seems like aerotech could get around that by just leaving the name off.
The plane is definitely not an exact reproduction:
(like the movies: any resemblance to characters/places is by coincidence)
quote from rcwarbird.com:
'Why is DJ Aerotech going to discontinue the P-38 and Electra?
In November 2001 we were approached by EMI, a company hired by Lockheed-Martin to administer their trademark licensing program for them, regarding our Roadkill Series P-38 kit. It is Lockheed-Martin's policy that ANYONE (no exceptions) must be properly licensed by them to legally make models of any of their aircraft, including the ancestor companies such as (but not limited to) Lockheed, Martin, General Dynamics, Convair, or Consolidated.

We had the choice of either discontinuing the P-38 kit, or obtaining a license. During the negotiations, we were told of various benefits to us that being license holders would include.

We decided to try it their way, and invest in a 3-year license. The cost was a token amount for them, although it was not a token amount for a tiny company like ours. Still, if the benefits outlined to us were real, it would be a worthwhile investment.

To make a long and painful story short, the benefits did not materialize to any significant extent. In addition, they are now (December 2004) insisting on a much bigger cost (from our point of view, but not in their eyes) for renewal of the agreement. Given that the real benefits we experienced fell well short of what we'd been led to expect, and did not even justify our original investment, we simply cannot renew at anything even close to the proposed terms. There are plenty of other kit subjects from companies that do not subject us to this sort of treatment.

We do have a few remaining of the two kits that are subject to this license. We are discontinuing production and sales of our Roadkill Series Lockheed P-38 and Model 10 Electra, effective either 12-31-04 or when the existing inventory of these kits runs out, whichever comes first. If you want one, better get it quick, once they're gone, there will not be any more.

As far as the other Lockheed-Martin related kits we had in development, some Roadkill Series, some bigger, and some giant scale, those will never see the outside of my computer.

We're sorry to have to take this position, but they have really left us with no real choice.'

I'm sure that its pointed out in the movie, (which I have not seen yet) Mr. Hughes
developed, built, flew & crashed the prototype for the P-38. Would the afore
mentioned restrictions include this earlier design? (I believe there was quite a
cat fight way back when, over this.) I'm thinking it would carry the spirit of the 38,
while possibly not being too costly to "re-tool" for this version.

Pretty thin, I know, but a thought.

The whole thing stinks. Bitter pill, I'm sure...
Keep your chin up.

Johnny C!

Jonny C.

Just to let you know, the airplane Howard Hughes flew was not the P-38. Lockheed should still be ashamed.

John

Are you saying that any company that replicates a Lockheed design is subject to this? Any company who makes, say, a P-38? That's just unbelieveable! And a bit chikens**t, too! Good grief.

Al

Thats my point, it was pre P-38... but looked very similar to the
production aircraft. Maybe a way around this for DJ Aerotech ?

Johnny C!

John:

Sorry sir. The P-38 was under development before we got into the second war, 1939 or so. Hughes' recon bird started its development in 1942 or 1943. I think it was 1943. It definitely did not predate the P-38.

Just as a side note, the P-38 was all metal, the Hughes airplane was molded plywood. Similar to the deHavilland Mosquito in being wooden, but the processes were very different.

Bill.

OK, My history is failing me...My point is, since the Hughes bird was
similar in looks to the P-38, DJ Aerotech could kit these...

I'll go back to doing what I do best... If I can remember what that was...[]

William, I still have not flown my 1/2A'ish B-25. Waiting on EDF to wain a little more...

Johnny C!

John:

The P-38, the P-61, and the XF-11 were all twin boomed planes, beyond that they are very much different. You might see the cockpit pod on the XF-11 and say P-38, but I see the radial engines and say P-61.

Here are three pictures of the XF-11, and some artist's drawings with a 3-view and specifications.

Incidentally, each engine on the XF-11 was bigger than the P-38's two engines conbined. The P-38 had two 1710 Alisons, the XF-11 had two P&W R-4360 engines.

Bill.

Does everyone who produce P-38's have to pay this? There are a lot of P-38's made out there.

Thanks for the pics & the lesson!

Johnny C!

If a warbird was designed and sold to the US which means we all paid taxes on it somewhere in our family heritage, and said plane is an icon of military history it should become part and parcel of the public domain! If lockheed pursues this course of action perhaps we should all band together and write our congressmen to vote against any procurement contracts with this greedy, warmonging company! Long live the hobby!!!

cant you just either rename the plane or modify it with some appendage that could be cutoff if you wanted it to be a p38? for instance, a 3rd vert stab or make it a tail dragger. How much different does it have to be to not be considered a p38? Anyone know?

I don't think they trademark'd the name "Lightning" So, just drop using "Lockheed" and "P-38"
That should get around their silly games.

I understand Great Planes had the same problem with Lockheed on their small P-38. seems they claim the name Lightning as their own. it does bring up intresting legal questions. while it(full size plane) was paid for with taxpayer monies, it was developed &produced by a private company by their engineers to meet a government specification.

Tig:

Great Planes has avoided the use of "P-38," "Lockheed," and "Lightning." What they have done is simply call their plane the "Profile 38" allowing us to read it as "P-38."

Bill.

It will be interesting to see what happens when Lockheed takes the Asian Arf Manufacturers into the International Courts to Prove their case of Infringement... I'll bet the defendants don't even show up. Their credibility is showing when it comes to offshore legalistic bull.

Doug:

Whether or not Lockheed can succeed in international claims, they can still keep the Asian products out of the USA.

Bill.

Quite possibly so, Bill...

No disrespect ment though I don't really care if they do or do not. There are many other much better scale subjects out there to build and fly. Though am sure that there are many who would love to have a 38 in the hanger. I do have a 94 in. version particially built on the back bench, that may or may not ever get to see the light of day now, maybe just use it for kindling in the fire place now that I know Lockheeds attitude about it.

"May the Bird of Paridise fly up their nose!"

If Kelly Johnson was still around..........bet they'd have alittle different take on the situation.......Bill......

I'm just curious....Is AMA going to do anything about this problem?????..What are the odds?

Look at the company that approched them. Most of these people had nothing to do with the product in the first place. They buy old trademarks for a very low fee and then make mega dollars out of them. Happened here recently when a company in the US registered the name (UGG) boot and then tried to shut every one down over here who have been making them since the late 40's. Now the company that done this don't make anything all they do is regester names of stuff and then make money out of it.

Cheers

Hi guys the subject is running on several other boards now. I have set up a page to start compiling letters, contact info etc etc

http://davidroberts.biz/E-blog.htm

I will add a link to this thread as well

Email submissions to be put on this page to:

[email protected]

Fight the good fight !!