanging in a local hobby shop and bought it for me and I'm glad he did,I have had a lot of fun working on it.It probly will get flown when the weather improves.

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

Hey BigMig,

Bummer I hope justice is served,,, Good luck ojn the maiden , I hope,,,,,, WILL get mine in the air this season also. I can't wait to see this bird fly,, It looks like its going to be a blast.

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

Hey GOOD LUCK with yours also,snowing today but good flying weather is on the way.

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

yes we are suppose to get pounded with 8 more inches of snow with about an inch of Ice,,on top of the 22 inches we received 2 weeks ago thatstill hasn't disapated.

Hey can you post a pic of your front landing gear and where you mounted it?

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

I will try and put some pictures on here latter on tonight if I can figure out how to do it.I'm not a computer wizzzzz--------As you know there is a plywood tray inside where the motor mount rails are and also a plywood strip under that on the bottom.I just drilled a 3/16 hole to match the diameter of the front strut and there is a collar on the bottom and top to hold it in place.I had to cut out some of the foam on the bottom of the cock-pit piece for the stearing arm clearance.I'll take a few pictures latter and see if I can get them posted on here-----------

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

I just found this guy who ripped me of here on one of the forums ( he is a member of RC UNIVERSE ) If you look up
( re; PROPJET, MIG 27 TARGET Drone---6/10/24 ) there he is telling people he has these planes for sale.I would like to know if anyone else tried to buy any of these from him,and if they did >? did you actually get one from him. His rc user name is ( reel4/4 ) I looked up his profile and he had made about 4 posts and it appears he may belong to a flying club there in Miami Florida.I would love to find someone who has personel knowledge of this guy --------his name is----------------( zane jones --Miami florida )

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

Hey Bigmig Thanks,, there is no wood tray in my engine area just 2 aluminum bars going back into the foam,, and the rear wheels are all set and mounted,,, I'm just wondering where to drill into the bottom for the nose wheel.

I hope you can find out who may know him,, I'll poke around in some of my other threads also.

To upload a pic here,,, all you do is,,, when you hit reply to post a thread,,, hit the click here to upload images and files on the bottom of your reply box, then click on browse and find your pic on where ever you store it on your computer, you'll see what to do from there.

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

Mabe your's is a newer version mig than mine,or someone has altered it from the original?mine has a 3/8 in. flat piece of plywood inside with the cut-out for the engine.It was inlaid like the piece on the bottom.It made an ideal way,and place to drill and mount the strut.It sets about 5 inches back,from the back of the motor.If I didn't have everything glued and covered I would open it up and take a picture to show you the installation.This may be one thing i regret latter on if I have problems with the fuel tank or steering arem,there is no easy way to access them.It will take a little carefull cutting and some time to get back in there

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

I was wondering if you was involved with these drones in the military.I have seen several post on here from guys that had been using,or shooting at these drones.

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

No,, a friend of mine just showed up at my office and asked me if I wanted it, knowing I was into the R/C thing,, he said His father didn't really fly anymore and was looking to make some room, I of course accepted the free Huge flying beer cooler.:D

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

and No don't cut back in there just to take a pic,, I have been flying and building for over 35 years now,, I'm sure I'll figure it out, I was just looking for some different ideas....

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

THIS IS AN UPDATE ON ( A WORD OF CAUTION--post date 2-28-2007-----on <[email protected]> )
I thought this guy had ripped me off for sure,but I just got a e-mail yesterday with a ups tracking number and he finally did apperently ship my 2 migs.He got a money order from me on Jan.-19 and just now shipped the planes on 3-2-07.I guess we realy didn't talk about how fast he was going to ship them,but I didn't assume it would take a month an a half.He also said I owe him another $73,00 more than we had agreed to because he thought he was shipping by grayhound and he shipped by ups instead.I am an honest guy and I don't like being charged more than we had agreed to,but I will make it right with him.
The original deal I made was $250.00 for 2 migs including shipping.-----------I since have found a guy who has a large supply of these ---bare planes or the whole deal with motors,props,old type servos,and controls.the problem with these is the shipping.I will post this guys number and e-mail address it it is not against the RC UNIVERSE policy.I want to do some deals with this guy first before I post this information.I will post his information by 3-9-07 for all to use----Thanks
BIGMIG

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

Glad to hear you received the Migs, Are they the same type as we have already?? the foam Carl Goldberg drones, I also ran into someone here selling them for $30.00 a mig, no engine though. he had crates of them,,, I haven't found it again since that one day.

