KMP F-7F Tigercat
08-11-2007, 09:09 PM
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RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat
Now that we're talking servos... I have some Fut 9304's I though to use on the Flaps (70 in oz) and us teh Hitech hs 5955 tg in the rudder, elev and ailerons.
And you guys?
And you guys?
08-11-2007, 09:31 PM
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RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat
CHASRB, PAUL KONDOR OF KMP TOLD ME AT THE TOLEDO SHOW THEY USED STANDARD FUTABA 45 OZ. IN. SERVOS IN THE PROTOTYPE T-CAT IN THE VIDEO THAT'S BEEN FLOATING AROUND ON THE NET. I'M USING HITEC 645'S ON THE ALERONS, RUDDER, NOSE GEAR, AND ELEVATORS, FUTABA 3003'S ON THE FLAPS, THROTTLES, AND AIR VALVE FOR THE RETRACTS.
08-13-2007, 06:18 PM
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RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat
I do it all the time and it's on the bench! Is there any work on the strength of the center section (the wing tubes do not meet) and are there any reports of it folding up?
08-13-2007, 07:33 PM
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RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat
CHASRB, I HAVEN'T DONE ANY MODS, AND I HAVEN'T READ ANY POSTS OF CENTER SECTION FAILURE. THE GENTLEMAN IN TIAWAN THAT POSTED HIS FLIGHT SAID HIS BIRD WAS 28 LBS. AND NO STRUCTURIAL ISSUES. LET'S HOPE KMP DID THEIR HOMEWORK IN THIS AREA....
READ HIS POSTS ON THE OTHER T-CAT BUILD THREAD P.7 THREADS 122, 123, 124, 125, 129, AND 130.
READ HIS POSTS ON THE OTHER T-CAT BUILD THREAD P.7 THREADS 122, 123, 124, 125, 129, AND 130.
08-13-2007, 07:47 PM
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RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat
ORIGINAL: VKerster
N215, HERE'S SOME PICS OF THE 4-40 ROD PULL PULL SETUP.
N215, HERE'S SOME PICS OF THE 4-40 ROD PULL PULL SETUP.
V no binding on the 4-40's? I bought to sets of 48 in GP rods to do like you have.
I am also going with the Sullivan 557's (a pair l/r) for control horns and I am painting the with the insignia blue. I did a test pain and it almost disapears on the flap!
08-13-2007, 08:12 PM
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RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat
CHASRB, THE FACTORY INSTALLD TUBES DO HAVE SOMEWHAT OF AN ARC TO THEM [LOOK INSIDE THE FUSE], I DID HAVE TO TWEAK THEM VERY SLIGHTLY, EDUCATED GUESSTIMATION. THEY DO WORK WELL... THE SAME WITH THE RUDDER RODS.
08-13-2007, 08:23 PM
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RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat
Hi, I received a CAD drawing from Andrew Knodor that he stated it came from the factory in China. I could not see any evidence in the simple CAD line drawing that gave me anything but more questions. There are no connections that I can tell between the wing tubes and the center section. The two root ribs connected buy the two pieces of ply wood for the wing bolts. I cant see a spar with a diehedral brace any where. I have asked andrew for a photo of the internal structure under the composet sheeting and fiberglass. If there is any there that would be good. But i still wonder about the wing sleve that the wing tube goes through? The sleve is only butt joined to the root ribs and in high stress manuvers the wing could fold and push the tube out of the bottom of the wing like one would break a stick over ones knee. I need more info.
08-13-2007, 10:58 PM
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RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat
Hey Guys,
I thought I'd jump in here to put in my two cents worth about control systems and servos for the T-cat...
I modified mine to have all internal linkages - I used a nose steering arm and pull-pull cables for the rudder since the fuse is nice and wide - even at the tail end, I have NO clearance issues and am using a 5955TG on the rudder.
On the elevators, I made a 5/32" wire joiner, (just like a control line airplane but heavier duty), and then used a carbon fiber rod from Central Hobbies (made for Pattern boys) and put it all on a nice HD digital servo from Hitec to operate it.
Yes, things will get mighty interesting if I EVER have to try to get back there to fix or adjust, but it is SO nice to look at - and that's why we bought these beauties, right? I just couldn't bring myself to do it the exposed factory way.
In closing, I think the issue with the 635/645 Hitec is correct.... I have a bunch of them that I used on a couple of different birds, and they were so bad, I sent 'em back for repair - but they all came back "fine". I won't use ANYTHING with a carbonite gear again. Those things strip out just by looking at 'em. Pay a couple of bucks more and go digital - it will change the way you (and your planes) fly!
