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Old 12-04-2007 | 06:49 PM
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Default Glue for hinges

Anyone have any advice on using a glue for robart style hinges ( barbs on them ) besides epoxy. I used Zap hinge glue before...like that stuff but no HS in my area has any. Is there an alternative...like Tightbond? I heard about Gorilla glue.

Thanks

Mike
Old 12-04-2007 | 07:51 PM
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Default RE: Glue for hinges

....Welcome to RCU, Mike....[sm=thumbup.gif]

....I assume you are hinging into wood ? Tite-Bond, or almost anywood glue would work,
thick CA would probably work good too. I haven't used any of those expanding glues yet.

Flyboy Dave.
Old 12-04-2007 | 08:12 PM
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Default RE: Glue for hinges

I use Gorilla glue....

BUT!!! YOU MUST KEEP AN EYE ON IT!
Do not glue, then go to bed or something......

Dry fit everything then.....
What I do is put a drop of water in the slot(for flat) or hole(for pin) then put a a bit of vaseline right on the hinge.. don't get it on anything but the hinge portion...
then put a thin layer of GG on the hinge and put it in the hole....
wipe off any excess.....
in about 30 minutes come back.... wipe off any excess that has expanded out and flex the hinge a couple times to make sure no glue is getting into the hinge....
do this every 30 minutes for about 2 to 3 hrs.....
done....

I put all the hinges in one side first (either the trailing edge of the control surface) when those are dry I then attach the surface....

Sounds like a pain but it isn't too bad and I have never had one fail.......
Old 12-04-2007 | 08:16 PM
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Default RE: Glue for hinges

http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...article_id=269
Take a look at this
Old 12-04-2007 | 09:16 PM
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Default RE: Glue for hinges

For what it's worth- I bought Gorilla glue and had a terrible time with it foaming and pushing back. Worth it if it works....hasn't failed in my airplane yet (a lightly loaded trainer.) I did a test between Gorilla glue and Titebond by gluing 2 small boards together face to face, edge to edge, and end to end. I put the pieces outside fully exposed to the elements. After about 3 months the end to end Gorilla glue joint failed (cracked and separated). All other joints held up. All Titebond held up. A sad note- my bottle of (expensive!) Gorilla glue hardened in the bottle and I had to throw it away. Long story short- I am back to using 30 min epoxy. A drop of oil on the pin and wipe excess with alcohol or acetone. I would be interested in any other method.

Jim
Old 12-05-2007 | 02:23 PM
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Default RE: Glue for hinges

After trying both Gorilla Glue and epoxy for hinges, I like 30 minute epoxy better, primarily because of the foaming factor. It's touch to clamp control services firmly enough to prevent the foaming glues from either pushing the hinge out of alignment, or getting into the hinge joint. As has been mentioned, the epoxy with a drop of oil in the hinge seems to prevent that problem. If you're concerned about the Robarts pulling out of the hole, what I've done with the 3/16 size is drill a couple of small holes in the hinge point body so the epoxy can grab a little better. Not sure if this actually makes a difference, but the theory seems sound. It would be tough to do this on the 1/8 sized Robarts.

One alternative to Gorilla Glue is Loctite's Sumo glue. It doesn't foam as much, and clean-up seems a little easier. But you still need to check the alignment for 1-2 hours after installation to make sure nothing's moved.
Old 12-05-2007 | 03:31 PM
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Default RE: Glue for hinges

The Robart points are round, but the hinge joint is square. You can keep gorilla glue out of the hinge joint with a little square of polyethylene, maybe 1" square, folded twice, then the corner nipped off with sharp scissors. That gives you a tiny square opening in the middle of the square. Slide that over the point to protect the hinge, then dab some glue on, slip it into the piece. You still need to check for foaming out of the hole, since if the glue dries it will interfere with the control surface movement. But it won't foam into the hinge joint. When the glue is cured, just snip again with the scissors from the edge of the poly down to the center, and pull the little square away. Works good for me!

I used to use a lot of polyurethane glue (predecessor to gorilla glue) in a former life. The stuff is very strong and tenacious, and the foaming feature is well-suited for this kind of use.
Old 12-05-2007 | 04:19 PM
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Default RE: Glue for hinges

I've been using Tightbond II and a glue injector from Rockler.

