RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
 

QUESTION FOR THREAD FOLLOWERS:

I am getting a lot of inquires about using the sensors with the flywheel mounted magnets in the Evolution 26. I know that it has two magnets mounted 90 deg apart. Has anyone tried using the sensors with the flywheel magnets and are they point opposite or the same direction?

Thanks in advance for any replies...

RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
 

Hi Bill, I looked at a 26, 2 weeks ago and did not actually test the magnets on the twin sync hall sensor, but, I would assume that both magnets would have to be North to talk to the ignition sensor. I would also assume that as the propdriver rotates past the ignition sensor, it ignores the first magnet when you flip it over and reads the 2nd magnet polorization to create the spark, at which the piston is now within 2 degrees before top dead center, which makes for an easy starting engine. I would next assume that at aprox 2500 rpms, the ignition module THEN starts to read the 1st magnet polorization it sees, and electroniclly advances the timing to full advance. That timing curve is programmed into the module , but not published. Most 2 stroke engines have 28-32 degrees at full advance. Even though the 1st magnet passes the sensor approx 90 degrees before top dead center, the module compensates for this. If you dont want to use a spinner on the prop, and dont want a backplate of any type behind the prop to hold the magnets, the only concievable way I know to get the twin sync to work on the 26 is to use a diametric magnet mounted in the prop hub opposite the ignition magnets, with the South pole outboard from crank centerline, so it will NOW polorize the OTHER SIDE (side opposite from the side with the writing on it) of the twin sync hall sensor, and NOT effect the ignition hall sensor. THEN, you could mount the twin sync hall sensor on the opposite side of the engine case from the ignition hall sensor. This ONLY works IF, the twin sync polorization magnets are opposite poles from the ignition magnet poles, AND there is NO RF leakage emmiting from the ignition hall sensor lead to send false signals to the twin sync hall sensor, AND, the spark plug high tension lead is suffiently shielded for RF. This theory would have to be tested to be conclusive either way. If there is leakage, then you could shield BOTH hall sensor leads. The ignition lead, all the way to the module, and the twin sync lead, at least 12" past the module on its jouney back to the twin sync unit. My recommendation, if you dont use a spinner on your prop, then use a 3/32" thick aluminum backplate behind the prop approx 1.5" bigger in dia. than the propdriver to mount the twin sync magnet. Then use a hardwood 3/8" x 3/8" standoff bolted to the engine mount rail to hold the hall sensor in place with a 1/16" air gap. Rick Simmons

RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
 

Bill,

To clarify, J1 and J2 when connected per the instructions left LED 2 working OK, but LED 1 glowed dimly and would brighten when the magner was passed by it.

On J1, when I hook it up with the orange wire outboard and the black inboard, everything works OK. Perhaps I wired the extension backward, but is buried in the wing and I can't check it without major disasssembly.

I am unclear re: diametric mags. They seem to light up the LED's from either end.

The sensors are soldered properly per your instructions.

Thanks for your help...

Bo

RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
 

I am concerned that you are not using the diametrics correctly. email me your phone #. Let's talk for a couple of minutes. That is the fastest way to get to the bottom of this.

RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
 

Hi Guys, I guess I should have included this pic along with my explanation. The diametric magnets are cylinder shaped and have the north - south poles on each half LENTHWISE. Like cutting a pie in half. The left half is north and the right half is south. To test the ign magnets on the 26, pass the twin sync hall sensor across both magnets with the side that the writing is on and see if the LED's light up on the twin sync unit. Lets say that they do. Now, you will rotate the diametric magnet untill you find the half that lights up the LED's on the twin sync unit. Mark that half with a red ink pen. That is the half that will face the crank centerline as it is pushed into the prop driver. Now simply mount the twin sync hall sensor with the writing NOT facing the magnet. It should now light up the twin sync LED. Bill will have to confirm this procedure, but I think it should work. Rick

RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
 

I am getting started on a build of an ASM C-130. I think this twinsync would be a good idea at least on the outboard pair of engines. Has the 4 engine version been worked out?

