Swashbuckler

My Feedback: (1)

I've recently seen some threads showing pictures of hand injuries due to people sticking their hands in props or due to some mechanical/structural failure resulting in the prop (sometimes dragging the engine along) flying off and hitting someone. This got me wondering if there are any tips or techniques I can use to protect myself from injury while starting my plane's engine, or at any other time when the plane is on the ground and the engine is running. This ground may have been plowed before in another thread, but I did a quick search and didn't find anything.

Are there any simple techniques (like body positioning) you guys use when starting an engine to enhance your safety? (Other than the obvious: "don't stick your hand in the prop".) One guy at my field holds the starter in one hand and puts his other hand on the fuse in such a way that his arm is between the prop and his face - I guess the theory being that his arm is acting as a shield for his face and head.

I was just wondering what other people did. Thanks.

nedyob

My Feedback: (67)

One thing you might get is a Plane holder that you stick in the ground and it holds the tail section while you do engine run ups or adjustments.
When I start my planes I neel down on one knee using my electric starter.I am positioned to the front and left side of my plane to get out of the arc of the prop, so If the prop kicks something up it wont hit me in the face. Make shure your throttle is at idle on your transmitter.
After starting the engine (make shure its at idle only) and move around behind the plane and remove your glow starter and make your throttle adjustments from behind the plane. Also you might have someone stand by holding the tail, or if you feel uncomfortable startingyour engine, have someone start it for you.
Anyway, getting a plane holder is a great idea and holds your plane so you dont have a run away plane just incase you accidently hit the throttle stick on your transmittler.
NEDYOB

ifixairplanes

My Feedback: (9)

my basic rule of thumb: be afraid, be very afraid.
I caught my finger in the prop once, it was at idle at it brought my 46fx to a dead stop. I was going to remove my glow igniter and my finger went through the arc. I never expierenced such pain in my life, it was very cold out also. I stood up immediatley and went into my house, i seriously almost blacked out from the pain! I made a clean, razor looking cut into the top of my finger, and the prop came to a dead stop on my bone...ouch. Now when around a running prop, i always make a BIG arc around the prop with my hand and give myself plenty of clearance. good luck!

sean

famousdave

My Feedback: (61)

Im not trying to be sarcastic, as I think the subject certainly deserves respect, but most injuries occur due to ignorance or stupidity. In every case I have read at RCU, every one was avoidable.

Here are 7 simple rules.

1> Treat the prop like a razor knife, know that it will cut you any chance it gets
2> Use an electric starter if possible (30cc and below)
3> Always stay to the side or behind the prop while starting (this is where the starter is key)
4> Always stand behind the plane during a power check (have yet to see a firewall fail at idle)
5> Use an assistant when possible
6> Always keep your balance (believe it not I have seen guys fall into their planes while tip-toeing or kneeling)
7> DONT BE STUPID - don't ever start an engine with more than 10% open throttle

If you get cut after following these rules, well then you just have bad luck....

DP

Roby

This is one of those topics that someone could write a book on and never cover it all.
All the previous threads above seem to very reasonable and accurate. The only advice
that I can offer is to THINK and FOCUS on what "your" doing and hope that the guy "next"
to you is doing the same. In the many years that I have been associated with model airplanes
I have seen some stuff you might not believe. But still....after all that.......the most dangerous
part of any flying session is getting to and from the field.


Regards
Roby

DualdudE

@desertpig

Some things are just NOT possible

1) Standing behind or aside your prop while using an electric starter. Thats damn near impossible. Especially when you're behind your prop. You can't give enough pressure when you're not in front.
2) Starting with more than 10% throttle, and what about engines with just a venturi?

my 0.02

CafeenMan

Heavy gloves

hookedonrc

Remember that even when you employ the tips you get here, it takes only a second of misdirection of your focus to cause a problem. I recommend using large deliberate movements of your hand and never taking off the glow plug before you get behind the plane. Of course, overtime you will do this without concentrating and that's where you get bitten. Also you can try imagining that the prop is a circular saw blade. How many of us would get close to one mounted at the end of a drill if it was turned on. That's pretty much what you have. (I know of what I speak...19 stitches in my right hand back me up.)

