big_ stik_ 40

The definition for unusual in this forum seems to be " aircraft that don't rely on an airfoil to provide lift" so I think this will be ok here, since only part of the flight uses airfoils.

I am really interested in building a rocket plane that would be propelled by "E" class solid fuel model rocket engines. "E" class engines are fairly cheap, safer and easier to get.
My ideas.......a plane that goes up vertically like a rocket powered by a rocket engine, and then is controlled by radio control for it's glide back down to earth. I have seen several commercial models, but most of them were powered by smaller "A" - "C" size engines. I want a plane that will be light enough to glide around for awhile. Has anyone scratch built any models of this type? Any tips or suggestions? Also, if you have any pics of models with rockets to shorten take off length (C-130 type planes) I would like to see/ hear about it. ( AMA allowed it, last time I checked) What EXACTLY does AMA allow? I want this to be safe and legal.

Billiam411

BLECH! "E" Engines? Why so small, get "F"s, much more powerfull, anyway, forget the safe and legal stuff, it's not going to happen. There was a thread about a guy who put rockets on his aerobird and shot them at targets. It wasn't legal.

big_ stik_ 40

I don't have my high powered rocket permit yet, and I came to the conclusion that E engines would be a good starting point, and if successful I may boost the engine impulse.
As to the legality comment, I will stick to my previous comment on that point. I want to keep everything legal (state and AMA). I don't want to be responsible for any accident that I can possibly prevent.

Mel Francis

Sounds like the 'ultimate' glider class.

The wings should fold back along the sides for ascent, then spring into position at altitude.

Actually, you could just model it on the existing Space Shuttle, for a good starter vehicle!

Good luck....

heli001

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On the 3 hours of Rocket Challenge on Discovery, there was a team that pretty much did that....

The poor RC pilot looked kind of overwhelmed at dead sticking the model back to earth......

Unstable

2M glider capable of a highstart launch.

this will be able to take the abuse of a powered launch.

build a cradle for it to act as a launch rail and position the rocket motor towards the tail in a metal tube.

now for the ahrd part... you are going to need to find the correct thrust angle or else every time you launch it will spin out of control. so start off with low power engines and the rail almost horizontal. then work your way up.

after you get the angles and CG set you can start playing with multi stage boosters.


I know one person did this with a ZAGI flying wing. and it works well.

Thomas B

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Actually, most radio controled rocket gliders are designed for D and E class motors. The international competition class is based on E motors. Check out George Gassaway's great web page on radio controlled rocket gliders. Lots of info on high performance rocket gliders here:

[link]http://members.aol.com/GCGassaway/rcgliders.htm[/link]

Estes sells a neat new ARF for D and E motors. Is is an updated StratoBlaster called the Centurions T-25. It really moves out on composite E motors.

The current AMA rules allow for radio controlled models being boosted by rocket motors up to 120 n/s (i.e, G class consumer motors that do not require a high power cert.) They do not cover larger rocket boosted R/C models and they specifically prohibit launching uncontrolled model rockets from a radio controlled model.

Radio controlled rocket gliders ARE safe and legal.

Mel Francis

Well, big stik, it looks like there's nothing new under the sun, and Thomas B's got you covered.

You'll be running to catch up to these guys........

Looks like the good luck has already started!

big_ stik_ 40

On rocket challenge, the plane that the flew was a semiscale model of a NASA rocket. It was very large, and it didn't look like it glided very well .The plane didn't look like it had much wing area, and it seemed king of heavy. I thought it was cool, but I want to build something closer to the glider concept.
How high can an E motor take one of those gliders? Comparable to Hi start? That looks like a lot of fun, and something different that anyone else at the field. You mentioned putting the motor closer to the tail. I was thinking at or ahead of the center of gravity. Theoretically I think this would make it more stable. I am interested though, what are your reasons for putting it there. Do you think that would be better?
Thanks for the replies!

tiggerinmk

I had an Estees rocket starter pack which consisted of a foam space shuttle and launcher. Wasn't very good, that shuttle flew like a brick, came down way before the ejected rocket motor tube on the parachute.....[:-]

Mel Francis

Thomas B has supplied us with a great link above, check it out.

As for R/C rocket shuttles, this one seems to work pretty well.

The link to the shuttle is on Thomas' club page, linked above.

tiggerinmk

Nope, couldn't find it on the Estes web site. However, there is a Night Wing which looks like it could be adapted

big_ stik_ 40

I want to build my own plane, not a kit. I have seen the Estes models, and several others, but we have a long winter ahead and I need a project to keep me busy. (only way to not go crazy over flying deprivation) Thanks for the replies and link.
Anyone know about how muck performance you can expect from a glider on an "E" engine. I can't find estes G engines anywhere. On tower hobbies you can click on a link to A, B, C, D, E ,"F" or "G" engines, but the one for "G" goes nowhere. Go to www.rocketfun.com. It's in the center of the page, half way down. What's wrong with the link? Do they not sell them anymore? The "F" engine link does the same thing.