Engines will be the OS 25fx glow. I want to use sport digital servos for the throttles. Maybe even mini digitals to save some weight. Will they work with the twinsync ok? I like the digitals for throttle because they seem to have finer trim points for setting up throttle arm throws.

I am currently using two of the os25's on a smaller C-160 twin. I can't remember the peak rpm as I was more concerned with getting the mechanical set-ups as close as possible. And getting reliable idles and transitions to full power. By the way I am spinning 9-5 props on the C-160 and may go to 9-6 on the C-130.

Thanks, just getting started with the project and getting as much info I can before hand.

See ya,
Rod

RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
 

The four engine unit has been ready and shipping for a while. Several in the field being flown on C130s and B17s. I only sell the four engine unit direct. Email me at [email protected] and I will send you more info.

RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
 

Ok thanks. I am a long ways from installing engines so I will contact you then.

So there is no problem with the digital servos? That way I can buy the servos I need when I get to that point. What are the rpm limits on the sync?

See ya,
Rod

RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
 

Digital servo are fine but really not necessary. The twinsync actually reduces the resolution of the servo a little that you can get from your trim. It has to do that to detect stick movement. (The sync itself has very high resolution). So that is why I say digital are not necessary.

RPM limit is about 23,000rpm if I remember correctly.

RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
 

Thanks, I found the RCS website and downloaded the manual. That has answered alot of questions. Is it safe to assume that with the 4 engine model I would do the same set up for each pair of engines? Is it basically just two twinsyncs in one unit?

Again thanks and I will let you know when I am ready to the sync system.

See ya,
Rod

RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
 

It is two twinsyncs with a communication link between them. One controls the inboards the other controls the outboards. If all four engines are running and you are above the sync point it synchonizes all four engines together. If an inboard dies it idles the other inboard leaving the outboards at power. Same if an outboard dies. Always equal thrust side to side.

RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
 

bill
just sent email and then found this forum.. answered my question on the 4 engine unit... will it support plug drivers??
next question...cost...????
email me or thru here is fine.
john

RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
 

GUYS,

I just had someone test the EVO 26 Flywheel Magnets. Apparently there are two about 90 degrees apart. One points north and the other south so there is a good chance that the Twinsync will work without having to install a secondary magnet just for the sync unit but rather letting the sensor sense the flywheel magnet.

RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
 

NEWS FLASH!!! New option coming...

I have gotten many emails that many people like the twinsync and comment that it simplifies flying twins - thanks. Being a twin flyer I agree but it is still complicated to install and program. I am working on simplifying that.

I have already greatly simplified the glow driver wiring with the 2.0 glow drivers that mount in the nacellel along with the battery and everything is prep'ed with connectors and only a servo wire is required for each glow driver to the nacellel.

Now the most difficult part of the install is the magnets and sensors. Plus it is possible to pick up spark noise in the sensor wire with gas engines that can cause problems - although rare with shielded plug caps and plug wires.

SO... if you have gas engines with a newer ignition (that outputs spark pulses on the third wire from the ignition).... NO SENSORS OR MAGNETS WILL BE REQUIRED WITH THIS OPTION.

The option I am coming out with is an optoisolation module that reads RPM from the ignition module of gas engines rather than hall/rpm sensors and magnets. (Sorry not for use on glow engines.) This simply plugs into the ignitions, the receiver, and the throttle servos. It converts the ignition spark signal into a signal that replaces the hall/rpm sensors and plugs into the twinsync in their place. The ignitions are completely optically isolated from the Twinsync, receiver and all radio components so no chance of interference.

I have a few working prototypes now that work with negative pulse ignition systems (Like the RCS). I would like to get a few in the field for flight testing. So if you fly regularily and will provide feedback on your results send me an email. I would like a couple of field testers before releasing this option.

