VQ MODEL P-61 new pics!!
12-20-2004, 05:38 PM
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RE: VQ MODEL P-61 new pics!!
Sorry, did not get my P-61 today. Weather too good in Houston.....was at field all day.
Tee Hee.
Mike at Vq says he also has a few ARC's for the guys, which do not include me, who can really detail one out.
Twinman
Tee Hee.
Mike at Vq says he also has a few ARC's for the guys, which do not include me, who can really detail one out.
Twinman
12-21-2004, 06:30 PM
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RE: VQ MODEL P-61 new pics!!
Twinman,
I just called VQ about availability of the ARC's and managed to resist the impulse buy... for the moment. I won't have a bunch of building time for the next few months but I figure covering and detailing an ARC would keep me occupied when I do have spare time.
Since you have actually flown this bird, here are some questions:
[ul][*] Having successfully thrown my Twin-Air all over the sky this year without incident, and having finally mastered my H9 150 P-51, is the P-61 a reasonable "next step"?[*] What engines would you recommend? I am a big believer in reliability on a twin. I've gotten pretty used to Saitos so a pair of 100's or 120's would be my first thought. I would like to be able to run 3-blade props and have power to spare.[*] Any word on if/when Spring-Air will have retracts ready?
[/ul]
Walt
I just called VQ about availability of the ARC's and managed to resist the impulse buy... for the moment. I won't have a bunch of building time for the next few months but I figure covering and detailing an ARC would keep me occupied when I do have spare time.
Since you have actually flown this bird, here are some questions:
[ul][*] Having successfully thrown my Twin-Air all over the sky this year without incident, and having finally mastered my H9 150 P-51, is the P-61 a reasonable "next step"?[*] What engines would you recommend? I am a big believer in reliability on a twin. I've gotten pretty used to Saitos so a pair of 100's or 120's would be my first thought. I would like to be able to run 3-blade props and have power to spare.[*] Any word on if/when Spring-Air will have retracts ready?
[/ul]
Walt
12-21-2004, 06:43 PM
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RE: VQ MODEL P-61 new pics!!
Walt:
I run Saito FA-120 engines with MAS 14x7 and 14x8 three blade props, they work well. If 14" is good for the P-61 they shoulxd do well there also.
Bill.
I run Saito FA-120 engines with MAS 14x7 and 14x8 three blade props, they work well. If 14" is good for the P-61 they shoulxd do well there also.
Bill.
12-21-2004, 06:48 PM
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RE: VQ MODEL P-61 new pics!!
Full scale P-61's used 4 blade props, so it does not make much sense to use 3 blades. 4-blades that will fly the plane will be way to small to be scale.I think you would be better off to fly with 2 blades, build a nice set of 4-blades for static display.
12-21-2004, 09:02 PM
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RE: VQ MODEL P-61 new pics!!
The prototype flew with ST 90's and 13x7 Master Airscrew props. It flew with very good authority and even more important, flew with one engine and maintained altitude. No, with the only prototype in the world at the time, I did not try any funny stuff, but fly it did. The rudders are VERY effective. I make that statement verses the P-38.....no matter who builds it. In level flight, the rudders would almost turn the plane to a 45 degree angle. When the engine quit, it was almost an non event.....except my heart attack!!!!
It landed lightly without flaps. OK, No guts to add flaps on a plane I am not familiar with, on final, and one engine. Call me wuss!!
Now, before I answer you questions, please answer mine. ( Don't you just hate that!!!).
Do you ALWAYS fly with coordinated control? Meaning using rudder and ailerons AT ALL TIMES? If the answer is no,,,,not good.
Have you flown your twin air and not only stayed in the air, but flown a circuit on one engine? I am not suggesting to do something that you are not comforable with, but answer this for yourself. Flying a twin on one engine takes a lot of nerve and skill.
Do you need that for the P-61 as long as the engines are running. ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! But what if.??????
You have made the commitement to learn twins and my answer IF above is yes, then yes the P-61 is a very stable twin and fantastic in the air looking plane. I guess on the Spring Airs, you would have to talk to VQ. I am not sure...and forgot to ask.