CafeenMan

just testing

sirrom

My Feedback: (4)

I think what happens is people get complacent when it comes to this hobby. I have seen people cut their fingers to the bone. The worst that I ever saw is a prop started at a guys thumb and walked all the way up his arm about half way to the elbow. Now that was an expensive and very very painful lesson to learn but now when I see him at the field he is always very careful around running airplanes. I have never been whacked by a running engine an nor will I ever be because I know, even a .25 size motor can kill you. I have seen guys reach over the top of a running prop exposing that vein that is in your wrist to the propellor. One moment of lack of focus and you could cut yourself beyond repair. I fly jets now so I don't have to be worried about the propellor but I do have to be worried about my fingers getting sucked into the front of a running turbine. I also have to agree with the guy who said use a helper and a starter. You don't know how many times I have seen guys trying to start a .45 or .60 size motor with their fingers and have the prop either kick back and catch their finger(s) or start and catch their finger(s) I just have to sit their and shake my head and wonder how shallow their gene pool actually is.


Just treat these motors with a whole lot of respect when dealing with them and for heavens sake PAY ATTENTION to what the hell you are doing.

Patrick

ifixairplanes

My Feedback: (9)

That is exactly what i do! I think about everything i do when my engine is running and i am next to it. That whack on the finger woke me up and i will never to it again! I yell at my student a lot for just going straight to the glow igniter and not making it a point to go around it. I have seen his fingers come within 1", and IMO that is too close. My hand movement around the prop to the glow plug is so large, i must have like 8" or more of clearance.

I kneel in the three point stance (real aircraft mechanics may know this as the way you hold the prop for a differential compression check) on the left side of the fuselage. My right hand holds my plane in front of the canopy, or where i get a good grip, and my left hand has my electric starter.
Once started, i put down the starter in front of the prop and off to the side, by my field box. Then with my left hand, i make a large, deliberate arc around the prop and pull off the glow starter. I then get behind my aircraft and run up my engine. I have not gotten bitten, yet, by using this method.
Anyone else have another method? What works for all of you, maybe I can make my way a bit safer from what others have to say.

sean

frugalflyer

I presented this safety device to a local club, 1 April a couple of years ago. It was not adopted.
I also suggested the stand be removed and it be permantly fixed to the plane. It was considered that this might give a weight and balance problem.

WCB

We operate on the "cover your buddy" system. If you see me fixing to do something careless or if something doesn't look right warn me and I will do the same for you. Nobody gets mad. Sometimes you might be at a better angle to see something I don't see. Many times I'ver heard "boy, I am glad you saw that." Just look out for one another.

DBCherry

My Feedback: (4)

I kneel on one knee or both, in front of the plane, and a bit to the left side of the prop. (I'm right handed.) I reach around the left side of the prop and grasp the fuselage between the firewall and canopy (necessary to keep the plane from moving back when you apply the starter), then push firmly on the spinner or prop nut with the starter.

Once running, I usually try to walk around the right side of the prop to remove my glow igniter, but confess to reaching over the prop to remove it about half the time. If reaching over, I lift my elbow above my shoulder (still in a kneeling position) and then reach over the prop. That way I know my hand is a number of inches above the prop.

I agree with "making large movements". It helps to keep your mind on what you're doing.
Dennis-

blvdbuzzard

There is lots of good advice here. I would like to add, pait the tips of the blades. It does help you see them. I have been whacked a couple of times but I have not had to get stitches from them "YET" I had my pointer finger on my right hand turned to a lovely purple and black by my Saito 1.20 back firing. That felt sooooooooooo good, if you are into severe pain. The worst that happened to me, was caused by some one else. I was starting my plane. It had just gone to full throttle, when a guy was walking by swinging his glow plug clip around like a yo-yo. Well he let go ( slipped out of his hands) and it went straight for my plane. It hit the prop and the prop and glow plug clip just about exploded. Pieces of wood, metal, plastic went every where. I had a scratch on my fore head about an inch long just deep enough to bleed like a hose. The stuff that was flying blew my hat and sun glasses off. So some times it is not what we do to our selves, but what we can do to others when we are not looking at what is around us.

Dru.

Jim Branaum

My Feedback: (3)

When I got involved with this mess, some old guy insisted that I NEVER get in the arc of the prop. He claimed that IF a prop threw a blade, I wouldn't want to get hit by it. I did not believe him, but since he was teaching me how to fly R/C, I did it his way. So, I developed a methodology that meets your needs.

I kneel to MY right of the plane (right handed) but in forward of the prop line. I use my left hand to secure the model (EVEN when I have a helper on my glow driven big birds - had a helper pull a plane back into my hand - bruised the heck out of me but I got lucky and no cuts!) and my right to use the chicken stick or starter. The rule I follow is that the glow driver is NEVER taken off until I have moved to another position. This helps me remember NOT to put body parts in the prop. I fire the engine up by chicken stick or starter and then I get up and move to the rear of the plane while holding it and THEN reach forward to remove the glow driver.

