i feel that i am ready after 1yr of flying my trex 450 that i start with some basic 3d flying. i think some loops and rolls and a little inverted thrown in! i have a dx7 and ar7000 but im really confused as to how to set up the options for this 3d flying please help me it would really be appreaciated as i want to go fly.

can you give us the details of your current setup?

on a 450 you need at least 3000rpm headspeed, good cyclic servos, carbon fiber main blades. you might want to remove the flybar weights for increased sensitivity. you'll want a responsive head for 3D.


edit: if you're thinking about flying 3D with the equipment listed on your signature.... Then I recommend you upgrade the cyclic servos, tail servo....I'm not sure about the JR490T but I would swap that out also.

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Gyro will be fine, leave it be.
Chances are the tail servo will be fine also.

Which ESKY motor? and what pinion?

For sure change out the cyclic servo's, they stand a good chance in stripping if your not careful with your collective management.

the hs81 is way too slow.  a digital servo will hold much better.  been there done that. </p>

According to the specs 0.09 @ 6V with more than enough torque, never used one though so can't comment further.

For the OP, when you can outfly the servo change it.

hs81 works fine. I started with that servo, and still using it on my hk450, with gy240. I can do the same 3d moves that I do with my trex, using 401gyro and jr 290g tail servo. Also, 3000 rpm is not required to start learning basic aerobatics with 450, like flips and rolls. you can do that with around 2800 rpm, then slowly try to increase your headspeed as you gain skills and confidence. In which case, you can also use align wood blades, nail down basic inverted flight with it. but hobbycity cf blades are way cheaper now than align wood blades, so thats a great option. hope this helps.

Ok, you have received many responses but I don;t believe you have seen the actual information you are looking for.... Here is my swing at it.

Disconnect the motor for all these adjustments...

1. If you have not done so, program your pitch curve to be at 0 (zero) degrees at mid stick. From there make sure you are in idle up and measure 10 degrees at the top and at the bottom of the stick travel. You could get more than 10 degrees up or down, but you might not use it all for now. You might want to keep the same pitch curve for all flight modes or have a more "gentle" one for take-offs and a more aggressive one for flying. Either way, ALL pitch curves will meet at 0 (zero) degrees at mid stick. That will prevent the heli from jumping when you swithc from one flight mode to the next.

2. If you have not done so, program a "V" shaped throttle curve on your idle-up throttle curve. Some people prefer a "v" shaped with the bottom of the "V" at about 60 to 70%. The two ends will be at 100%. If you program exponential the "V" will turn into a "U" and that is not a bad thing either. I just prefer the "V". Some people prefer to program a straight line throttle curve at 100% for the idle up. I caution to only do this if you have good quality carbon blades and the governor feature turned on at the ESC. And you know the actual rpm of the helicopter.

3. I fly my little TRex 450 at 2200 to 2400 rpm. The main reason is that my batteries and motor are not up to snuff with a higher rpm. But depending on your flying style and goals, you do not need 3000 rpm either. I can do a lot of stuff with just 2400 rpm. Since you are starting, it is up to you on selecting an rpm setting.

From there, take the advise provided above about the flybar weights, Check that you have appropriate cyclic deflection and just go fly.

Hope this helped.

Rafael

THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR THE HELP! Ok so far ive heard alot of diffrent things...my setup is the one listed below i would really like to keep the gyro it has worked well so far the tail servo also holds ok. the motor is the standard esky one that sells with the belt cp is what ive heard the motor gear is 10t so is this ok???? the 3 cyclic servos are the sg90 tower pro ones. do i really need to change them out all i want to do is flips and loops then if i get good ill get better servos is this ok?? will the tower pro servos do flips and rolls?? cant i do 3d with wooden blades really dont want to break expensive carbon fibre blades they are so expensive in south africa let me tell you!!! so really what im asking is can i do basic 3d with my current setup?? oh by the way i have this really bad fear that i will try a loop and pull back on the elavator stick and the heli will get stuck upside down and go in to the ground to do a loop must i first get alot of forward speed then pull back as hard as i can on the elvator?? another thing im confused about is what exactly are flybar weights because im looking at my heli right now and i have noooooo idea what to touch or remove??? im really sorry that im such a noob!

Don't do a loop by just going fast and yanking back on the stick. Work up to it slowly by doing stall turns first: Get some forward speed and then use throttle to start climbing. As you're climbing, pull back on the elevator to bring the nose up. As the nose comes up, smoothly come off the throttle. As the heli comes to a stop at the peak, piro 180* and fly back down in the opposite direction. In the beginning, you can do this just bringing the nose up about 45* at the peak and slowly work you're way up to being fully vertical at the peak. Being vertical the first few times will feel a little scary as you're helicopter has no lift at this point and is basically just falling until you start to level it out again. But after a while you'll start to feel more comfortable with it.