As for three blades verses two. You have the power and three looks fantastic verses two...in my opinion. There is NO concern about ground clearance with 14" and possibly could do 16". You do not need the added thrust of two blads. Yes, VQ is converting one to Gas. You can ask them about that project. They showed it at Bomber field last September, but engine problems have kept it on the ground.
Hope this answers you questions.....OK with a question.
Twinman
PS MINE IS AN ARC. Probably will screw up the covering or find a "BUDDY" to cover it. The thing is so big, it take two boxes to ship it. The boxes are open and a mess started. Temperature in Houston is warm and I am off work till January. Build or fly...Choices choices.
It landed lightly without flaps. OK, No guts to add flaps on a plane I am not familiar with, on final, and one engine. Call me wuss!!
Now, before I answer you questions, please answer mine. ( Don't you just hate that!!!).
Do you ALWAYS fly with coordinated control? Meaning using rudder and ailerons AT ALL TIMES? If the answer is no,,,,not good.
Have you flown your twin air and not only stayed in the air, but flown a circuit on one engine? I am not suggesting to do something that you are not comforable with, but answer this for yourself. Flying a twin on one engine takes a lot of nerve and skill.
Do you need that for the P-61 as long as the engines are running. ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! But what if.??????
You have made the commitement to learn twins and my answer IF above is yes, then yes the P-61 is a very stable twin and fantastic in the air looking plane. I guess on the Spring Airs, you would have to talk to VQ. I am not sure...and forgot to ask.
As for three blades verses two. You have the power and three looks fantastic verses two...in my opinion. There is NO concern about ground clearance with 14" and possibly could do 16". You do not need the added thrust of two blads. Yes, VQ is converting one to Gas. You can ask them about that project. They showed it at Bomber field last September, but engine problems have kept it on the ground.
Hope this answers you questions.....OK with a question.
Twinman
PS MINE IS AN ARC. Probably will screw up the covering or find a "BUDDY" to cover it. The thing is so big, it take two boxes to ship it. The boxes are open and a mess started. Temperature in Houston is warm and I am off work till January. Build or fly...Choices choices.
12-21-2004, 09:18 PM
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RE: VQ MODEL P-61 new pics!!
George:
I always figured the money you spent on airplanes would keep you in a tar paper shack, but I never expected you to post a picture of it.
Haw.
Bill.
I always figured the money you spent on airplanes would keep you in a tar paper shack, but I never expected you to post a picture of it.
Haw.
Bill.
12-21-2004, 10:36 PM
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RE: VQ MODEL P-61 new pics!!
George-
Wow what a response! Since you won't answer my questions until I answer yours (actually you did sort of answer them anyway...)
I always, well just about always, use coordinated rudder and ailerons flying the P-51 because otherwise the tail droops on the turns. But I admit that this is still a pretty "new trick" for me. The rudder on my other planes is pretty much limited to corrections during aerobatics because they all track through turns just fine without it.
I've only lost an engine once on my Twin Air and it was a total non-event. I just pulled the throttle back to 1/2 stick, flew it around to the runway and landed it. I never have figured out how to program my JR radio to drop one of the engines to idle without messing things up, so I haven't actually practiced flying it with a flame-out. But you've given me added incentive to figure out how to program it so that I can.
My only other defense is that I have built quite a reputation at my club for NOT crashing planes. In 2+ years of flying R/C I've only lost one plane, a 4*40 that had a head-on collision with a 35% Staudacher. I've never lost one due to contact with the ground. And I am at the field flying just about every weekend that weather permits.
Lastly, if you want a quick check of my "flying ability" there is a clip of me flying my H9 P-51 on Craig's psk560.com warbird video website.
Whew, I feel like I'm standing in front of judge and jury!
OK, so what do you think?
Walt
Wow what a response! Since you won't answer my questions until I answer yours (actually you did sort of answer them anyway...)
I always, well just about always, use coordinated rudder and ailerons flying the P-51 because otherwise the tail droops on the turns. But I admit that this is still a pretty "new trick" for me. The rudder on my other planes is pretty much limited to corrections during aerobatics because they all track through turns just fine without it.