I will post pics of my mods ASAP. Looks like I'm behind most of you on the build time-line.
I REALLY appreciate the gear door pics - you guys are awesome!
See Ya,
F82FAN
I thought I'd jump in here to put in my two cents worth about control systems and servos for the T-cat...
I modified mine to have all internal linkages - I used a nose steering arm and pull-pull cables for the rudder since the fuse is nice and wide - even at the tail end, I have NO clearance issues and am using a 5955TG on the rudder.
On the elevators, I made a 5/32" wire joiner, (just like a control line airplane but heavier duty), and then used a carbon fiber rod from Central Hobbies (made for Pattern boys) and put it all on a nice HD digital servo from Hitec to operate it.
Yes, things will get mighty interesting if I EVER have to try to get back there to fix or adjust, but it is SO nice to look at - and that's why we bought these beauties, right? I just couldn't bring myself to do it the exposed factory way.
In closing, I think the issue with the 635/645 Hitec is correct.... I have a bunch of them that I used on a couple of different birds, and they were so bad, I sent 'em back for repair - but they all came back "fine". I won't use ANYTHING with a carbonite gear again. Those things strip out just by looking at 'em. Pay a couple of bucks more and go digital - it will change the way you (and your planes) fly!
I will post pics of my mods ASAP. Looks like I'm behind most of you on the build time-line.
I REALLY appreciate the gear door pics - you guys are awesome!
See Ya,
F82FAN
08-14-2007, 04:57 AM
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RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat
ORIGINAL: F82FAN
Hey Guys,
I thought I'd jump in here to put in my two cents worth about control systems and servos for the T-cat...
I modified mine to have all internal linkages - I used a nose steering arm and pull-pull cables for the rudder since the fuse is nice and wide - even at the tail end, I have NO clearance issues and am using a 5955TG on the rudder.
On the elevators, I made a 5/32" wire joiner, (just like a control line airplane but heavier duty), and then used a carbon fiber rod from Central Hobbies (made for Pattern boys) and put it all on a nice HD digital servo from Hitec to operate it.
Yes, things will get mighty interesting if I EVER have to try to get back there to fix or adjust, but it is SO nice to look at - and that's why we bought these beauties, right? I just couldn't bring myself to do it the exposed factory way.
In closing, I think the issue with the 635/645 Hitec is correct.... I have a bunch of them that I used on a couple of different birds, and they were so bad, I sent 'em back for repair - but they all came back "fine". I won't use ANYTHING with a carbonite gear again. Those things strip out just by looking at 'em. Pay a couple of bucks more and go digital - it will change the way you (and your planes) fly!
I will post pics of my mods ASAP. Looks like I'm behind most of you on the build time-line.
I REALLY appreciate the gear door pics - you guys are awesome!
See Ya,
F82FAN
Hey Guys,
I thought I'd jump in here to put in my two cents worth about control systems and servos for the T-cat...
I modified mine to have all internal linkages - I used a nose steering arm and pull-pull cables for the rudder since the fuse is nice and wide - even at the tail end, I have NO clearance issues and am using a 5955TG on the rudder.
On the elevators, I made a 5/32" wire joiner, (just like a control line airplane but heavier duty), and then used a carbon fiber rod from Central Hobbies (made for Pattern boys) and put it all on a nice HD digital servo from Hitec to operate it.
Yes, things will get mighty interesting if I EVER have to try to get back there to fix or adjust, but it is SO nice to look at - and that's why we bought these beauties, right? I just couldn't bring myself to do it the exposed factory way.
In closing, I think the issue with the 635/645 Hitec is correct.... I have a bunch of them that I used on a couple of different birds, and they were so bad, I sent 'em back for repair - but they all came back "fine". I won't use ANYTHING with a carbonite gear again. Those things strip out just by looking at 'em. Pay a couple of bucks more and go digital - it will change the way you (and your planes) fly!
I will post pics of my mods ASAP. Looks like I'm behind most of you on the build time-line.
I REALLY appreciate the gear door pics - you guys are awesome!
See Ya,
F82FAN
By the way, I used to live in Cypress, went to Cy-Fair back when 290 was only a 4 lane red top hiway!
