RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"
 

Second series

The patient was anaesthetized and the scalpel was put at work:D

RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"
 

And the last one

The nose gear retract was mounted on a ply support frame bolted to the firewall. The battery (4,8V 500mah) for the retracts is mounted at the side of the ply frame. The whole thing is offset a little bit, so that the front tire is in the centerline of the fuselage. There is room above the retract for the receiver battery, but it was not necessary to mount it in the nose, it balances at CG 100 mm with the receiver battery just behind the aluminium wing tube (6V 2500 mah). The use of 4 strokes with the carburator behind the cilinder made the spinner come out to far from the cowls. An 8mm space was visible, so a balsa spacer was glued to the cowl to fill the gap and some car body filler was used to smoot things out.

RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"
 

Hi fgpierce....was actually 3rd or 4th flight since the repair. I lucked out with the covering...had some leftover white monokote that was a perfect match. My next door neighbor just built a plane and covered it with the same torquoise as the DA and he had some scraps of that, and the dark blue, I had some leftover that was,..uh.....close enough :D

RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"
 

Merlin,..that really looks great....now that I feel confident enough that I can keep this plane in one piece, I really want to install retracts too.

RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"
 

Kewl! It's a satisfying feeling to see a bird fly that's had it's wing clipped.
Glad to hear you could get some of the turquoise. I used the mono white myself.
I found that when I applied blue Painters masking tape over the stripes I could peel them off without damaging them. I reapplied them and removed the masking tape. A little heat and good as new. I'm just curious what the covering was your friend had. Can you find out?

RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"
 

Hey MerlinII

I've never seen retacts like that before. Who sells them? I can do a web search if you aren't sure. They sure look like a nice way to get the wheels up!
My next question would be that I noticed you don't seem to be using any sort of reinforcement for the retracts to attach to. The nose gear looks strong. But I can't see any ply on the mains? Is it possible this style retract spreads the landing stresses differently?
It would be interesting to find out what the total flying weight is.
Nice, neat job!

RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"
 

thanks fgpierce and crashpro

There is reinforcement on the mains, i simply forgot to take pictures:eek:. I did not use a ply plate to mount the main retracts but two hardwood spars supported by two ply ribs glued between the existing full length wing ribs (see the quick small drawing scan). I think the oleo leggs also take a great deal of the landing stresses. The plane will be weighted on the next first occasion.
The aluminium tape on the mains is temporarily and because the retracts seem to hold up fine, this area will be filled with balsa to the same height as the wing skin and monokote will be applied.

As for the retracts, the manufacturer email:
Contact GIEZENDANNER-TECHNIK
Ifangstrasse 5
CH-8335 Hittnau
Switzerland

Fax. 41 1 - 950 47 97
Tel. 41 1 - 950 42 64
Mail: [email protected]

Or more info: http://www.rewomodell.de/ (click on the Elektronik tab)
Pricelist : http://www.rewomodell.de/PreisGiez2002.pdf

RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"
 

He just happened to pick out the same color that Seagull models chose....Ultracote HANU898 Turquoise...heres all the colors
Trim Scheme Colors: Deep Blue (HANU873), Turquoise (HANU898), White (HANU870)

RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"
 

Thats great MerlinII. I do feel better now! I was concerned that maybe you might not have a pleasant experience with your first touchdown. I was also concerned that I didn't want to offend you by criticizing your efforts. That said....

Thats a nice way to be able to insert retracts into a finished wing. I had to remove a fairly large section of sheeting to be able to insert the ply plate and rib reinforcements. Lets not overlook all the recovering you didn't have to do. And as a bonus you don't have to worry about air leaks.

Like I said ... Nice, neat job. Great choice![sm=thumbup.gif]

RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"
 

Crashpro thanks for getting the info for me. I like working with ultracote to boot. As your well aware out here in socal it gets mighty hard on covering in the sun even in storage they'll bubble and wrinkle! I find Monokote to be most supceptable even using a "woodpecker". With you being in Indio I'm sure it's even hotter. But it's a dry heat;).

Have you ever flown at Gilman Springs RC field http://www.gilmanspringsrcflyers.com/GSframeset1.htm .
Where do you fly? Maybe we could get together some time?

RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"
 

Got to tell you guys I took my DA for its maiden flight yesterday morning. Had about a half dozen guys at the field, a couple who made a special trip to see the thing. It was beautiful. Straight down the runway, nice lift off......flew quite stable and actually was a little slower than I was anticipating (which was a good thing). I have 2 LA-40s in it as they were already on hand. Nice landing.....beautiful approach, but ballooned up a little bit when attempting to flare, partly because I was landing it faster than what I do for my other planes. Did NOT want to stall the thing. Nice touchdown, however. Turned around and taxied back with both engines still running. Had the elevator throw set for about half way between the recommended setting for first flight and stunt maneuvers. Might reduce it just a little before the next flight. Balance point was set at 105 mm back, which if you calculate it out, falls right on what I am told is the the MAC...... or Mean Aerodynamic Cord. The plane's total weight with out fuel is 10 1/2 pounds. I managed to get the weight down by moving all the servos to the front of the cabin (and the smaller engines probably helped a bit also). To facilitate the servo move I had to take the factory pushrods out and replaced them with golden rod. I ended up adding 8 ounces of lead up in the nose cone plus the battery ( a regular 4 cell 600) building a little bracket like the one I saw in this thread early on. Before moving the servos the thing wanted a pound in the nose to put the balance point at 90mm which I just did not want to do....so between moving the servos forward and the cg backward I got it down to 8 ounces.

Nice airplane. I am very pleased.

Ted

RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"
 

Hi fgpierce

I haven't flown at Gilman Springs, but I think few of our club members go up there now and then. Its about an hour from here.
Our field is in Coachella. I arrived at the field at 5:45am this morning to beat the heat, (it was 102 degrees by 8am
today) and had the field all to myself for 3 hours before anybody else showed up. I strapped the wireless camera to my Xtra easy and buzzed the runway a few times. Heres some footage of that. http://home.dc.rr.com/maurie/FieldAbove.wmv
I burned 3/4 of a gallon of fuel before anybody else arrived....yeehaaw that was fun.
If you're ever going to be in the area...let me know...I'll give you directions to the field.

George

RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"
 

Congratulations on the maiden flight Ted 1...this really is a great airplane.

RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"
 

O.K. here is a question.
I want to set my motor thrust on my DA(I have installed electric motors). I have never owned a twin engine plane before so I need some help. On a single engined plane I would simply use the motor thrust line...no problem. So you say why don't I just attach the electric motor mount to the DA's firewall and go from there? Well I did and the motor seems to be at about 10 degrees down thrust......NO Good huh?:)

I am using a laser incidence finder and I am using the horizontal stab as my zero to the finder. The Stab on the DA is minus 2 degrees down thrust. I set the finder to Zero (which is really two degrees negative stab)and then attached the finder to my motor prop shaft. As a starting point I want to use 2 degrees down and three degrees right on each motor(suggestions ?).

My question is concerning the negative incidence in the stab on my measurements. Being the stab is being used as the "zero"...do I include the 2 degree negative from the stab as the two degree negative I want in the motor? In other words when the motor is lined with the finder @ zero I would have two degrees negative down thrust...right? MY BRAIN HURTS.......[:@]

How do I post pics on this bb?

RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"
 

The DA is set up with downthrust in the engines to offset the positive incidence in the wing. It doesn't care whether the power comes from glow, gas or electric, it still needs the downthrust. If you change it, you will be forever trimming the airplane.

Jim

RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"
 

Madmax1965

I have agree with jrf. Start with what the firewalls will give you. I've heard about quite a few different power options on the DA and don't recall any thrust problems. I have O.S.50 fx's on mine and the thrust is fine. It is FAST!About the only thing I MAY experiment with is the side thrust with both engines having out thrust aproximatley 2*. I did this succsessfully on a GP Super Sportster 60 I converted it years ago to a twin OS 40fsr /retract trike. Absolutely a fantastic flyer even on one engine! So....

Congrats to Ted 1 on his DA's maiden flight!

RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"
 

Hey Crashpro

kewl video![sm=lol.gif] I not sure but I think there's a law against having so much damn fun!:D I especialy liked how you got your plane to stop in mid high speed pass :) to show a sign pointing out your DA! Blew me away[sm=spinnyeyes.gif]

I'd sure like to make a trip out there some time. Looks like some low passes would be hard pressed to have anything jump out in front of a plane. No matter how fast yer goin'! How long and wide is yiur runway. Looks like a great place to maiden my friends KMP P-38.
I like the overhead shade you have there and the tables. I nice,neat and clean! That's a really nice place to fly. It looks like there's not too much around. When does the weather cool down by you! I can't take the damn heat. 102* by 8am[:@]? I would have heat stroke[:'(]

Didn't you guys have a Scale rally recently? I think a guy I know, Holly Hollinsworth, participated in it

Was your plane"rattling" or something when it was dead stick? Was the camera externaly mounted? Maybe the camera lead was jumping in the air stream?
It looked like it was overcast?

