RE: Protecting yourself
 

I needed a more secure starting procedure and this is what I came up with.
Posted for ideas and then made an inexpensive portable unit.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_39...tm.htm#3952739

RE: Protecting yourself
 

sheck out my ad for the fuse anchor and you will not have to expose yourself to the whirling blades of death

RE: Protecting yourself
 

I started this hobby when chicken sticks were the norm, 35 years later I have been hit by the prop countless times, but I have to say once I bought my electric starter I don't think I have hit it ever again, I'm knocking on wood right now,, the fact is, everyone giving advice on this thread knows what their talking about, and there is no fail safe way to start these things except don't be in a hurry and make sure your completely aware of what you are doing at ALL times, and still there are no guarentees, It hurts like hell when you get bit, I know the pain all to well, there is nothing like a fresh blade slicing into the finger and stopping the prop on a 25 degree morning with Nitromethane on the fingers, Thats what they make Zap & CA for. :D The stupidest things happen for the dumbest reasons, it doesn't even have to be something you did, Things happen,,,, Pay attention and whenever possible be behind the plane for anything your doing after the motor is running. I have had my motor running and been behind my plane just letting it warm up, everything looks great and the prop just goes flying off the front of the engine. all of our club members have witnessed such things and have been bitten,, its part of the hobby, Expect it always and never let your guard down for 1 second.

The fear of getting hit by the prop has never kept me grounded, but it has made me very careful and respectful of the power it posseses.

Happy Flying and Safe Starting, Be affraid, be very affraid, but don't let it stop you from the great times this hobby is....

RE: Protecting yourself
 

A good work/starting table can save your fingers. If you are comfortable, and pay attention you will improve your safety. I built these for our club (I used tables very simular from another club to design mine) and also have one at home for engine testing.

RE: Protecting yourself
 

comeon people. look at the following moviez and you will see how to start an engine BY HAND and not get injured.

the trick is to flip in the opposite direction. then the engine will not be allowed to start until your finger is out of the propeller arc. NEVER NICKED A FINGER AND ALWAYS HAND START MY ENGINES

[link]http://www.modelism.mobilesolutions.ro/Aeromodelism/2006/Martie%2018/Andrei/[/link]

RE: Protecting yourself
 

I would say this ; do not stand or position your body in the prop arc. Sometimes props have a hair-line fracture that isn't visible and a prop blade can be thrown. If someone starts an engine near you and you notice that you are in the prop arc, look away immediately and step out of the arc. You don't want a fragment in your eye.
I think the rest is fairly obvious.

RE: Protecting yourself
 

I don't know who is hand starting that blue plane in the 1st video on Red Guy's reply, but if he had ever seen the crap I have seen in 35 years of doing this, he would never be kneeling in front of his plane to start it.

Not to criticize his or your method Red Guy, but its only a matter of time, I'm telling you right now, change that style... [&o] don't learn the hard way. Not to sound like an over protective mom or anything, but I have seen enough to have seen too much.

RE: Protecting yourself
 

I start my 2 stroke engines in nearly the same manner as Red_Guy.
Flipping the prop against the compression stroke to start it.
When I "feel" the engine kicking back. I know it will start.
But I use a chicken stick:)
Why[X(]
Because EVERYTHING is, or can be dangerous in the wrong hands;)
I was running-in a Super Tiger .45 ABC last spring, mounted in my Aircore 40, and got nailed.
The engine was surging, and my tie-down was less than perfect, and the plane flexes tied down at WOT.

I knew this, so it was entirely my fault.
I failed to fully charge my transmitter battery, my fault.
So when I tried to kill the engine with the throttle control nada[:o]
I reached for the high speed nedle valve, to try to stop the (surging) engine.
And lost the tip of my left index finger, which still doesn't work properly.

I'm not afraid of props, but I have learned that I had better respect them[8D]

RE: Protecting yourself
 

I have the engine pictured below. It makes 2 horsepower.

I have the table saw pictured below. It makes 2 horsepower.

Just a bit of perspective about starting model airplane engines with fingers . . .

