I just thought this should have its own Topic for others who may have the same view. I have not been a member here long but have enjoyed reading the posts. Do I owe RCU something for this...maybe...do I need to pay a subscription to RCU? No. If this site needed $$$ they should have pushed donations, instead of trying to grab my pocket book with force(used lightly). Now I understand you are only charging Sellers $$$, but the whole reason why I chose to be an RCU member was because of great members and no hassels of people wanting / advertising dues. If I want to be charged for selling I will go to Ebay! Not flaming RCU, but just wondering why you made the decisions you have...

Am I alone in my beliefs? I also understand if I don't like it I can leave...I respect that if that's what you say.


Respectfuly,

Chris Patterson, AA8VL
[email protected]
www.aa8vl.com

If you enjoy the forums at RCU nothing has changed for you. If you want to buy something at RCU nothing has changed for you. If you enjoy the magazine, nothing has changed for you. If you enjoy the product guide nothing has changed for you. If you want to sell in the classifieds a $20 'donation' will let you sell all you want for a year and offer you more as a 'donating' member. If you want to sell at another auction site that is your right to pay twice as much to do so. If you choose to support another place with your hard earned money instead of a place built by r/c'ers for r/c'ers that is your right. We do hope you'll continue to enjoy RCU as you always have however.

It's bluring the lines - there is a whole lot of difference between AUCTION and SELLING (esp the <$30 bargin bin). I don't know of ANY other R/C site that charges twice as much to SELL something - in fact I'm not sure if any of them even charge anything to put up a classifieds - Auctions, that's a whole other ball game, and there's eBay, etc. if you want to make more $$ in general.

fwiw, there's always the point being brought up " how can you not support a site you you make money off selling your stuff?" I belive for the majority of us (at least for me, and all my previous FS items here), as a SELLER, I've always "lost" money on a sale rather than make money (paid retails on item, many were still NIB), in fact, it's the BUYER that "makes" money by not paying a higher price. Maybe one should "donate" $20 to have the privilage to buy/bid on items eg, look at commercially, you have to pay a fee to enter an auction to bid; to take advantage of Tower Hobby sales, you have pay a membership fee to get the good deals.

The only people I guess making money are commercial posters, and those that go out to estate sale/swap meets and turn around selling over at the classifieds?

A suggestion, bring back a limited free FS section, or at least a bargin forum - heck, how about just a xtal exchange forum like before?!?

Maybe I am just a Whinner, but RCU has changed for me. Every page I look at solicits me to upgrade my account which will cost me money. You have done away with the gallery unless you pay $20.00 a year. These items are just the tip of the iceburg. Even at $20.00 that is way more than most people can spare for just being a member of a forum. A $5.00 donation is more like it. Even the amount of bandwidth one uses in a year comes to pennies compared to the amount borught in by vender advertising. As far as charging to sell items...if you think that it will be profitable for you...might as well. It may be more profitable to bill users per minute of log-on time. That's an idea!


I hope the changes RCU imposes works out for the benifit of the hobby. Thats why we are all into RC...to have fun, right?

Unless RCU changes for the benefit of the hobby and puts politics and greed aside...I must withdrawl my membership.


Regards,
Chris Patterson, AA8VL

I've got to agree to a point. RCU certainly has the right to make some money from all the work that they do to support the site for the majority of users (who for the most part are freeloaders, myself included). They used to solicit donations through paypal, but I've found that quite a few people, for some unknown reason, think paypal is going to steal all their money, so they don't have accounts and that idea didn't work too well. So that leaves them with advertisers, of which it appears they have many, and users, of which they also have many...

Problem is, most users used RCU mainly because it was free and they weren't selling stuff for profit. Most of us RC people buy stuff and either don't use it or quit using it, so it has to go to someone else at a bargain price to fund the next project. Well, if that is your interest in RCU (as it was for me), then you would have no choices except to spend your "hobby money" for the right to place ads (spending the same as somebody selling stuff for profit), or be forced to go to some other site to sell...

My thought is, that another option would be, to allow one, or at most two free ads to be placed each month per user. This way, the occasional seller will hang around, seeing the commerical ads and reading classifieds and the guy selling the estate sales and hobby shop overstock items, that are posting many items a month, will carry the majority of the cost. This would be enough to keep all but the most whiney user (again, myself included) happy and visiting often and RCU still gets paid...