In general we start early as well and are gone by 12...1:00 the latest! Latley we've had to drive at least 50 miles to go flying. We lost our field Glen Helen, Devore. It's right in the triangle where the 15 and 215 intersect. We're hoping to get it back soon. We rent from Glen Helen raceway. We were supposed to start back last Sunday but a 12 hr enduro was happening and they were too busy to work it out. We had a few outlaws flying and causing problems. Flying over the track and arguing with the track staff about it among other things. Now members will have registerd keys that the club and track staff will have a list of names. If you have a key and are flying without registered members, you had better be on the the list or your trespassing and if they find out who gave them an unregistered copy of the key they will be kicked from the club. We have to something! Flying sites are becoming impossible to find around here.[:o]. We are fairly generous to guests. I guess some people take it just too far and let's be honest. We want to fly our planes.... not be policemen.

Whoa! I'd better get off my soapbox. :eek:

RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"
 

Thanks for the reply guys.
I know the DA doesn't care what sort of motor turns the prop....and I will take your advice on leaving the thrust as is from the firewall.

Something is wrong and it may be the motor mounts I added are off. I made sure the motor mounts were level with one another before I installed them to the firewall, so I can't understand the problem. [&o]Can one of you measure the offset(both side and down) and let me know what it is for the motor mounts for fuel burners? As it stands right now (I measured the down thrust) I have about 12 deg downthrust..........too much I am sure.
How do I post pictures from my harddrive onto this bb?

RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"
 

Hi fgpierce

hehe..lots of questions.....Runway is 600' X 60'.......mid September is when the weather breaks...and dips under 100 degress...October thru April is nice. November thru January the nicest..70-80 degrees. Yes, it was overcast yesterday...It even sprinkled a little bit,..was quite humid, (no wonder there was only a few of us out there yesterday)
Yes, we had a rally recently..The Best in the West Jet Rally.....heres one of my videos... http://home.dc.rr.com/maurie/A-10%20Thunderbolt.wmv We have a couple more rallys planned for the fall. A scale rally and I think a IMAC event. I'm the club videographer,...if I'm not flying I'm video taping.
Ha,....you noticed the rattling sound on the plane,..it was a piece of covering near the camera peeling off and flapping in the wind. I ironed it down when I got home.
You and your friend can come fly anytime you want, guests are quite welcome, you just need a current AMA card.
One of our members owns several KMP warbirds.
Anyway,...now I'm rambling...have a good one.

George

RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"
 

I have to take mine apart to search out the engine problem. When I do I'll mearsure it.

As far as uploading pics:

1: Start a reply message..... look in the lower left border just below ..... see where it says " Click here to upload images and files! " ?

2: Click it! ................ a window with about 7 or so blank files will open. You'll see to the right of each one a spot to click labeled "Browse".

3: Now you'll have to browse your hard drive to where you have your pictures stored.

4: Now you should have one or several files filling those slots . When your ready.... Click "OK"!

5: Wait till you get a " upload sucsessful" notice

6: Go back to finishing your message and click "OK" . The pics will show up with the reply you just sent out ! Your done.

It took longer to type this message than it takes to do it. Good luck!

RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"
 

Hi George

Thought that was an "adequate" sized runway! Looks like maybe late November would do. I'll make sure to bring the Dual Ace. We could do some formation work;)

I have always had a hankerin' for the A-10 and that video does not help.:eek: I built a Bruce Tharp Reaction 54 and have a JetCat P-60 for it. Just as I was getting it finished when Prado was closed from the aftermath of "Best in the west 2005". Now no Turbines,no smoke and the fear of the dreaded 400' break remain. I still plan to get into turbines. Sights of A-10's dancing in the sky are just KILLER especialy the ones like That Monster! WoW[sm=spinnyeyes.gif]. Awsome Video... well done!

Thanks for the invite! If we have a break in the weather that fall on a flying day I'll contact you. AMA is no problem.
In the meantime your welcome to come to any of the clubs I belong to:
Marks in Devore... PVMAC in Chino (Prado)... or last but not least Gilman Springs.
We'll be retuning shortly to Devore and it can't be too soon. It's close to my house.

I have a KMP P-61 what does your friend have. It's a Fantastic flier
Later
Fred

RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"
 

O.K. thanks for the info fgpiece......BUT.....there is no " Click here to upload images and files!"
in the left corner. I see smileys....the OK button the Prview button the cancel button and the spell check button........

Maybe my setting are blocking the link.

RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"
 

Max: You have to use the "Reply" button at the top right of each Post. You can't upload through the "fast reply" at the bottom of this page.

Jim

RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"
 

yeah...what jrf said...you'll see this..

RE: Seagull's "Dual Ace"
 

Heh! :D

Thanks.

Anyway....Here is a pic of my DA showing the Axi motor(I will post a new one later). I have since changed the motor mount as it is the cause of the big offset I had in the down thrust. If you look at the fron side and bottom or the fuslage you will see the air intake scoops for cooling the batteries. I also made exit holes in the rear of the plane for the air to escape.