RE: Protecting yourself
 

This is the setup I have been using to start all my glow engines. I can't take any credit for the idea or the design. I saw a photo of this setup in a Model Aviation magazine from the 1980's and basically copied it.
With the field box on the ground, I simply grab my airplane and push the spinner into the starter. After the engine starts, pull the aircraft back and the starter stops.
Hands are always behind the prop arc, no reaching around to remove the glow starter, or adjust the high speed needle.
Haven't had a prop strike to date, and feel this setup is the main reason.
I also have a photo of a model engine with a circular sawblade on it, attached to the back of the field box. Think it came out of the same Model Aviation magazine. Just a not so subtle reminder to be always alert around a running engine.
Jim

RE: Protecting yourself
 

Nice box set up there, I have seen those before as well, Some guys at our club uses the same type set up, I've always been impressed with it, it is definitely a Safer way to start these things, but like was said above, anything is dangerous, just have the respect. I like standing off the side behind the prop, I'm never in front of it, EVER,,, those props fly right off the engines at the most inconvienent times, usually your face takes the shot as it tends to climb when it leaves.
I only speak from experience. a 1 Time experience for me personally, countless for others.

RE: Protecting yourself
 

I'm really careful staring my engines.
I always double check that I have idle and touch the throttle stick to make sure.
I place the transmitter beside the plane (i.e not keeping it hanging from my neck) and always use 3M security glasses.

After I start the engine with starter I move around the plane, pick up my transmitter and remove the glow charger from behind the plane.
I also do all run ups and tweaks from there.

What really gets me is if someone close tweaks their engines at full tilt with the prop arc in my direct line. I really hate that and it's scary and bad respect.
Some people should really have an accident happen to them to realize the danger of a thrown blade or a runaway plane.

RE: Protecting yourself
 

We have a sort of unwritten rule in our club that starting and run-up are done at the aircraft staging area not in an area that is only a few feet from the next guy in the lot. Our benches are set to about 25 feet apart and the benches all have some sort of restraint system. Normally, everyone turns the benches so that the nose is into the wind even on the bench. That way, if a gust does come along, it won't try to twist the aircraft around on the bench.

As far as props coming off, well, I was trained to make sure someone is not in front of the aircraft where a broken blade may fly off to.. generally ask people to get behind the wings and the only person in front is me.

We do, occasionally, have people that want to start their aircraft on the ground, but they mostly away from the center of activity and use restraints to hold their planes back while doing engine tuning.

I've had a prop come off due to a backfire but it never went to far... I always keep my starting throttle setting to only two or three clicks from closed. Training, I guess.

DS.

RE: Protecting yourself
 

Another thing I came to think of are these neckstraps.
I never 'unplug' my radio from the strap, but take the whole thing off... I imagine an accident could happen if you just take off the transmitter and leave the strap.
(I'm thinking getting a prop caught in the strap and having it work it's way to your face at the end of the strap)

RE: Protecting yourself
 

Protecting myself when starting an engine.

Because I prefer to flip start my engines whenever possible,
I do wear a leather glove, I do my homework at home, and just use
a bunch of common sense just before and during the period of time
when the motor is running. No secrets involved with this technique.

Regards
Roby

RE: Protecting yourself
 

Have you found a place that sells bulk common sense at a good price? I'd like to buy a barrel and spread it around.......

RE: Protecting yourself
 

Nope, common sense can 't be bought. I thought
everyone already knew that.

Perhaps it only comes attached with experience and
some understanding of what's going around you at
all times.

Regards
Roby

RE: Protecting yourself
 

One thing I think important for both a success and safety is to establish a ritual and do not deviate from it without careful thought and consideration. If you figure out what to do and do it the same way every time you will fly well and safely. If anything happens to upset your ritual, back off and think before acting.

To give an example. I had been flying a CL stunt airplane off a stooge. It had an inverted engine and after I started it, I would walk around behind the wing and reach under and remove the glow plug clip. No problem. Friend came out and held the airplane for me. He was exactly where I was used to going to remove the glowplug clip. So I reached for it though the prop. Fortunately it didn't cut me up too bad. If I had considered the matter, I could have walked around to the other side of the airplane and removed the clip from behind with my left hand. No problem.

RE: Protecting yourself
 

Can't really add any tips here as everybody has covered everything I can think of. got a couple of stories though. First one was a few years ago this guy at our club was running up his engine. Saito150, and had shown a tendency to throw props(improper starting and adj. habits). this guy had been warned before and had had a couple close calls, but here he was, sitting in front of that engine and running it up to full throttle. Suddenly we heard a loud "pop" and looked over to find the guy lying on the ground. the engine had thrown (again) and shattered the entire prop/spinner assembly. Part of the prop hit him in the inner thigh about six inches below his "bit and pieces" and left a deep cut that needed nine stiches. Worse still was the biggest part of the spinner that was left hit him in the chest hard enough to bruise his sternum and cause heart palpitations. He was in his mid thirties, previously healthy and was out of work for two weeks after that.(We worked for the same company) Had he had a heart condition, he may very well have died.
My other story is about me. Saito 1.50 again.(not the same one!) Was breaking it in in my yard, had reached the "full throttle lean it a bit" stage. Had been running for about a minute since my last adjustment. it was at WOT and sounding good. walked around front of it, watching and listening to it run, POP! backfire, didn't toss prop but did shatter spinner. could feel the displaced air on my ear as a large chunk of it whizzed past.
The only thing i can say is there is NEVER A REASON TO BE IN FRONT OF A PROP/ENGINE THAT IS RUNNING ABOVE IDLE!!!!!!!
Can't count he number of time I've seen props spun but not thrown. someone got lucky every time.

