Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

I just received one of the very rare 2/60 kits from a very good friend Don who lives in Alaska. Upon opening the Box and unrolling the plans my mind raced back years to when I built the 2/40 and remember what a blast it was to fly. So with the mind once again racing I am going to jump into the build.

I have asked William to step in on the build to assist with the assembly and to answer any of your question on the 2/40 or the 2/60 as we move along.

I will endeavor to post as many pics as I can just to keep it lively.

In the kit I found that the doublers for the landing gear had been broken in shipping so will cut new ones of regular ply as I do not have light ply.

Laying out the wing to test fit I noticed that the W2 rib had a notch that would not accommodate the wheel in the up position. I would think that you would be able to shape it after the wing was built ...but... I decided to shape it for a 2.75 wheel and if need be grind it out for larger latter.

On we go.

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

more pics

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

Pete:

I was hoping someone else would come in here, but so far no one has.

We made minimum changes in the ribs. One as you have noticed, is going to multiple ply ribs to reinforce the mounting of the wing joiner tube, and another is burning the holes for the wing joiner tube. The lightening holes are also exclusive to the SD 2/60, the 2/40 came with solid ribs. The basic outline is still the same as the Duellist 2/40 Mk II.

One thing I just remembered though, we got a note from one builder about the plan drawing itself. He said that his print had one wing panel longer than the other. I blame Kinko's, but you might want to check this.

Bill.

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

OK No problem I will check the wing plan and let you know. I am sure others will post notes as I get to building. :D maybe this thread will get your blood going and open your kit as well [X(] lol

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

Okay, I'll be watching. :D

Don

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

I aquired a duellist from ebay...........coveting it!, I will watch with envy!

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

Doggie:

Did you get a 2/40 or a 2/60? And if you don't mind, how much did you have to pay?

Bill.

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

Blade47,

I'm glued in to this thread. Will be watching.

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

"Yikes" The pressure the pressure [X(] LOL. We have on this thread one of most knowledgeable Duellist expert in William Robison who I am sure has BOTH the 2/40 and 2/60 kits gathering balsa dust. What do you say guys ... should we put a little pressure on Bill to dig it out and build along with the thread? I would also think that Bill has other friends that would be able to contribute.

What do you say Bill? :D :D :D

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

Pete:

You found me out. One completed Duellist 2/40 (Mk I), one spare wing left after the fuselage was destroyed (I didn't do it), A Duelist 2/40 (Pica) kit in reserve, and my 2/60 still in the box.

Here you will also find a prototype Duellist 2/15 about half done, and some preliminary sketches of a 1/2A version, the Duellist 2/05.

Among the other twins here are one F7F Tigercat and another in process, and I'm expecting yet another within a week or two. And my Tiggerkitty, a stand way off scale F7F.

The fire is filled with too many irons.

Bill.

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

Bill !

A ton of Kits and just no time lol. Anyway over coffee this morning and having a look at the wing I decided to go with flaps and the shorter ailerons ... but how to run the extensions? Hmmm ... well this is what I came up with ..better to drill the holes now then try later.

I used 1/4" sq scrap to square up the ribs to keep the holes even from W2 to W8.

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

Pete:

The rib drilling looks good. We just figured on the wires running through the rib lightening holes.

For the vast majority on the people in the world who have not been privileged to see it, here's a picture of the kit box open. Yes, that is a metal yard stick in there. One of the nicer things Ernest and I did (Patting myself on the back) was to supply the wood in 48" length. This eliminated all sheeting and spar splices in the plane.

Bill.

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

Bill?

Has anyone tried horner tips on the duellist? That BIG 2x2 tip block is just screaming to get carved out to shape:D

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

Yes Thank you for the 48" wood makes life a lot easier for sure. Interesting in what i found in the kit and maybe Don put them in there but I found what looks like Dave Brown push rods and a very nice canopy..... was this included in the Kit?

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

Pete:

Hoerner tips are fine for a GA plane, but remember when you go inverted they are working backwards. On a plane this size though, you probably wouldn't notice the difference thanks to Mr Reynolds.

No, we did not include any hardware, push rods, or the canopy. While in development I found a Great Planes canopy available from Tower Hobbies that fit nicely and posted the part number. Several people got them at the time. I even special ordered one for an overseas buyer.