After 20 some odd years I FINALLY had a prop throw a blade. I was behind the prop and tacking the engine on a break in run. It happened so fast I didn't have a clue as to what happened. The vibration was so bad so suddenly that my first clue that there was a problem was when I saw the .91 four stroke lying on the ground in front of the plane. Now when I help others, I insist they take similar actions (staying out of the prop arc) because I HAVE BTDT!

CafeenMan

This actually happened last spring. I was at my table working on my plane when a guy sets up his very poorly built, over-powered, quarter scale monster on the next table and proceeds to start it up with nobody holding the plane and it's pointed right at me less than 5' away. I yelled to him and he motioned for ME to get out of the way.

Jim Branaum

My Feedback: (3)

That reminds me of the time one of the older guys flying a warbird made a low pass across the pits. For some reason I turned just in time to see it coming so I was able to eat dirt. I VERY LOUDLY told him he was not supposed to fly over the pits. HE told me I shouldn't have been walking there! It tells funnier than it was.

CafeenMan, it sounds like your club needs some safety rules. You know, no starting of airplanes unless in the pit or runway area.

CafeenMan

Jim - We have rules - nobody follows them. My club is primarily comprised of half to fully deaf and blind guys. I'm not kidding. It's by far the most frightening club I've ever belonged to from a safety standpoint. No safety officer and nobody listens when safety issues are brought up. That's about all I'm going to say because I could write a couple books and probably wouldn't be welcome back to the field.

higheronnitro

Just as food for thought
I have seen pictures of a gentleman in England who's approach to this problem which looked interesting to say the least. The electric starter was mounted to the inside of his flight box on some sort of sled arrangement. The height of the starter was able to be adjusted to suit different aircraft and was sprung loaded with a on switch at the end of its travel. When he went to start his plane he would attach the glow driver and holding the aircraft from behind push the nose cone into the starter which when enough force was applied would engage the electric starter. Never did he have to be anywhere near the nasty end.
It looked easy enough to set up ( harder to explain ).
I have also thought long and hard of a method of eliminating the glow driver ( Apart from an on board one ) and somehow incorporating the contacts in the starter cone thereby eliminating one reason to reach through the prop ( still some late nights to go on that one ).
Regards Steve

blvdbuzzard

Speaking of throwing propr and prop blades, how many remember the white nylon props???? Those were the worst props ever made. At the field I belonged to back then, late 70's we had so many fail that the club banned them. One guy got a blade through th shoulder. He hit the prop on landing, looked at itand it appeared fine until he started up again and it through it like a missle.

Dangerous clubs. One I was at to see if I wanted to join, had the safety officer fly his new .91 powered Fs Cub into the pits inverted. Another plane took off across the runway out of control because a guy turned on his radio with out the Freq. pin. The club VP was lighting his BBQ in the pits with all of the glow fuel around. I just did not feel to safe there. I could be wrong and it was just a bad day but I did not join.

Dru.

Jim Branaum

My Feedback: (3)

CafeenMan,

I think that were I in your shoes, I would be looking for another club. Even if I had to drive an hour to get there and the present club was next door. My INTACT hide is worth the drive. But that is MY opinion.

Good luck

famousdave

My Feedback: (61)

Dualdude - you are partially correct, in fact standing behind a prop and reaching around while trying to start is more dangerous then standing in front of it! Without a picture its hard to convey what I mean. Instead of standing directly in front of the prop, I stand off to the left of the engine with one hand on a wing or the fuse to hold, and the other one on the starter (so basically, only your hand is in harm's way). This is harder if you are a lefty. Once the engine starts I move well away from the the prop. If I need to make adjustments, I do it at bench-level and always have someone hold.

I am also speaking mainly about larger engines. Venturi engines (i.e. freeflight, c/l etc) obviously have no throttles, so it makes it more important to either have help or
be extra careful.

ifixairplanes

My Feedback: (9)

Good ideas guys, from what you all have said, i am not going to immediatley reach over the prop and grab the glow driver. I am going to from now on wait until i am behind the aircraft to take it off. Although usually, since mine is a hobbico twist on glow driver, it usually pops off onto the ground from the vibration of the engine running. My engine is mounted sideways, so it dosnt go near the prop when it falls off, just onto the ground.
One more thing, you say not to be in the prop arc because of the chance of a thrown blade, what about heli's. I get so nervous when those things are flying, the guys usually hover them at eye level and i think it would be disastrous if one were to throw a blade! I usually walk behind a picnic table or something when those things are up, they scare me!

sean

wrongwaywayne

Maybe I should change my saying to: Its alwsays fun till somebody looses a finger.

I think the danger comes with that darned glow plug charger.