08-15-2007, 12:49 PM
#286
RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat
Hello,
I am also buidling a KMP tigercat with hidden control surfaces but I am quite a but behind you as my plane just arrived last week. I read your post with great interest as I am just now working on consealed function for the flaps and just strating to think about the elevators. I was thinking about using low profile digital servos embedded in the horizontal stab but I have heard these planes build tail heavy anyway and I didn't want to make that worse. Your appraoch seems like a good one. Did you remove those two pushrod tubes in the side of the fuse? I would like to but I need to feel confident that I can match the paint. It isn't so much matching the color as it is understanding what type of paint and clear coat to use that will be compatible with the current finish. I have asked Paul at KMP for this info and will share it when I receive it. This is really a reqirement for me since I also have a crack in the fuse that need repair.
Thanks for your info and ideas
Take care
I am also buidling a KMP tigercat with hidden control surfaces but I am quite a but behind you as my plane just arrived last week. I read your post with great interest as I am just now working on consealed function for the flaps and just strating to think about the elevators. I was thinking about using low profile digital servos embedded in the horizontal stab but I have heard these planes build tail heavy anyway and I didn't want to make that worse. Your appraoch seems like a good one. Did you remove those two pushrod tubes in the side of the fuse? I would like to but I need to feel confident that I can match the paint. It isn't so much matching the color as it is understanding what type of paint and clear coat to use that will be compatible with the current finish. I have asked Paul at KMP for this info and will share it when I receive it. This is really a reqirement for me since I also have a crack in the fuse that need repair.
Thanks for your info and ideas
Take care
08-16-2007, 10:37 AM
#287
RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat
I received an email from Paul yesterday in response to my question about the paint used on the Tigercat.
The email simply states:
"The paint on the exterior is an epoxy type paint. That’s what the factory has told me."
I guess I was hoping for a bit more detail but there ya go.
Has anyone on the thread actualy shot paint on their KMP TC yet? If so I would like to understand what paint was used and what the results were.
Thanks!
The email simply states:
"The paint on the exterior is an epoxy type paint. That’s what the factory has told me."
I guess I was hoping for a bit more detail but there ya go.
Has anyone on the thread actualy shot paint on their KMP TC yet? If so I would like to understand what paint was used and what the results were.
Thanks!
08-16-2007, 11:00 AM
#288
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RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat
Just to add some detail...
Sometimes the factory's responses are not easily understood by us, nor us by them.
The paint is epoxy based, and in general you want a 'flex' type paint. Here at the shop, we use SEM elastomeric 'Classic Coat' paint. Any epoxy based flex paint should work without any problems. You want a flex type paint because the elastomeric content prevents it from chipping when it is stressed.
Its not easy to say to the factory: what brand of clear coat do they use, because the brands over there are not the same as the ones here, which makes it difficult.
What I can say is that we are going to be getting a batch of the tigercat paint made up in the near future (basically as soon as I get another Tigercat up here to Canada), and we'll match it, and then sell it to customers in need of some touch up paint.
Sometimes the factory's responses are not easily understood by us, nor us by them.
The paint is epoxy based, and in general you want a 'flex' type paint. Here at the shop, we use SEM elastomeric 'Classic Coat' paint. Any epoxy based flex paint should work without any problems. You want a flex type paint because the elastomeric content prevents it from chipping when it is stressed.
Its not easy to say to the factory: what brand of clear coat do they use, because the brands over there are not the same as the ones here, which makes it difficult.
What I can say is that we are going to be getting a batch of the tigercat paint made up in the near future (basically as soon as I get another Tigercat up here to Canada), and we'll match it, and then sell it to customers in need of some touch up paint.
08-16-2007, 11:07 AM
#289
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RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat
A couple more comments:
I did not, as one customer has posted, recommend any particular brand or type of servo. I merely said that most of the servos required need not exceed standard torque.
We have never had any reports of a center section failure of any type. That said, there is a tendency by many to over engine these aircraft. It only requires a pair of .91's, it does not need 2 x 1.60 equivalents, although it seems many are putting them in anyways. This adds weight, which adds stress. I know that there are several people already flying theirs, and no one, to my knowledge, not here, not with YT, not with Eurolight or modelflight.com.au has ever experienced a center section failure. I have never heard of one. If it has ever happened, I have not heard of it, and I probably would have.
I did not, as one customer has posted, recommend any particular brand or type of servo. I merely said that most of the servos required need not exceed standard torque.
We have never had any reports of a center section failure of any type. That said, there is a tendency by many to over engine these aircraft. It only requires a pair of .91's, it does not need 2 x 1.60 equivalents, although it seems many are putting them in anyways. This adds weight, which adds stress. I know that there are several people already flying theirs, and no one, to my knowledge, not here, not with YT, not with Eurolight or modelflight.com.au has ever experienced a center section failure. I have never heard of one. If it has ever happened, I have not heard of it, and I probably would have.