Anyway, you owe Don another hug and kiss for them.

Haw.

Bill.

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

Well OK maybe just a Hug then lol .... you got me on the tips so will scrape the idea.

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

You may want to run a thread line down the bottom of the TE of the ribs ...I found that ribs W2 to W4 needed to be trimmed so that the top and bottoms line up ( not a very good pic but you will get the idea) just the bottom notch for 1/4" sq need to be just a tic cut out and the lip that sets on the wing jig need a shave :D

One side of the wing is glued and ruffed in place ...but not W1 going to use your method Bill to get the W1's lined up... next sheet this half of the wing ( bottom only for now ) then build the other side.

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

Pete:

Looks like you missed one thing. Look on the drawing for either wing panel, note the location of the "Jig" piece.

You are supposed to place a length of 5/16" square stock to support the rear of the ribs while building. The plan says 1/4 square, in the included notes you are told to use 5/16" in its place.

Bill.

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

My Bad :eek: yep you are right the 5/16" correction is on the left wing panel and I worked on the right ( it's not noted there on the right and I do not see it in the notes ) so OK I will use the 1/4" ( I did use the 1/4" jig on the right ) on the left as well ... will the 1/16 " make that much of a difference? ( looking from behind the wing)

I measured the wing plan and the left wing is 1/8 " shorter then the right [X(] so the fellow that found it is right.

Question Will? Is it OK to build the left wing upside down on the right plan? other wise I will move the last three ribs out 1/16" each to make up for it on the left.

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

John:

Because of the angles, the 1/4" jig might have caused you to build a little twist in the panel - check carefully and if you have you can straighten it as you do the sheeting.

Since the airfoil is symmetric I see no reason why you couldn't build the left panel over the right hand drawing. But do be sure to get the ribs in the right way. Wrong way around would give you zero dihedral, the plane would still fly fine I think, but when you extend the landing gear having the left gear come out the top of the wing and the right out the bottom might make people give you funny looks.

Haw.

Bill.

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

Bill!

I checked the wing very carefully and used a string top and bottom on the TE all tips are even ... the OLD 100% eyeball can not detect any twist (not that there may be a small one ) and I feel 100% that it is OK.

I used the same method on the Left panel ( build it on the left side of the plan and extend the tip rib out to make the wings even in length and used the 1/4" jig) all looks fine there to.

When I have both half's done I will join the wing half's and measure at the tips before I skin to make sure of any twist.

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

How is everyone coming along with there SD builds? Wish someone would get fired up about a gasser version. Oh Yeah! would love it. Say about 144" or so.

Anyway, yes the right wing will come out a good bit longer if you don't make the corrections early. We need to post some pictures of these.

Anyone try using Robo Struts on there retracts yet?

Rick

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

OK got the cam out and a couple pics will tell the story on the length of the wing and the plan..

as you can see I moved the left wing tip rib out the width of it self ( 1/8" ) and then measured both wings from the tip to W1 along the main spar ... so as long as you are aware of the difference you can correct the length.

cheers

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

Bill, I believe its a 240, not sure, its tucked away, but I think I got it for 160.00 or so

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

Dog:

That's a good price now, I've seen them go for over $200 on that site. And Quantum sold them for $130 including freight.

Bill.

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

Looking back at the measurements on my plans. The right wing is some 5/8" longer. I had ser num 52, I think that's right. I wonder if it got worse the higher the numbers. 1/8" wouldn't be enough to even worry about. I wonder just how much a wing could be off to make much difference. Bill, if you are looking for a 2/60 built, I might sell mine. Dunno but it wouldn't be a give away.

Has anyone tried the JR 9303 with the dual throttle mode yet? Just bought one and looking forward to setting that up. Wanna ck out what all the hub bub is about. If someone has feedback on that mode I would love to her it.

Rick

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

I have my eyeball in here as well....I have a 40 and the SD both collecting dust. :eek:

FBD. ;)

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

Rick:

When I'm ready I'll just build mine.

But some pictures and "Pireps" on how it flies for you would be appreciated.

Twinman has made several posts about throttle mixing on the JR radios. You might do a search using "Throttle Twinman Mix." the Google search (at the bottom of the page here) works a lot better than the built-in RCU search engine.

Bill.