When you're comfortable with the stall turn, it's not as big a leap to do a loop. In fact, with enough forward speed and good collective, you'll go very little below mid stick on the throttle, if that far. Start out just like with the stall turn: forward flight and add throttle to start climbing. As it's climbing, pull back on the elevator. Don't just slam it back, be smooth and gentle with it. Unlike the stall turn, this time as the heli comes vertical, continue through with the elevator back and the throttle up. Start easing back on the throttle when the heli is at the top of the loop. Just ease off enough to round out the loop a bit, then as the nose is pointing straight down start adding throttle back up to fly out of the loop. If you have your collective pitch set up for +10/-10, you probably won't have to lower the throttle more than half stick with this technique. You're "powering" through most of the loop.

It may seem weird that you don't let off the throttle until the top and that you don't have to go negative with it, but trust me it works and gives you a good positive feel. Just make sure you start out with plenty of altitude. If you're smooth it won't be that hard on the servos, I would think whatever you have should be fine.

A roll isn't too tough either. Get some speed flying forward into the wind. You'll want the nose pretty close to level, maybe a little down for the forward speed but not much. Again, make sure you start with plenty of altitude. Just before you start the roll, pop the throttle up a little bit, then roll to the heli's right (rolling right is easier than rolling left). Then it's just a matter of timing the collective as you continue through the roll - as the heli is on it's edge your throttle should be at mid stick, as the heli comes upside down the throttle should be near bottom stick, then back to mid stick as the heli comes around on it's other edge than back to positive throttle as the heli levels out. Unlike the loop, you'll probably need to bring the throttle well below mid stick. The more nose-down you were when you started the lower you'll have to bring the throttle while upside down.

For a flip, it was suggested to me to first attempt a forward flip. Again, plenty of altitude to start, tail in. Increase throttle to climb, as it starts climbing give it forward elevator. Hold the throttle until the heli is vertical nose down, then start pulling the throttle down below mid stick to stop the heli just as it's fully inverted. As it's inverted, center the elevator and let it pause there for a second. Don't try to make any corrections yet, just pause briefly then pull *BACK* on the throttle to climb again and push the elevator forward (same direction as before) to bring the heli back around to upright.

After this flip maneuver the heli should end up further away from you, but with practice you'll learn to time you're throttle and elevator to keep it in one place. Again, learning it this way gives you a pretty positive feel and helps you learn good throttle management.

If it gets a little out of shape during the flip don't worry about it. Just continue through the flip until you're upright again then correct. If you have plenty of altitude and space it won't be a problem. You'll have more problems trying to correct in an unfamiliar orientation when you're freaking out about it. But if you just continue through with the flip it will come back around, something would have to go very wrong for it not too.

Practice that for a while and as you gain more comfort with it you can increase the time of the pause when you're inverted and slowly start to add corrections. When you start adding corrections, only do one or two before continuing back out to upright. Then slowly work up to more time inverted until you feel comfortable hovering there. At that point, you can start progressing to more inverted maneuvers just like you did upright maneuvers.

Remember, when you go inverted in this way (with elevator starting tail in), the aileron will be "backwards". Move the stick left to move the heli to your right and vice versa. The elevator doesn't change, forward stick will still move the heli away from you.

edit: wow, that was really long [X(]

Oh, flybar weights, they're just little collars with a set screw in them that are on the flybar. You loosen the set screw and slide the collar out towards the flybar paddle or in towards the head. With the weights further out towards the paddles the heli will be more stable and the cyclic will respond slower. Close in to the head the heli will be less stable and respond more quickly to cyclic. Both weights should be the same distance to keep the flybar balanced.


Carbon blades can handle more head speed than woodies. Higher head speed makes the heli more stable and responsive. I was scared to death to do my first loop until I got a heli with carbon blades and higher head speed. Even after I got comfortable looping that heli, I went back to try and loop my other one with the lower head speed and woodies and almost ate it. It was pretty scary. I'm running probably about 2800-3000 rpm with the carbon blades and it feels much more comfortable to me, more stable and sure. I upped the head spead to probably about 2500 with the woodies and loops are doable on it, but the feel isn't as solid.

gnd2, owesome post. I wanna go try but not sure I'm ready yet []

gnd2 wow thanks man that is some great info!!!!!! its toooooo bad though!!! for flip sakes today i had a crash after reading this all no i dint atempt a loop yet...i lost control of it doing a nose in hover flight. i can fly really good curcuts and fly super high and do very fast forward flight i am comftalbe around the sky but doing no 3d and i struggle with nose in like today had a crash because nose in is super hard for me!!! crash wasnt to bad....blades , paddles and boom broke so im gonna replace them now. the worst news for me though is now i feel totally discouraged i feel like im not even close to pulling off a loop yet alone nose in and i really thought i was ready so i am really very disapointed in myself and ive lost all my confidence what to do? anyway quess it happens just gta move on.......[&o]

sorry to hear about your crash. but EVERYONE crashes so take comfort in that. I myself had a crash yesterday. Dont let this shake your confidence....rebuild it and keep going.