RE: Protecting yourself
 

This is an interesting thread to me because I do think it is something we can become too complacent with. I just recently wacked my right thumb with the prop. (15x4) What had happened was that I had always set up my stuff on the right side of the table but recently got a new field box. With the new field box everything is opposite of the old one and it just wasn't working out to set it up on the same end of the table that I usually do. (our field is set up with picnic style tables and there is two flyers per table, one on each end) Anyway I started setting up on the opposite end of the table and it threw off my routine. What happened was that I started my engine with the elec. starter and reached across the prop to set it down and the prop wacked my knuckle of my right thumb. It hurt like crazy but didn't bleed much. It could have been much worse.

RE: Protecting yourself
 

Sometimes the only way one will learn is for them to be hit by a flying prop, I've been lucky enough to see it come off and fly into the side of a vehicle, If you saw the mark it left on the panel door of a full size van, you wouldn't never even have to think about being in front of the motor, EVER,,,,,, at any speed.... and that was just a 10 x 6, but words can not express to some just how powerful a flying prop can be until they experience it first hand, another 2 cents,, for what its worth.

RE: Protecting yourself
 

I'm a newbe but I've yet to see a suggestion to make sure there is NO lose clothing. IE un buttoned shirt, transmitter strap(someone mentioned that). Welding gloves, well there borderline. I think gloves are a good thing but welding gloves have a large cuff that make movement cumbersome. I've worked around sheet metal and I use work gloves that FIT made of cow hide (they're as heavy as welding gloves without the cuff). Welding typically are one size fits all and are loose fitting.
I like the benches someone posted but one thing I would change. I'd turn them at an angle end behind one another, like this:
/
.. /
..... /
instead of this
I I I
then draw lines for a safety zone on the ground. If paved painted or grass use round up to draw them like this
/__
...../__
........ /
in this configuration everyone is out of harms way. Put the posts in concrete so no one can turn them and put large Velcro straps to secure them if the wind picks up.
Now for flipping. I know the principal behind it to do it safely, but I wouldn't do it without a gloved hand.
Now I don't believe that even one of you are afraid of these motors these props are attached to. That's like saying a gun collector is afraid of ammunition or bullets. Respect however is a hole different ballgame.. Fear can block out commonsense and can cause irrational thought. I sure hope all of you are thinking rationally when you are on the flight line. If you treat these things with respect and are aware of these things being dangerous. that in it's self is a hole lot safer, in my opinion. Just like a gun is always loaded and a knife is always sharp, a prop can cut a finger off or worse.
I like every thing I've seen here in this thread. I'm new to this hobby and I have learned some things in this thread.
Thanks guys and keep it up.
Shawn

RE: Protecting yourself
 

I need to rephrase something. The prop isn't the bad guy here. I said "Just like a gun is always loaded and a knife is always sharp, a prop can cut a finger off or worse." Just like people blame guns for killing, It's not the gun or the prop, it's the idiot behind them. I should have said "Just like a gun is always loaded and a knife is always sharp,and if your stupid around a prop you WILL get hurt."
Shawn

RE: Protecting yourself
 

Sometimes I am amazed...

With all of the posts and talk about safety, it never ceases to amaze me how people put themselves in a risky position.

Yesterday I went out to my local field; first time I had been in several months. There was a person that I did not know hand starting a small twin; no chicken stick. And then he was tuning the engines from the front while reaching over the props. This is bad enough when there is one engine, but two, that takes the cake. Amazing.

I hope he does not become a statistic on the forums.

Doug

RE: Protecting yourself
 

scratchpc7
I will reapply my last post and add stupid hurts. If he's being stupid, he WILL get hurt.[:o]
Shawn

RE: Protecting yourself
 

Generally start with the plane restrained and using an electric start. Always wear safety sunglasses, at least then at a minimum the eyes are well protected. Removing the glow, always walk around back of the plane and remove it. If using engines inverted use a remote glow. Cheers more beers, less injuries.