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

Hello Blade47,

I am happy but embarrassed that someone else has beaten me to building the plane, ...again. You are catching the inconsistencies of this kit. I will try to blame most of the "mistakes" on the original MAN plans, like the different length in the wing panels. There were some errors and omission that I tried to to correct before putting the kit in "production". Thanks to Bill, I think most of them were caught. I included the MAN reprint with some of my construction notes to myself. I hope they stayed with the kit.

There is one mistake that I have to fess up to. Be carefull when building the nacelles. The nacelle sides are not cut correctly, they were cut for a wing with a tapered LE. Of course, the SD has a STRAIGHT LE. The wing cut out for the inner nacelle side is cut about an 1/8" deeper than the outer side. Worse, if you align the firewall to the front edges of the nacelles, the firewalls (along with the entire nacelle) will have a negative incidence, pointing the engines towards the fuse. NOT a good thing. I would build the nacelles with the wing cut outs flush with the wing, but making sure the formers and firewalls have 0 degrees incidence relative to the fuse. I believe this will work with the least hassle. What you do with the slightly longer (or shorter) sides is your call, modify, cut or just leave them.

Also, I would recut the firewalls from aircraft ply, instead of using the supplied lite-ply.

I will be watching your build with much interest. If there is anything you think I might be able to help you with, just ask. If you reach points of extreme frustration[:o][&o][sm=confused.gif][sm=drowning.gif] during the build, feel free to vent. You can also PM me. There were some decisions I made reflected in the kit that are singularly my preference. For instance, the cut outs for the retracts were made with SpringAir 400 Series in mind. Although, I think about any should work.

Good Luck:)

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

Thank you for the information there Mr. Fleming! I will re cut the firewalls along with F1 as i will be using a nose/firewall retract ( ROM ) and 85 deg mains.

I may call upon your support as I move along with the build.

PS: yes your added notes did come with the kit.

Cheers

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

I don't suppose it would hurt to kick the firewall angles "out" a couple
degrees ? Wouldn't it make the SD more spin/crash resistant in the
case of an engine out, like the Twin star ?

FBD.

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

All:

Ed Moorman has done several experiments with varying amounts of out thrust on the engines of twins. He has settled on seven degrees as ideal.

My Tiggerkitty has 1 1/2 degrees out on the right engine, the left is dead away. All my other locally built twins have no out thrust. ARFs are assembled with whatever the builder put in them.

So far I have not crashed any model twin for any reason. Full scale is another story.

Many full scale GA twins use out thrust, and at three degrees you'll never tell the difference in forward thrust. Seven degrees still has no visible effect on the plane's flight with both running, but to me it just looks awkward.

So it's your call. Seven degrees is a very good "Safety net," and it's a lot less expensive than a rudder gyro.

Bill.

PS: Good to hear from you, Ernest. I was going to call and let you know this thread was running. Hadn't gotten to it. wr.

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

Hey guys, I just purchased me a Pica Duellist from ebay, It should be hear in another week.
I'm going to keep an eye on this thread because Ive never built a twin before, But mine is the 240.
Did you say yours is a 260? I didn't know there was a 260.
Let me make sure I understand correctly, The right engine should be 7 deg. to the right and the left one straight ahead.
Are the same mistakes in the 240 kit as the 260?
I'm mostly concerned with the Nacelle's, I will have to really watch that because I'm sure the eng. pitch and the Nacelle's being straight make or break a twin.
Is there a need to increase the size of the rudder? or is size on planes OK?
I was thinking of two OS 48 4 cycles for mine, what do you think?

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

timfarrar:

What you have, the Pica kit, is what we call the Duellist 2/40 Mk I version. On it the wing and horizontal stabilizer are mounted with two degrees positive incidence, the engines have five degrees down thrust. No side thrust on either engine.

The Duellist 2/40 Mk II version had a slightly larger wing, and both the wing and horizontal stab were mounted with zero incidence. The engines, in the Mk II version, had no down thrust. The vertical fin and rudder were modified to decrease the roll coupling in knife edged flight. The Mk II 2/40 was never kitted.

All the changes were made to have the plane Mk II perform better in aerobatics. The Mk I had different characteristics upright and inverted, but it was the better trainer version.