Anyway its good to hear, thats a bummer about him wanting more money though, people need to find out that kind of thing before they make the deal or they should eat the expense,, it only hurts their name,, or at least say they weren't sure what shipping was going to be and he would get back to you...

Anyway,,,,,, happy mig flights

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

Well they are on there way I don't have them yet.That may be the same guy I got hold of.He says he has many crates of them.I'm waiting to post his name because I want to do some possible deals with him before I post the source.

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

Larry
Where is reel 4x4 advertising his drones?
Bill

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

He was not currently advertising them for sale.But he did post his e-mail address stateing he had them for sale on some of the back posts here in this catagory.That is how I found him.Refer to=(RE:Propjet,mig 27 target drone dated 6/10/2004 and i think page # 3 ) If you read some of the above post it will explain a lot of what took place.They are on the way to me now.I will know friday when they are suppose to arrive.I will up-date. Larry

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

The FQM117-B Story

I’ve noticed some new posts on some of the threads discussing the FQM117-B or Mig-27 target drones lately. Apparently there are some of the original RS Systems and more recently the Carl Goldberg Models targets available for sale on Ebay as well as other places. In the interest of preserving some of the history of these unique model airplanes (at least four of the major players are now gone) I present this account of the development and production of the first of what the Army designated as FQM-117-B or the RS Mig. What follows is a short history of the first RS MIG-27 airplane No.1 (pictures attached) of which there was only 1 prototype built and over a period of a few days in the Spring of 1983 evolved into what became the FQM-117-B of which RS produced approximately 45K copies between 1983 and 1986.

In the early 80’s RS Systems was the main provider of small expendable aerial targets used for air defense training to the U.S. Army and Marine Corps. The target of choice was a .61 powered flying wing ironically designated as the FQM-117-A (Stealth Fighter) do a Google for more details. The Army was interested in procuring a new target that was more realistic, hence the FQM-117-B was born.

Like anything built to an Army spec everything is a compromise. The basic contract requirements were; had to be 1/9th scale, had to be assembled in the field in 10 minutes or less, hand launched and had to be able to carry a 5 pound payload. Of course there were many other specifications for the radio and field support equipment but that’s another story.

The first and only prototype was built (by myself, Jeff Hickam and Kirk Wicker) nearly to scale with the biggest change being about a 40% increase in wing area (try hand launching an 8 lb .61 powered model with an extra 5 lb dead weight on it sometime). Much later in the program we did some testing to see exactly how much extra weight the airplane could carry and still be hand launch; if memory serves me it was an all up weight of about 18 lbs, what fun! Airplane no.1 also had a flying stab which used a couple of K&B .61 crank bearings (big end) for a pivot and a single servo for actuation.

The all flying stab (pivot was at 40% of root chord) looked cool but it had terrible low speed performance so we went to a conventional stab/elevator arrangement after the first couple of flights. This change later caused some very strange flight characteristics that Steve Stricker and I eventually solved after many wing location and stab incidence changes hence the very crooked wing shown in the head-on picture.

The C.G. of the airframe is near perfect when about ½ a tank of fuel is left. With a full tank the airplane is nose heavy and with an empty tank it is tail heavy. Like I said, it was a compromise. For the RS Mig the C.G. is just about right when it is located at the front edge of the R.S. name plate molded into the bottom of the fuselage.

Some Factoids:
Proto 1 Design&Construction - Me, Steve Stricker, Jeff Hickam, Kirk Wicker (from when I made the drawing to first test flight I believe was about 4 days)

Proto 1 Weight – About 6 ½ lbs (almost no wood was used, it was all hot wired 1 lb EPS)

First Flight Test – Me launching, Kirk Wicker flying. (I think it was on the second flight that the nose broke off the first time, we new we had some trouble) The fix for this problem was to put 3 foot long aluminium 1/8"x1/2" beams in the fuselage. During qualification testing the engine mount area kept bending, the Gov. wasn't happy. Bob McDaniels (sadly gone) of McDaniel's RC came up with the solution. We replaced the flat aluminium with L-beams. What fun, we took 8 or 10 of the hand made Migs we had left and cut them in half on a giant bandsaw and glued the new L-beams in place. No more bent noses. The top beam also provided a handy place to drill and tap holes for mounting the wing.