I've only lost an engine once on my Twin Air and it was a total non-event. I just pulled the throttle back to 1/2 stick, flew it around to the runway and landed it. I never have figured out how to program my JR radio to drop one of the engines to idle without messing things up, so I haven't actually practiced flying it with a flame-out. But you've given me added incentive to figure out how to program it so that I can.
My only other defense is that I have built quite a reputation at my club for NOT crashing planes. In 2+ years of flying R/C I've only lost one plane, a 4*40 that had a head-on collision with a 35% Staudacher. I've never lost one due to contact with the ground. And I am at the field flying just about every weekend that weather permits.
Lastly, if you want a quick check of my "flying ability" there is a clip of me flying my H9 P-51 on Craig's psk560.com warbird video website.
Whew, I feel like I'm standing in front of judge and jury!
OK, so what do you think?
Walt
12-21-2004, 10:51 PM
#35
RE: VQ MODEL P-61 new pics!!
Just listed my complete Ziroli P-61 kit in hopes of selling it and buying the VQ!
>>EDIT to remove references to competetive site. Sorry, not allowed. WLR.
>>EDIT to remove references to competetive site. Sorry, not allowed. WLR.
12-21-2004, 11:06 PM
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RE: VQ MODEL P-61 new pics!!
Build-n-flyer-RCU......now you make me feel like a monster.
If you think I would just go recommend a plane to anyone that I do not know that will end up costing over $1000 to get into the air, you are mistaken. Does it fly MUCH easier than a P-38 and I have owned six...two still flying......when I get the guts to do it.
P-51's are not a big deal if the engine dies. They do not snap roll if the owner is slow to react to an unexpected Yaw, in near level flight. The P-61 is a very easy and stable plane, in my limited experience with it. MUCH Easier than the P-38 due, to me, the longer tail moment, lighter wing loading, and MUCH larger rudders.
Personally I went for it as I had only a taste of the prototype, but I liked what I felt in control.
Go FOR IT!!!! and use three blade props!!
Tee Hee....Sorry TLH101.
See you at the field.
Twinman
PS Mine will be black, but watch out for orientation on approach with that color.
PPS,,, to Bill.....Remind me to NEVER make you mad!!!!!!
If you think I would just go recommend a plane to anyone that I do not know that will end up costing over $1000 to get into the air, you are mistaken. Does it fly MUCH easier than a P-38 and I have owned six...two still flying......when I get the guts to do it.
P-51's are not a big deal if the engine dies. They do not snap roll if the owner is slow to react to an unexpected Yaw, in near level flight. The P-61 is a very easy and stable plane, in my limited experience with it. MUCH Easier than the P-38 due, to me, the longer tail moment, lighter wing loading, and MUCH larger rudders.
Personally I went for it as I had only a taste of the prototype, but I liked what I felt in control.
Go FOR IT!!!! and use three blade props!!
Tee Hee....Sorry TLH101.
See you at the field.
Twinman
PS Mine will be black, but watch out for orientation on approach with that color.
PPS,,, to Bill.....Remind me to NEVER make you mad!!!!!!
12-21-2004, 11:30 PM
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RE: VQ MODEL P-61 new pics!!
George,
Over $1000 to get in the air? Seems more like $2000+ to me!
Based on what you are saying I should be able to fly the plane OK, but an engine out could be a rather exciting event. Which would be true of most any twin beyond the Twin-Air I am flying now.
Oh well, worst case at least the engine(s), radio gear and retracts should be recoverable. And this plane is not a full-build...
I'm thinking seriously about it.
Walt
Over $1000 to get in the air? Seems more like $2000+ to me!
Based on what you are saying I should be able to fly the plane OK, but an engine out could be a rather exciting event. Which would be true of most any twin beyond the Twin-Air I am flying now.
Oh well, worst case at least the engine(s), radio gear and retracts should be recoverable. And this plane is not a full-build...
I'm thinking seriously about it.