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=10564

Just shoot the hole full of glue and put the hinge in.. Very little comes back out.
Old 12-05-2007 | 05:18 PM
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Default RE: Glue for hinges

Canopy glue works well. Easy to use and clean. I had heard about using it and had the chance to use it on a repaired elevator recently. It worked very well.
Old 12-06-2007 | 12:20 PM
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Default RE: Glue for hinges

I am a strong proponent of polyurethane glue (Gorilla Glue and other brands)... It has some unique characteristics, and takes a bit of getting used to because of that. Chief among those is that fact that it "foams" or expands as it is curing. That has the positive effect of filling gaps (of which there are usually many is our wood structures) resulting in a more complete (and, presumably, stronger) glue joint. This expansion can be a bit of a problem until you get used to using this material. Only a minimal amount is required. I can build a quarter-scale sized all-wood plane with about 2-3 ounces of this glue (some of which gets wiped away as waste). Note that I am a "heavy builder" using probably more materials and glue than really required. I think that is a very reasonable volume (and weight) of glue to add to an airframe of such size. I have found it to be very strong and somewhat flexible (not prone to cracking). The joints are VERY MUCH stronger than the surrounding wood. For laminations, if you use a "woodpecker" or some other technique to make small perforations in the surface of the material, the glue expands into these and really gets "teeth" in to the material. The glue also adheres well to most other materials (except for some "slick" plastics such as polypropylene, and because of that SARAN wrap, or knockoffs, make a good covering for plans as the glue will release from it fairly easily in case it gets glued to the work).

I use mostly Robart hinge points for attaching control surfaces. I use the P-U glue for those, as well. Simply place a TINY amount of oil or melted vaseline on the hinge portion of the hinge-point. Wipe away any excess. After compleing drilling and fitting the holes for the hinges, start the effort by placing the hingepoints into the control surface component. You can simply use a thin stick (I use bamboo barbeque skewers) to work a SMALL amount of P-U glue into the hole for the hinge (put it well down into the hole, not hear the opening. Use a Q-tip to remove any excess that is near the opening. Then place the hingepoint into the hole (make sure it in the proper orientation and depth). Let it set up for a couple hours (maybe a bit longer if you are in a very low humidity environment, as it is the humidity the "sets" the glue). If you have done it right, there should be very little, if any, expansion into the hinge area. If there some, just trim it away w/ your Xacto blade. Once you have the hinges set in the control surface and set up, the perform the like operation on the flying surface attachment points and attach the control surface. The nice thing about this technique is the expansion of the glue into the "barbs" of the hinge point. Believe me, you can't pull it out without destroying the surrounding wood.

P-U glue is also excellent for skinning foam wing cores. After edge glueing the sheeting (for which I usually use PVA "white" or "yellow carpenters glue" , place a small amount of P-U glue on the core side of the skin, spread it out THIN using an old credit card, use a spray bottle and mist the OUTSIDE of the skin (the side opposite the glue/core, this will accelerate the expansion and curing of the glue (due to the moisture penetrating thru the skin to the glued side) and will also help to "curve" the sheeting around the core), place the sheeted core back into the core "shuck" and weight it with something heavy. The P-U glue will expand to attach the skin to the foam with a complete joint, filling any gaps our imperfections in the core. Give the technique a try w/ some scap balsa and foam before commiting a set of cores. I think you will like the results if you are conservative on the amount of glue that you use. If you use too much, you are going to have a LOT of expansion around the edges to trim away after it sets up. If you place spars (or gear mounts, etc.) into the core prior to skinning, P-U is a good choice for those as well, again due to the expansion and gap filling nature of it.

It is NOT as good for any glue joint that will be exposed and visible (not painted) after construction, as it will turn increasingly brown upon exposure to sunlight. I am not sure that it results in any meaningful loss of strength, but it is not cosmetically acceptable (unless painted).

P-U glue is a bit pricey. As noted above, it is "triggered" by humidity. It is, therefore, ESSENTIAL to keep it tightly capped when not in use, keep it away from sources of moisture, otherwise it will begin to "kick" in the bottle, turning into an unusable gel... Your first indication that this is happening will be that it clouds a bit (normally a pretty much clear amber color).

BTW - it sands pretty well, too...

I know a lot of folks prefer CA glues because of the instant setup. I have found that CA causes me to have respiratory problems (sort of like having a head cold), so I use very little of it (mostly only to "harden" threaded holes like wing mounts). I am also a bit "ham handed" so instant setup not really a good thing for me. Some time to adjust parts fit after applying glue a big plus... Harbor Freight has soem nice little plastic spring-loaded clamps that are CHEAP that as great for building. I have a whole shoebox full of them on the building table...
Old 12-09-2007 | 07:53 PM
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Default RE: Glue for hinges

I have had good results with Pacer hinge glue. I also use melted vasoline to prevent the glue from interfering with the hinge.
Old 03-25-2008 | 09:09 PM
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Default RE: Glue for hinges