Ya, crashes happen. Best thing to do is get back up as soon as you can and just take it easy the first couple flights to get your confidence back.

Nose in - there are two different methods people use to learn:

One is to do figure-8's and make them rounder and rounder so that as you come through the middle you're closer and closer to nose in, then when it's nose in slow it down a little bit, each time getting slower and slower until you bring it to a hover. Pause for a second in hover then continue the figure-8. Then each time you come around, pause a little longer and eventually add a correction or two. Slowly work your way up, just like inverted hover.

That didn't work well for me. I just got too freaked out as the nose came around on me. With more time and patience I'm sure it would have worked eventually, but the second method worked much better for me:

Start over. Remember how you first learned to hover? You found a nice flat area and set the heli down tail in and just kept practicing tail in hover until you were solid. Well, do that again but nose in. Nice big flat area, set the heli down nose in, scoot around on the ground a little to get comfortable with the direction. Forget what you've learned tail in, it's all backwards now. Clear your mind and let it absorb the new orientation without trying to think too much about it. Don't remind your self that it's the opposite of tail in, just watch how it reacts to your stick movement and let it sink in. Very zen. [8D]

I got the hang of nose in much quicker doing it the second way, but everyone is different, you just have to see what works best for you.

BTW, one of the worst crashes I've had was learning nose in. I was only about 8 inches off the ground and started to lose it so set it down, guess it was at a bad angle or something and the thing just exploded. I just looked at it with wide eyes going "what the **** just happened???" (haha, this thing filters out w, t and f ) The rotor had hit the tail boom and just wiped the thing out. I couldn't believe it. I've planted my HBKII straight into the ground upside down from 10 feet up with less damage then that one from 8 inches.

But, eventually I got the hang of it. Didn't take as long as tail in hover since it's still the same feel, just gotta get used to the different direction but you'll get it. After nose in I started doing circuits and reverse figure 8's. With normal figure 8's the tail is mostly in the whole time, the nose never crosses you, with reverse figure 8's the nose crosses you each time around, good practice, not easy to learn (again, I freak out whenever the nose comes around, still dealing with that but getting better ). I did all this before attempting a loop. Actually, my first attempt at an inverted maneuver was a roll with the HBKII before learning all this. It ended as I described in the paragraph above [:'(] so I didn't try anything inverted again until I was doing nose in, circuits and reverse figure 8's with some confidence.

It'll come, just remember, fixing 'em is half the fun


Thanks. Just work up slowly starting with stall turns like I said. It also helps if you know someone that can do loops and have them fly your heli to make sure it's setup properly. I felt MUCH better about trying it the first time knowing that the heli would be capable.

Oh ya, and get comfortable flying with some altitude and distance from you if you aren't already. I had to make an effort to get used to that as well as I kept it in really close for quite a while. Altitude is your friend when trying something new

thanks for the help guys! well finally rebulit it today so alls good! im gonna leave the loop for a wile i quess and concetrate on nose in really didnt expect this to happen thought id get the loop by now but hey im only 16yrs old so no rush!!!! wow gnd2 i really love all your posts they are some of the most helpfull ive had on rcu!!! now time to get up dust myself off and keep flying.......

Glad you got your heli fixed up again. Man, I wish I could have been flying heli's at 16. At that age I had just gotten my first "real" RC car. I've been flying a little over 2 years now and you sound like you're right about where I was after a year, so you're doing alright


After about a year, I started thinking I was just about ready to do a loop too, but then I just wasn't flying as much for several months and didn't really advance until a few months ago I met some guys at work who fly. Then I started flying a lot more and seeing how they fly and getting advice from them. All that helped a lot and within a couple months I did my first loop. That was a little over one month ago, I'm getting pretty comfortable with the loops and rolls now and holding inverted hover for a few seconds, still getting used to that orientation [:-]. I'm just passing on what's worked for me getting to this point. Glad you found it helpful. Just keep practicing and flying regularly, even if it's just forward flight, if you can get in the air at least once or twice a week it really helps

I am also 17. I have a t rex 450, and a 250. I can do figure 8's and almost hover nose in with the 250. I have crashed it once. That is kinda my guinnie pig heli. But I have done 6 loops with my 450. It was so much fun just watching the heli go around and actually do it in real life. But I did have a couple close calls so I stopped doing that for a while haha. And your posts really help. Thank you .

I have been flying helis for about 3 months so i'm not doing to bad . My 450 has a scorpion motor and it has crazy headspeed. It was intimidating in the beginning to get used to. But I got really comfortable flying it. I didn't like the low flight times so I got a stock motor for cheap from a friend and I am using that for now. I don't really need the scorpion power yet so I want more flight time.

thanks gnd2 now im not so worried anymore and i had a real nice flight today took her really high up around over 50feet and was enjoying myself hmm u sound like your a pretty good flyer fusebmx i bet ill be as good as you when im 17 though! :P why is your flight time shorter with a scorpion motor how do you determine flight times based on your motor??