Walt
12-22-2004, 12:04 PM
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RE: VQ MODEL P-61 new pics!!
Can you say gas engines and yes, there is clearance for 16" props.
Build-n-flyer-RCU, ok so you are ahead of me on the Northeast Aero twin rudder plane. Job got in way to finish, but here is proof, I did start it....Oh, yes, the black thing in the back ground........Was raining in Houston today...Is one covered wing of the P-61..Naw Naw!!
I was out at the field this morning in between rain showers. (Told you twins make you crazy) and a guy with a three d fun fly had the control horn jump on tooth on the servo.( Spin Man, but I would not name drop). After an amuzing, to me, flight with the rudder offset 1/2" and seeing him being forced to really use rudder, it occured to me. Why would that not be a good training aid for an engine out, without one engine actually dying? While flying, simply move the rudder trim to FULL offset to one direction. The effect would be similar to losing an engine, in that you would have to fly rudder or the plane would snap over.
What do you think,
In Spinman's defense he did get the plane down and looked a little pale.....Tee Hee.
Twinman.
Build-n-flyer-RCU, ok so you are ahead of me on the Northeast Aero twin rudder plane. Job got in way to finish, but here is proof, I did start it....Oh, yes, the black thing in the back ground........Was raining in Houston today...Is one covered wing of the P-61..Naw Naw!!
I was out at the field this morning in between rain showers. (Told you twins make you crazy) and a guy with a three d fun fly had the control horn jump on tooth on the servo.( Spin Man, but I would not name drop). After an amuzing, to me, flight with the rudder offset 1/2" and seeing him being forced to really use rudder, it occured to me. Why would that not be a good training aid for an engine out, without one engine actually dying? While flying, simply move the rudder trim to FULL offset to one direction. The effect would be similar to losing an engine, in that you would have to fly rudder or the plane would snap over.
What do you think,
In Spinman's defense he did get the plane down and looked a little pale.....Tee Hee.
Twinman.
12-22-2004, 01:38 PM
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RE: VQ MODEL P-61 new pics!!
Still thinking about it...
It looks like your T-A is not far off. Pretty wild covering scheme! Hard to believe its been a year now since we worked on the twin-tail design. I've been on the road (weekdays) about 50% of the time this year myself- which is why I bought the P-51 ARF instead of a kit. It looks like more of the same for at least the next several months.
The problem is I have NOTHING on the building board and I am itching to put something together. I've been waiting for John to finish up with the DA 2/60 but to be honest I really won't have time to dedicate to a full-build until maybe later in the year. I don't have any interest in the "mainstream" ARFs that are on the market. The P-61 would be really cool but high $$ and maybe a challenge for me to fly. Decisions, decisions...
I'm gonna sit down and make it a priority to figure out how to program the 8103 to simulate a flame-out. I am sure it is possible, just not obvious.
Gas would scare me on the P-61. I can hardly keep my weed-eater running right and I have no experience with gas airplane engines. This probably would not be the right application to learn on. At least I have gotten pretty good with the Saitos.
It looks like your T-A is not far off. Pretty wild covering scheme! Hard to believe its been a year now since we worked on the twin-tail design. I've been on the road (weekdays) about 50% of the time this year myself- which is why I bought the P-51 ARF instead of a kit. It looks like more of the same for at least the next several months.
The problem is I have NOTHING on the building board and I am itching to put something together. I've been waiting for John to finish up with the DA 2/60 but to be honest I really won't have time to dedicate to a full-build until maybe later in the year. I don't have any interest in the "mainstream" ARFs that are on the market. The P-61 would be really cool but high $$ and maybe a challenge for me to fly. Decisions, decisions...
I'm gonna sit down and make it a priority to figure out how to program the 8103 to simulate a flame-out. I am sure it is possible, just not obvious.
Gas would scare me on the P-61. I can hardly keep my weed-eater running right and I have no experience with gas airplane engines. This probably would not be the right application to learn on. At least I have gotten pretty good with the Saitos.
12-22-2004, 07:02 PM
#43
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RE: VQ MODEL P-61 new pics!!