ORIGINAL: LunaSea

I am a strong proponent of polyurethane glue (Gorilla Glue and other brands)... It has some unique characteristics, and takes a bit of getting used to because of that. Chief among those is that fact that it "foams" or expands as it is curing. That has the positive effect of filling gaps (of which there are usually many is our wood structures) resulting in a more complete (and, presumably, stronger) glue joint. This expansion can be a bit of a problem until you get used to using this material. Only a minimal amount is required. I can build a quarter-scale sized all-wood plane with about 2-3 ounces of this glue (some of which gets wiped away as waste). Note that I am a "heavy builder" using probably more materials and glue than really required. I think that is a very reasonable volume (and weight) of glue to add to an airframe of such size. I have found it to be very strong and somewhat flexible (not prone to cracking). The joints are VERY MUCH stronger than the surrounding wood. For laminations, if you use a "woodpecker" or some other technique to make small perforations in the surface of the material, the glue expands into these and really gets "teeth" in to the material. The glue also adheres well to most other materials (except for some "slick" plastics such as polypropylene, and because of that SARAN wrap, or knockoffs, make a good covering for plans as the glue will release from it fairly easily in case it gets glued to the work).

I use mostly Robart hinge points for attaching control surfaces. I use the P-U glue for those, as well. Simply place a TINY amount of oil or melted vaseline on the hinge portion of the hinge-point. Wipe away any excess. After compleing drilling and fitting the holes for the hinges, start the effort by placing the hingepoints into the control surface component. You can simply use a thin stick (I use bamboo barbeque skewers) to work a SMALL amount of P-U glue into the hole for the hinge (put it well down into the hole, not hear the opening. Use a Q-tip to remove any excess that is near the opening. Then place the hingepoint into the hole (make sure it in the proper orientation and depth). Let it set up for a couple hours (maybe a bit longer if you are in a very low humidity environment, as it is the humidity the "sets" the glue). If you have done it right, there should be very little, if any, expansion into the hinge area. If there some, just trim it away w/ your Xacto blade. Once you have the hinges set in the control surface and set up, the perform the like operation on the flying surface attachment points and attach the control surface. The nice thing about this technique is the expansion of the glue into the "barbs" of the hinge point. Believe me, you can't pull it out without destroying the surrounding wood.

P-U glue is also excellent for skinning foam wing cores. After edge glueing the sheeting (for which I usually use PVA "white" or "yellow carpenters glue" , place a small amount of P-U glue on the core side of the skin, spread it out THIN using an old credit card, use a spray bottle and mist the OUTSIDE of the skin (the side opposite the glue/core, this will accelerate the expansion and curing of the glue (due to the moisture penetrating thru the skin to the glued side) and will also help to "curve" the sheeting around the core), place the sheeted core back into the core "shuck" and weight it with something heavy. The P-U glue will expand to attach the skin to the foam with a complete joint, filling any gaps our imperfections in the core. Give the technique a try w/ some scap balsa and foam before commiting a set of cores. I think you will like the results if you are conservative on the amount of glue that you use. If you use too much, you are going to have a LOT of expansion around the edges to trim away after it sets up. If you place spars (or gear mounts, etc.) into the core prior to skinning, P-U is a good choice for those as well, again due to the expansion and gap filling nature of it.

It is NOT as good for any glue joint that will be exposed and visible (not painted) after construction, as it will turn increasingly brown upon exposure to sunlight. I am not sure that it results in any meaningful loss of strength, but it is not cosmetically acceptable (unless painted).

P-U glue is a bit pricey. As noted above, it is "triggered" by humidity. It is, therefore, ESSENTIAL to keep it tightly capped when not in use, keep it away from sources of moisture, otherwise it will begin to "kick" in the bottle, turning into an unusable gel... Your first indication that this is happening will be that it clouds a bit (normally a pretty much clear amber color).

BTW - it sands pretty well, too...

I know a lot of folks prefer CA glues because of the instant setup. I have found that CA causes me to have respiratory problems (sort of like having a head cold), so I use very little of it (mostly only to "harden" threaded holes like wing mounts). I am also a bit "ham handed" so instant setup not really a good thing for me. Some time to adjust parts fit after applying glue a big plus... Harbor Freight has soem nice little plastic spring-loaded clamps that are CHEAP that as great for building. I have a whole shoebox full of them on the building table...
WARNING if you use Poly glue for skinning a surface and want to spread it with a credit card, do not notch the edge of the credit card to spread the glue like a tile trawl. I found this leaves ribbons of glue that will expand higher than the rest of the glue on the surface and leave a washboard effect on the opposite side of your surface after cureing.
Old 03-25-2008 | 09:37 PM
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Default RE: Glue for hinges

Canopy glue, Pacer hinge glue, or Titebond II all work well, easy water cleanup, no standing around watching the foam, just put vaseline on hinge area with toothpick, put glue in hole and on the hinge point, wipe off excess after insertion with a wet Q tip, flex control surface to align the hinges and you are done. Next morning go fly. Have used them on up to 1/4 scale with no problem. Wild horses couldn't pull the sucker off.
I have used all 3 types and really can't tell the diff with out some destructive testing. I have a problem with shelf life of canopy and hinge glue, so Titebond II is really my choice, since I keep a quantity on hand.

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