08-16-2007, 12:38 PM
#290
RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat
Thanks Paul!
That detail really helps!
Since I am so early in the build process I would be happy to send you back some parts of my TC if that would help you to get the paint going. Just let me know what parts you need and I will ship them to you ASAP. You can reach me directly at [email protected]
Regards,
That detail really helps!
Since I am so early in the build process I would be happy to send you back some parts of my TC if that would help you to get the paint going. Just let me know what parts you need and I will ship them to you ASAP. You can reach me directly at [email protected]
Regards,
08-16-2007, 04:42 PM
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RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat
PAUL, SOME OF US T-CAT BUILDERS ARE ALMOST FINISHED WITH OUR BIRDS AND ARE FINDING THIS BIRD NEEDS AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF NOSE WEIGHT TO BALANCE PER THE C.G. DIM. IN THE MANUAL. SEE THE OTHER T-CAT BUILD FORUM ( MULTI ENGINE FORUM) P.7 POSTS 122,123,124,125,129,AND 130. (5 + LBS. IN THIS THREAD) AS I'VE STATED IN EARILER THREADS, I'M USING 2 ZENOAH G-26'S AND A 3000MAH. BATTERY FORWARD OF THE FRONT BULKHEAD AND THE PLANE STILL COMES OUT TAIL HEAVY, AND WITH THE LANDING GEAR IN THE RETRACTED POSITION, IT'S EVEN MORE TAIL HEAVY. I'VE CHOSE TO USE "LIVE" WEIGHT (ENGINES) INSTEAD OF "DEAD" WEIGHT (LEAD). THE LOGIC HERE IS WEIGHT IS WEIGHT AND THE PLANE HAS TO BALANCE, SO THE QUESTION IS: ARE THE G-26'S TOO MUCH, OR IS THE .91'S RECOMMENDED TOO LITTLE, SINCE LIGHTER ENGINES WILL REQUIRE MORE NOSE WEIGHT IN THE FORM OF LEAD, ETC., ANYWAY? HOW MUCH NOSE WEIGHT DID YOU FOLKS AT KMP USE WITH THE .91'S ON THE PROTOTYPE T-CAT?
08-20-2007, 03:09 AM
#292
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RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat
The prototype using two RCV 91CD's came out at 22lb dry weight, I mounted the battery (4.8v 2000mah) in the nose along with 12oz of lead.
08-20-2007, 11:25 AM
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RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat
Hello there KMP T-bird builders,
Anyone think about powering the twin with the SP series engines from RCV?
Who has any experience with these engines?
Because they are geared engines (ratio 2:1) you supposed to turn big props on those....
see you...
another T-bird builder awaiting his bird...
Ton
Anyone think about powering the twin with the SP series engines from RCV?
Who has any experience with these engines?
Because they are geared engines (ratio 2:1) you supposed to turn big props on those....
see you...
another T-bird builder awaiting his bird...
Ton
08-20-2007, 04:07 PM
#294
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RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat
KFLYER, IT WOULD APPEAR THE PRODUCTION MODEL IS OF A DIFFERENT FEATHER, OBIOVSLY A MUCH HEAVIER FUSE (TAIL), OR THE C.G. POINT IN THE PROTOTYPE IS AT A DIFFERENT LOCATION. OTHER T-CAT OWNERS, HOW ABOUT YOUR INPUT?
08-20-2007, 05:51 PM
#295
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RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat
I have used the rcv engine 90 in a B25 and its a great engine with very good sound. I am debating on the rcv 90 - 130- and the Saito Radial 170. The Sp series would have to swing a very large prop due to the gear reduction.
08-20-2007, 06:42 PM
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RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat
Vkerster,
After reading this thread I think some things are fairly obvious.
The kit sold is not the same as the prototype. Maybe the same in shape, but the construction is different.
It seems no one at the factory or here ever built and flew a model FROM THE KIT before offering it for sale.
If they had how could they sell a kit with the wrong size tanks, poor hardware, missing support for some horns, upside down tank supports, gear that does not retract fully into the plane without modifications, blistering paint, and legs that wobble under the weight of the model? (Ask Big Retracts).
From the video the prototype model flew well, but that's not the same plane you get when you buy the kit.
I applaud their wanting to bring a beautiful model to life, but not the seeming lack of engineering follow through.