EHFleming, I, and some others got together a few years ago, we all wanted a larger Duellist. We designed and produced a "60" size version, at about 86" wing span. Ernest and I held the orders open for about a year, and sold a total of 50 Super Duellist 2/60 kits. These were done on a cost basis, sharing all the set-up expenses, and by buying all the materials in bulk orders we kept the cost as low as we could.

If you want the 2/60 version send a PM to Flyboy Dave, a buddy of his has one for sale. Probably $250-$275 plus shipping. And it's a large box

Engines. The 2/40 was originally designed to fly with 0.30 two stroke engines, but it was so disappointing that the minimum engine was raised to 0.40 two stroke. Your OS 48 four stroke engines are if anything marginally more powerful than a sport 30 two stroke, I'm afraid you will be unhappy if you use them.

Ideally the engines will weight around 12 ounces, the plane tends to be nose heavy anyway. If you insist on four stroke engines for the Duellist 2/40 your best choice is the Saito FA-82, and even they weight 16 ounces each. Best is a really light weight 0.60 two stroke.

Bill.

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

I've only had two twins....but I would not even think about building a kit twin
without at least 5 degrees "out-thrust" on each engine. Up thrust, or down
thrust is meaningless when considering survivability with an engine out. :eek:

Consider this.... a Twin Star, with 7 degrees out-thrust on each engine (which
looks funny) can take off and land with only one engine running. This is abnormal
but highly desirable with a twin engine plane.

Out-thrust does look funny on the ground, but there is a "saying" about twin
engine aircraft...."when one engine quits, the other engine will lead you to the
crash site".

I have a Duelist 40, and a Super Duelist....both kits. Regardless of down thrust,
they will both have "out-thrust" on both engines. ;)

FBD. :D

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

William & Dave:

I will respond to both of you a little, Thanks for helping me out here.
First I would like to get the 260 especially sense it has the two piece wing, but I need to start out little, and Ive already ordered this 240, ( I paid $172.50 including shipping ) Do yall think that was to much, If so maybe you shouldnt tell me. HA HA
Boy! Im sure disapointed to find out about the weight problem with the 4 strokes, I didnt even think about that, I was just thinking of those two 4 strokes sounding through the air.
Being as how Ive never had a twin before I need to listen to you.
Dave:
With 5 to 7 deg. right thrust in both engines, should we increase the size of the rudder, What do you think, I havnt seen the plans yet but in the pictures on the internet, The rudder looks awfully small for a twin.

THANKS AGAIN YOU GUYS, TIM

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

Tim....Welcome to RCU....[sm=thumbup.gif]

Don't be afraid of the 4-strokes....go with the "coolness factor". The price you
paid was about right....don't worry about that either. ;)

The only thing that will save a twin in an emergency is....a big rudder. ;)

FBD. :D

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

Dave:

What size engines are you going to use on your 240 Duellist? and which one are you going to build first? the 240 or the Super Duellist?
Is the Super Duellist the 260 ?

SEEYA , TIM

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

Yes, Tim....the SD is for 60, size engines, and really larger. I have a pair of
NIB OS 40FSR engines assigned to the regular Duelist. ;)

I will build the 40 sized first. [sm=thumbup.gif]

RE: Super Duellist 2/60 Build
 

Tim:

The Duellist series aircraft fly fine with no out thrust on the engines, and still fly fine with either engine out. With no out thrust. The airplane was designed to be safe with an engine out.

Many scale twins are just about automatically dead when an engine is lost, the B-25 and P-38 models for example. Even these planes can be flown on a single engine if the speed is kept high, but out thrust makes them much easier to fly with one dead.

The Duellist planes do not need out thrust, they are capable of take off, flight, and landing on a single engine. However, out thrust wont hurt anything but your eyes.

Quote:

---

With 5 to 7 deg. right thrust in both engines...

---

Please note, Tim, that it is not RIGHT thrust on both engines. The engines, if not pointed straight ahead, should be angled away from the fuselage - right on the right engine, left on the left.

Summary? If you want out thrust on your Duellist you can do so, but it's not needed.

One of the few things I dislike about most twins is having both exhausts come out the same side, or both cylinders sticking out the same direction, I just find them to look nicer when they are symmetric. Chuck Auger, who was involved in the early design of the 2/60, built his 2/40 with rear exhaust piped engines. Pretty. See first picture. My "Pet" K&B 40 engines are easily reversed, note the mufflers in the second and third pictures.

Bill.