Subsequent Flight Tests – Steve Stricker and “Bic” Green with me launching and repairing/modifying. Originally when we went to the fixed stab/elevator the airplane went from flying great to practically unflyable. At any speed, when put into a dive the airplane would tuck or diverge into an ever increasing death dive. Uncorrected it would crash itself in a matter of seconds. We eventually fixed the problem by adding about 4 degrees of negative (TE up) incidence in the stab.

No. Article 1’s Built – I think it was 15, these were the hand made examples that we took to contract qualification at the Redstone Arsenal in Huntsville AL. Steve Stricker an I flew hundreds of flights over a 30 day period during the summer of 1983. The most difficult of which was carrying a 5 lb payload. The same airframe had to be launched and recovered without repair 20 times. They made us land on a very rough gravel road. The average temp was always over 90 and most days the humidity was near 100%. The Redstone Arsenal is the location of the early space program and is basiclly built on a swamp. The first thing they said to us when we started test flying there was "don't wander into the woods" because 3 of the 4 most poisonous snakes in North America inhabit the area.

Wood Patterns for Molding – Ed Mitchell R.I.P., One of the most skilled modelers I’ve ever known carved the solid Mahogany plugs for the mold. I laminated the blanks and did the rough carving of the wing. Ed did all the really hard parts (fuselage with all the coarouts being the hardest). Ed was a middle school shop teacher. During his summer break he spent 6 weeks carving the plugs. (Anybody know where these are? A true work of art.)

Army Cost – A box of 3 airframes, 1- engine, hardware, glue, receiver with 3 servos was about $600.00 dollars. What a bargain!

Overall Contract Cost – Approx. $6M. We were making about $6/hr at the time. What can I say we were young and stupid.

Total # Made – Approx 45k for the Army contract, another 5K to the Navy/Marines and 5K for the commercial hobby market.

Molded By – Tuscarora Plastics, Herndon VA.- Was the biggest most complex EPS mold they had made up to that time. When we first approached them the response was, “you want to do what!”. The use of multiple colored EPS beads, insertion of aluminum spars, plastics ailerons and Mylar hinges was way beyond anything they had ever done before.

Mold Cook Time – Took about 3 ½-4 minutes to fuse the EPS beads together. When they came out of the mold the airframes weighed about 10 lbs which included 4 lbs of water.

Most Number of Flights – has to go to Art Pesch – he flew for RS and Goldberg.

Heaviest Ever Flown - ??? AAI Corp. Ron Stahl, Myer Gutman, Steve Stricker – was used as a intermediate trainer for the Navy/Pioneer UAV program. We use to put about a gallon of fuel in tanks under the wing. Average weight had to be over 20 lbs with trike landing gear and extra radio equipment.

Most Flights on Single Airframe - ??? Got to be in the thousands someplace.

Longest Flight – My personal best is a little over an hour on 16 oz of fuel.

Coolest Mig Ever – Goes to Robert Hayes and Richard Peters (Both RS employees in the late 80’s) – it was two Migs joined together like a F-82. Powered by twin SuperTiger 1.4? cu.in. two-stroke. It was “AWSOME”.

Altitude Record – has to be Migs flown at 29 Palms CA, 5000 ft ASL.

Shortest Flight – To many to count. A good gunner on a towed Vulcan can vaporize one of these in seconds.

Most Bullet Holes Ever – One Mig that came back from a shoot at Camp LeJeune NC, I counted 32 separate hits. We took wooden dowels and stuck them through the holes. Alas the photos have vanished. Mostly 5.62mm M-16 rounds, but there were some .50 cal hits too. It was still flyable.[/size]

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

Cool story! Thanks for posting it..

RE: Mig 27 Foam Drone,, Carl Goldberg
 

I agree,, thanks,, that was fun to read