After reading this thread I think some things are fairly obvious.
The kit sold is not the same as the prototype. Maybe the same in shape, but the construction is different.
It seems no one at the factory or here ever built and flew a model FROM THE KIT before offering it for sale.
If they had how could they sell a kit with the wrong size tanks, poor hardware, missing support for some horns, upside down tank supports, gear that does not retract fully into the plane without modifications, blistering paint, and legs that wobble under the weight of the model? (Ask Big Retracts).
From the video the prototype model flew well, but that's not the same plane you get when you buy the kit.
I applaud their wanting to bring a beautiful model to life, but not the seeming lack of engineering follow through.
ORIGINAL: VKerster
KFLYER, IT WOULD APPEAR THE PRODUCTION MODEL IS OF A DIFFERENT FEATHER, OBIOVSLY A MUCH HEAVIER FUSE (TAIL), OR THE C.G. POINT IN THE PROTOTYPE IS AT A DIFFERENT LOCATION. OTHER T-CAT OWNERS, HOW ABOUT YOUR INPUT?
KFLYER, IT WOULD APPEAR THE PRODUCTION MODEL IS OF A DIFFERENT FEATHER, OBIOVSLY A MUCH HEAVIER FUSE (TAIL), OR THE C.G. POINT IN THE PROTOTYPE IS AT A DIFFERENT LOCATION. OTHER T-CAT OWNERS, HOW ABOUT YOUR INPUT?
08-20-2007, 07:22 PM
#297
RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat
Hello fellow cat builders,
I'm using the RCV 90SP engines, hoping the stock tanks are going to give at least 10 minutes flight times with reserves. The hardware is of poor quality, and have given me problems from the start. So far KMP has taken the stand of supporting us who buy their products, but if these birds bubble up in the sun there's no touch up paint that will satisfy me! It's obvious that the instructions are sub-standard, but I'm holding out hope that the bird fies well! I have learned alot from reading the post's by all of you, but I'm still puzzled on wether or not to install the gear doors on the mains? I'm not going to shim up the gear as I believe it would only make the gear more likely to rip out on a hard landing. Shy of getting quality retracts from Sierra any suggestions on the stock gear and doors.
Cory
I'm using the RCV 90SP engines, hoping the stock tanks are going to give at least 10 minutes flight times with reserves. The hardware is of poor quality, and have given me problems from the start. So far KMP has taken the stand of supporting us who buy their products, but if these birds bubble up in the sun there's no touch up paint that will satisfy me! It's obvious that the instructions are sub-standard, but I'm holding out hope that the bird fies well! I have learned alot from reading the post's by all of you, but I'm still puzzled on wether or not to install the gear doors on the mains? I'm not going to shim up the gear as I believe it would only make the gear more likely to rip out on a hard landing. Shy of getting quality retracts from Sierra any suggestions on the stock gear and doors.
Cory
08-20-2007, 07:37 PM
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RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat
Well..........i agree with you.......the instructions are really poor. On the gear....i'm gonna cut out enough for gear to retract......my thoughts are..........look at the size of that open wheel well.......lot's of drag. On engines.....I ordered and recieved 2 new G26's.....after reading Paul's post.............i'm gonna put 2 .91 4 strokes on her instead. My general thought on the whole kit is that they stopped short on it.........the hinges are a disaster......they should have done that in assembly......I thinkn it will fly well though. I'm kinda dissapointed in the kit for that money.......i'm gonna think hard before buying any others till they are well hammered out with the bugs.
08-20-2007, 08:26 PM
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RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat
N21, AFTER WORKING ON THE T-CAT FOR A WHILE, I DECIDED TO GO TOTALLY INSTINCTIVE ON FINISHING THIS BIRD. AFTER WEARING MANY HATS (ENGINEER, MACHINIST, ETC.), I'M ABOUT 95% DONE, WORKING ON THE RADIO GEAR. EACH TIME YOU TURN THE PAGE OF THE MANUAL, TAKE A DEEP BREATH AND KEEP YOUR MIND OPEN,AND DON'T SHELVE THE G-26'S JUST YET,UNLESS YOU PLAN ON USING LOTS[X(] OF LEAD TO BALANCE YOUR BIRD............
08-20-2007, 08:39 PM
#300
RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat
Good point about the drag on the open gear bays. If we servo operate them it might cause trouble for the fail safe spring down gear in an air pressure failure. Maybe a simple cut out for the gear to poke through might not be a bad idea, it's simple enough.
Cory
Cory