Phupman is correct, why bother the occasional For Sale guy. The auctions and venders should be the ones that incurr the fee. A couple free listings per month would calm the members. Having to provide a credit card number every time we sell an item is too much of a hassel and most of us will go to Ebay before here. Why Ebay...because they offer $200.00 in insurance protection to the buyer. RCU currently offers $0.00. Their is so much more FRAUD protection on Ebay than here...and I don't believe RCU is ready for the potential liability faced with charging people to have auctions...and buyers getting scammed. These are just a few items you need to look into. It was said somewhere else on this forum...RCU has went too far this time.


-Chris

Really? I would have loved for you to spend one day with me at my computer on what was RCU as I fought many fights to resolve transactions gone bad. Dozens and dozens of people receiving as much personal attention and resolution as I could give them until it was done. Think that will change? The tools I have now under the new system to help someone are much better for getting issues resolved faster and with a higher percentage.

since RCU started I received under 100 donations totalling less than $3,000 altogether. This is equal to 45 days of hosting fees. Regardless of this if ebay has the right to charge for auctions what LOGIC dictates that RCU does not have the right to do so? I simply don't understand this logic. RCU was never designated as an official charitable company by the IRS. If I applied for charitable status I don't see how we could get them to approve it.

If we cannot get a charitable status from the IRS then we must run this as a busines just like ebay does. Servers, content, manpower cost money. Donations don't cover it. Advertising alone does not cover it. RCU is free for everyone except sellers and at 1/2 the price of ebay we are the best deal in town or you can spend 50 cents for those under $30 ads or post as many as you want for a $20 fee.

When you buy motor mount screws they cost over a buck.

If RC businesses have no right to charge shouldn't hobby stores give their stuff away for free or at least for cost? They wouldn't be around long since the rent and utilities would overtake them or they would starve feeding their family.

I'm sure some will understand this logic while others have their own way of seeing things. Enjoy RCU for what it is and what it will become. Signups have been at record levels since the transition so to those who didn't get set in their ways on the old site this redesign is well received. Try spending a week on it until we get the bugs out and you learn your way around before you pass judgement guys.

thank you for your continued support and understanding.

Well Said MARC! I have no problem buying a R/C mag sub for 60.00 a year, why would I have a problem paying for more tham what a mag could offer?

Exactly, except in this magazine you ask questions and they will get answered! Worth every penny.

I understand that RCU should not be totally free, and it has to cost to run the site.
I don't see how all the advertising from major manufacturers does not cover the cost of running the site. Just about every company in the industry advertises on RCU. Many of these companies see major benefits from their advertisements on RCU.
I am by no means an expert on running an RCU site, so maybe I'm all wrong. I'm not trying to show a lack of support for you guys, but I will say one thing, from the heart.

I previously looked forward to getting on RCU every day when I came home from work.
Now, with all the changes, it will never be the same, and I will miss the old site for as long as it's gone.
No offense meant to anyone here fellas, just an honest opinion.

Oh, it will be the same, and even better. Youll just have to get used to it. Give it a week, youll love it! Not all that different..

Perception and Reality are not the same.

When you ask people to hang in there because it is the same...and it will get even better...remember that you are speaking from "your perception" and not the other persons outlook. While it can be helpful for moderators or others who work here on RCU in some capacity to try and calrify what is now...and what was then...it does not mean that all will accept the "perception" that it's business as usual...like it was before the changes.

Members react to differnces because there are differences....this is reality....not perception. The reality for members who are voicing their opinion that they enjoyed the format of RCU before the changes implies that they are seeing the changes...and for one reason or another...they don't like them. This is my reality....I see the changes and I see a very different RCU than before. I think for most members of RCU it will boil down to how much tolerance they have and are willing to honor the changes. I am still waiting to see how it all plays out....but at the present...my reality is showing me a more difficult environment to enjoy.

Just my thoughts.

CMO

I do understand the fees for advertising and placing an ad,the local newspaper charges to place an ad so why not.But! most have an under 50 dollars free section.also I have to agree with everyone else about keeping the commercial guys seperate from the individual seller these guys selling that toy store junk is really a pain and does make it unpleasant to look at the ads it reminds me of E-Bay.It really does make getting that killer deal less and less a reality.and I have got some really good deals on the old site and have never been burned.I hope things work out with this site,I really enjoy visiting it every eve allways looking for the deal of the century.[sm=greedy.gif]

I have always believed that change for the sake of change is not good. For many years, I was probably more resistant to change than most people. There was security in the old ways of doing things. In the past few years, my attitude has changed drastically out of necessity. At about age 50, I was going to have to give in to change to be able to compete with the young guys that were joining the ranks that I was in. Maybe part of the reason is simply because I have seen so much change in my 40+ years in the job market.