I'm gonna sit down and make it a priority to figure out how to program the 8103 to simulate a flame-out. I am sure it is possible, just not obvious.
Now that you are aware that I know absolutely NOTHING lets see if the following suggestions will make any sense.
1. Slave the left engine servo (maybe channel #6) to throttle and set slave on/off to a switch on the LEFT side of the transmitter. Off switch drops the left engine to idle.
2. Slave the right engine servo (maybe channel #7) to throttle and set slave on/off to a switch on the RIGHT side of the transmitter. Off switch drops the right engine to idle.
3. Nothing would be plugged into the throttle servo position.
Do you have enough unused channels? Will the above scheme work? I think you will need to be careful about setting the offsets and careful about changing the offsets once set.
Please post your results. Also accept my apologies if meddling in unwanted territory. I have had so much fun simulating flameouts that I couldn’t stop my fingers from typing.
Bill
12-22-2004, 07:12 PM
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RE: VQ MODEL P-61 new pics!!
Bill,
Like I said its not going to be that easy but I'll work on it tonight and let you know how it goes. Now that I have a bunch of incentive...
After agonizing all day long I bit the bullet and ordered a P-61. In the end my wife helped.
Me: Should I order a P-61?
Wife: You mean the big, pretty black plane you showed me?
Me: Yes, it would be a whole bunch of money, and time...
Wife: Buy it. You need it (to stay sane).
Me: What if I'm not good enough to fly it?
Wife: You always say that and haven't had a problem yet.
Case closed.
I hope it arrives before the end of next week! [8D]
Walt
Like I said its not going to be that easy but I'll work on it tonight and let you know how it goes. Now that I have a bunch of incentive...
After agonizing all day long I bit the bullet and ordered a P-61. In the end my wife helped.
Me: Should I order a P-61?
Wife: You mean the big, pretty black plane you showed me?
Me: Yes, it would be a whole bunch of money, and time...
Wife: Buy it. You need it (to stay sane).
Me: What if I'm not good enough to fly it?
Wife: You always say that and haven't had a problem yet.
Case closed.
I hope it arrives before the end of next week! [8D]
Walt
12-22-2004, 07:58 PM
#45
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RE: VQ MODEL P-61 new pics!!
The dialog with the wife is funny. 
Thanks.
She loves you and believes you can do anything. Now you must live up to her expectations but isn’t it always that way?
Bill
Thanks.She loves you and believes you can do anything. Now you must live up to her expectations but isn’t it always that way?
Bill
12-23-2004, 09:57 PM
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RE: VQ MODEL P-61 new pics!!
You mean these?
LP4-11X9
11X9
4 Blade 90 4 cycle
$ 9.95
LP413013
13X13
4 BLADE 120 PATTERN
$ 19.95
LP413810
13.8X10
4 BLADE 120 PATTERN
$ 19.95
LP414511
14.5X11
4 BLADE 140 PATTERN
$ 19.95
LP414512
14.5X12
4 BLADE 140 PATTERN
$ 19.95
LP415011
15X11
4 BLADE 140 PATTERN
$ 19.95
LP415512
15.5X12
4 BLADE 140 PATTERN
$ 19.95
Cool!!!
Twinman
LP4-11X9
11X9
4 Blade 90 4 cycle
$ 9.95
LP413013
13X13
4 BLADE 120 PATTERN
$ 19.95
LP413810
13.8X10
4 BLADE 120 PATTERN
$ 19.95
LP414511
14.5X11
4 BLADE 140 PATTERN
$ 19.95
LP414512
14.5X12
4 BLADE 140 PATTERN
$ 19.95
LP415011
15X11
4 BLADE 140 PATTERN
$ 19.95
LP415512
15.5X12
4 BLADE 140 PATTERN
$ 19.95
Cool!!!
Twinman
12-23-2004, 11:56 PM
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RE: VQ MODEL P-61 new pics!!
I'm glad to hear that the UPS man is doing a good Santa impression for everyone!
To those that use a JR8103, this may be of interest. To the rest I am sure it is absolute Greek, but I figure it will make the Twinman happy to see that I am now prepared for engine-out practice on my Twin-Air.