I attached a couple of pictures of working prototypes. One shows a snap on board and the other is cable connected. I will probably finalize on the cable connected rather than the snap on module.

RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
 

I am having to install my four OS 32sx 2 stroke engines inverted in my C-130, so I think I will plan to get the 4 engine unit. Does it also have the glow plug driver option?

I tried all I could to avoid inverting these 2 strokes but I couldn't find the right pitts style mufflers and the engines really installed pretty cleanly inverted, just the mufflers will hang out of the cowling. I just want to do eveything I can to avoid any engine out problems with this C-130.

Thanks again,
Rod

RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
 

dear bill

following is the description of set up

radio futaba 9zwc2
receiver futaba 149 dual conversion pcm
frequency 40.730
engines osfl 70
sullivan remote headlock
servos on throttle hitec std 411
jomar battery switcher
battery 2 nos 3600mah nimh
atv 80 and 100
version 1.41 with upgraded chips
magnets diametric drilled into thrust wa
ran in the engines of the model kmp b25 last week end. the unit ran flawlessly
today the unit went dead on me. had to restart the model (power) and lower the idle on the tx for the sync unit to start again

all other channels were in proper order and working while this lock out on the unit occurred

on opening up and checking the lead to the display ie red and black at display end had come off. May be since we were starting with a external starter over a prolonged period

could the loose connection between the sync unit and display have caused the lock out or is the sullivan headlock giving me issues

would appreciate your feedback / support

RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
 

PCM lockout is caused by the Twinsync missing about 20 frames worth of info. So yes a vibrating glow plug can cause that. I made updates in the 1.4.5 and newer firmware versions that make it much more difficult to trigger a lockout and it recovers very quickly in the newer firmware (1/8-1/4sec recovery). The older (1.4.1) firmware did not typically recover very well. It should be ok unless you are seeing frequent lockouts or you can get a firmware update.

Bill

RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
 

thanks for the prompt replies
how do i get a firmware update
the reason i ask is i am from india and logistically it would be very difficult for me to send the same to you

thanks

RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
 

Guys,

A reminder... Let me know if you have the original TwinSync (glow drivers on the one board) or the New TwinSync 2.0 when sending chips back for an update. The chips are interchangeable with one exception - Glowdrivers. The glow drivers are reversed (on is off and vise versa between the two versions of the Twinsync. So if your glow drivers are on when they should be off and visa versa then you have a new chip in an older board or old chip in a new board. There is no other difference between the two other than the way the glow plugs operate. So if you are not using onboard glow drivers the two chips can be interchanged.

RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
 

What is the best way to wrap and secure the Twin Sync in the aircraft ??

RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
 

I don't think there is a "best way". I stick mine with double sided foam tape. Some mount to foam rubber with 3M 77 adheisive. Some zip tie it to the frame, etc.

RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
 

Flypapa,

I zip tied my unit to the wing rib with some 1/2" foam behind it.

Mike

RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
 

Hello Everyone,
small confession to make.. I am not from Airplane forum at all, I dont even have a plane..but the heart and soul of my current project depends on some form of sync system (and I am looking hard on TwinSync). So I was just curious.. Is it or is it not possible to 'variably' control each Twin motor individually through AUX channel <1/3 throttle input ? After reading the manual I was under the impression that its only possible with 2 or 3 position switches..
Guys, my everlasting search of sync would be over if independent control at any throttle input is possible with TwinSync...
Thanks a ton in advance

RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
 

In massive anticipation for someones reply:([:o]

RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer **SUPPORT **
 

Codeblack,

Sorry for the delay I was travelling yesterday. Anyway if I understand what you are asking for an off the shelf twinsync will not do it.

However, I am willling to make custom codes/features for people occasionally. It would be fairly easy to make a mode to do the following (if I understood you correctly):

<1/3 throttle
throttle controls engine1
aux controls engine2

>1/3 throttle
engines are syncronized after throttles are moved to thottle stick position

Is this what you are asking for? Why?

email me at [email protected]