Now, I see change as a challenge. Every obstacle becomes a challenge. This change to RCU has become a challenge. I accept it with the hopes that we will see a new and better RCU. I look back at the problems that I saw with the original RCU and I see many of them are now gone. Sure, there are a whole new set of problems but having been an mechanical engineer then a software engineer, I know the problems that can occur with a release of this magnitude. I accept it and go on. Seeing that a guy my age can to adapt so quickly to this new environment should mean that it would be relatively simple for the young people who grew up with computers and gaming systems.

I don't think anyone here was more relunctant to the changes in RCU than I have been but I have seen the change take place and I like it, even with the current problems. I have already had a taste of the capabilities that lie in the future and I look forward to these changes with anticipation but with patience. Sure, there are things that I don't like and when the dust settles, I am going to make a list of these things and pass them on to the administrators. I have made my living as a designer of hardware and software for the biggest part of my life and I will offer suggestions where I think the design is flawed. If the suggestions are rejected, it will not make any difference to me. I will still get my regular paycheck (from my day job, of course ) and I will still sleep at night.

All this is to say, the changes that are going on are not bad just because we were comfortable with the old RCU like we are in an old warm blanket. A new blanket may be warmer than the old one if we just take time to wrap up in it. Be patient. Let Marc, Michael, and the others following through with their concept then we can see how we like it. I was looking for a place to share in hobby discussions when I came here. If I don't like what I see, I know I can find another one. But, I want to see how this plays out first.

RCadmin,

Here are my suggestions.

-Keep the gallery free...it was free before??????????
-Make a separate swap forum free like before. (auctioners can pay their own) It is not a bad idea to charge the members wishing to use the auction service.
-Get rid of the member status fees...those are truly a joke with all the spam on this site soliciting it IMHO. Make your money off the users / dealers who wish to use your auction service, donations, and the venders who post their ads.

Just my .02 cents...as I have received over a dozen emails from other users who will remain nameless that feel RCU has turned for the worse.

Now the redesigned site looks great...don't know how much it cost you to program it...I am sure it is why you are soliciting for all the money. But if it cost so much to produce and you excessivly charge your members for use and they stop comming here...I ask: What have you accomplished?

You are essentialy taxing like Uncle Sam. I believe the members here would like a tax break.

OK, you say why can Ebay and Newspapers charge and why can't you? I think you can figure that out for yourself.




In this quote you say that if you were at a charitable status you could save money...but reading this correctly...you have never even sent a application in.



What about the dealer advertising?



Are you really giving anything away...you are already making money because of us members. Venders / dealers have always been all over this site. Without us their would be no RCU.


You might ask yourself why do I make such a fuss about this sites new organization. It is because I actually care about it and would hate for it to turn into a blight in cyberspace. I personnaly believe if this site continues on this track it will slowly fade away.

The new RCU is now making its first impressions to thousands of users...your decision will ultimately decide its fate. I just hope it is in the hobbies best interest.


Respectfuly,
Chris Patterson, AA8VL
[email protected]
www.aa8vl.com

I would love to know the revenue from the dealer advertising that RCU brings in already. I hardly see the need to charge the users. Imagine that all the users paid $20. Average 50K users X $20 = Hmm..... 1 million dollars. Add to this the advertising revenue and Hmmmmm again!!

Amen brothers! Tiger and A8 took the words right out of my mouth.

It can be summed up, in one word.

"Greed"

Have you ever asked the publisher of Model Airplane News, R/C Modeler, or any of the other magazines how much they make off their advertisers? Imagine that all the subscribers paid $25. Average 200K subscribers X $25 = Hmm..... 5 million dollars. Add to this the advertising revenue and Hmmmmm again!! Add to this the book sales revenue and Hmmmmm again!! Add to this the plan sales revenue and Hmmmmm again!!

Aman brother i feel the same way,it has an E-bay look to it, and thats why i dont use E-bay. TomBob[:'(]

Greed?

Do you have a job? Well for the owners of this site this is their job.

Really? And how much do they pay you?

He doesnt own the site. None of us mods get a paycheck in the mail.

Sure...but I do apologize. My 5 year old son does need to eat, have clothing and hopefully go to college one day. Since I spend 6 to 7 days a week on RCU and 12-18 hours every day on it for almost 2 years now I guess I"m not entitled to making a living on it? Please tell me how much I can make and I'll let you guys put a salary cap on my wages and the rest I'll distribute to the members as dividends. I don't want to make too much for working night and day to make RCU a great place for modelers.

As for the structure here. As an owner I am charged with having the vision to ensure RCU can scale to 200,000 users which it is heading towards. Forum format will not work in a selling medium as you cannot find what you want at this level of volume. Abandon RCU and another site will have the same fate if they grow to 50,000 users. Then you can pay them unless they don't mind working for free.