My program for the TA has the right engine on the throttle channel and the left engine slaved on the Aux 2 channel via mix6. And I am using mix1 on top of this to synchronize the left engine through the range of stick positions. It took a while, but once I got it all tuned in the engines synch just about perfectly all the way through the stick travel.
Today I copied the program and then made some changes. To drop control of the slaved motor I put both of the mix programs on the mix switch. To force the motor to go back to idle I set the sub trim all the way back, then put an offset in mix6 to compensate for the change when the mix is on. I will have to find the right position for the Aux 2 knob, but this setup always brings the slaved motor to just above the idle setting when I hit the switch. If this works well at the field then I can do the same for the right motor by moving it to channel 8 and using mix5 in the same way. Since I am using mix5 for the 2nd rudder I will have to install a Y-harness for the rudders in order to free up the mix- with the 8103 the trims are only active on mixed channels using mix5 and mix6, and I want the trims to work for both the rudders and the engines.
Like I said earlier, possible but not obvious.
Back to the P-61!!
I am not a very fast builder (or coverer/assembler in this case) but I like to FINISH my airplane projects within a reasonable amount of time. So I am already thinking through the list of things to work out.
I am still thinking Saitos. 120's would seem a logical choice but 150's would only weigh a few ounces more... would 150's swing a big enough 4-blade prop?
I like Spring-Air retracts but Shindin is just down the road. Lenny has always been helpful and does good work.
I want to do my plane in black but I may cheat a bit to help visibility. I found a photo of three P-61's flying formation with invasion stripes...
Graphics and decals... I don't even know where to start.
13 servos... I need to find a fire sale! How many (if any) need to be high-torquers?
Wandering around on the web I found that one of the few remaining P-61's is at the Air Force museum in Dayton. I'll be heading to Dayton on a business trip the week after New Years. Sounds like a good opportunity for a visit. Does anybody know if they allow cameras?
Walt
To those that use a JR8103, this may be of interest. To the rest I am sure it is absolute Greek, but I figure it will make the Twinman happy to see that I am now prepared for engine-out practice on my Twin-Air.
My program for the TA has the right engine on the throttle channel and the left engine slaved on the Aux 2 channel via mix6. And I am using mix1 on top of this to synchronize the left engine through the range of stick positions. It took a while, but once I got it all tuned in the engines synch just about perfectly all the way through the stick travel.
Today I copied the program and then made some changes. To drop control of the slaved motor I put both of the mix programs on the mix switch. To force the motor to go back to idle I set the sub trim all the way back, then put an offset in mix6 to compensate for the change when the mix is on. I will have to find the right position for the Aux 2 knob, but this setup always brings the slaved motor to just above the idle setting when I hit the switch. If this works well at the field then I can do the same for the right motor by moving it to channel 8 and using mix5 in the same way. Since I am using mix5 for the 2nd rudder I will have to install a Y-harness for the rudders in order to free up the mix- with the 8103 the trims are only active on mixed channels using mix5 and mix6, and I want the trims to work for both the rudders and the engines.
Like I said earlier, possible but not obvious.
Back to the P-61!!
I am not a very fast builder (or coverer/assembler in this case) but I like to FINISH my airplane projects within a reasonable amount of time. So I am already thinking through the list of things to work out.
I am still thinking Saitos. 120's would seem a logical choice but 150's would only weigh a few ounces more... would 150's swing a big enough 4-blade prop?
I like Spring-Air retracts but Shindin is just down the road. Lenny has always been helpful and does good work.
I want to do my plane in black but I may cheat a bit to help visibility. I found a photo of three P-61's flying formation with invasion stripes...
Graphics and decals... I don't even know where to start.
13 servos... I need to find a fire sale! How many (if any) need to be high-torquers?
Wandering around on the web I found that one of the few remaining P-61's is at the Air Force museum in Dayton. I'll be heading to Dayton on a business trip the week after New Years. Sounds like a good opportunity for a visit. Does anybody know if they allow cameras?
Walt