Thomas B

My Feedback: (4)

Big Stik, there are other rocket motor makers besides Estes.... Estes fades out at about a E size. Aerotech makes the larger motors. I predict Tower used to sell the old Estes composite motors in the F and G range that are now discontinued. (The North Coast by Estes stuff)

E motors can boost a competition model well over 1000 feet in 6-8 seconds.

The rocktery equivalent to R/C Universe is Rocketry Online, a very fine web resource with tons of links and discussion and vendors and news. It is at:

[link]http://www.rocketryonline.com[/link]

The vendors there will have the larger Aerotech composite motors. You can buy a reloadable E casing for 30-40 bucks and then fly composite E motors for about 3 bucks a launch. Check out the Aerotech web site at:

[link]http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com[/link]

It is a shame that Kevin Mckiou's very nice web site is down. It had some great rocket glider stuff.

tiggerinva, I have given up trying to figure out the Estes Web site.... I promise the Centurian T-25 does exist. I have one...

The kit is at a lot of hobby shops...here is a picture:

You can buy the kit at:

[link]http://www.discountrocketry.com/prod.itml/icOid/828[/link]

Thomas B

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I though you guys might like to see some old photos of my prototype HobbyLab (long dead company) F-14 R/C Boost Glider flying on Aerotech G-40 power... It is an R/C Boost glider since it drops the empty rocket casing and motor mount after boost. An R/C Rocket glider does not drop anything and retains the casing during flight.

The model flies on roll and pitch control via tailerons. Yes, you fly it very carefully during the boost. It does over 100 mph vertically for a few seconds.
At burnout, a gadget on the motor mount drops the motor mount and frees the wings, which automatically move forward as speed bleeds off. Then you have a 2-3 minute glide before you load it up and go again. Yes, it will thermal! Weighs about 2.5 lbs at launch. Pics are from 1994 or so.

These pictures show it under boost.

Thomas B

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And here are the last of the F-14 rocket glider pictures.

These show it gliding at a great height (note the grainy, highly enlarged picture) plus a landing approach:

Mel Francis

Thanks, Tom

You've added some real dimension to this topic.

I've kept track of it as the day progressed, and learned a lot....

big_ stik_ 40

Thanks Thomas B
That's exactly the kind of thing I'm interested in. Something different, fun, and enough performance to keep interest. Is it aerobatic at all?
I am very interested in this new combination of two of my favorite hobbies. I've heard about it for along time, but never knew it was that big. I plan to get my high powered rocket permit, but I have to get connected with the right people first. ( you have to have witnesses of a successful flight, and then send in a card with signatures.) I will keep all of you posted on my ideas and progress. I can't wait to get started.

Thomas B

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Glad to help out. I am not doing much rocketry stuff these days, but am flying a lot of electric, indoor, park and everything else. I do plan to burn some more AP one of the days.

I was Tripoli #2150, level 2 when I stopped doing high power. I was kind of waiting for the regulatory issues to settle a bit before getting back into it.

I will add some more tidbits here from time to time.

tiggerinmk

Tom,

Thank for the links, I believe you about the Centurian ; I also found it on the TH site big_ stik_ 40 gave the link for.

Can you give some more details on the Centurian? I presume you launch it vertically (not at an angle) and it ejects the motor before you fly it back?

Thomas B

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The T-25 Centurian flight profile is a near vertical boost on a D, E or 24mm F motor to as high as 800-1000 feet on the larger motors. The motor is retained by the model, since there is no CG change after ignition. (The fuel is close to the CG) Motors without ejection charges are used.

They, you get a 1.5 to 2.5 min gliding flight with no thermal help, less if you do aerobatics.

I flew its early kit cousin, The StratoBlaster, for years. I won R/C Rocket Glider Precision Duration with the StratoBlaster at the NARAM in 1996. (National Association of Rocketry Annual Meet) I just recently converted it to Speed 400 power. Pics of the model flying with electric are attached.

My T-25 Centurian is destined to be a conversion article for direct drive brushless electric R/C.

John Boren

My Feedback: (1)

Here is a picture of my upscaled Lady Hawk. The plans for a smaller version were in RC Modeler Many years ago. Mine is powered by a G35. Goes up about a thousand feet where I then get a two minute glide. It's designed for show and not gliding. It died a horrible death earlier this year but I cut out two sets of parts when I made the first one plus I am designing my own version in CAD sometime this winter. Have fun.

John Boren

vicman

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Let me know what you want for a set of those plans when you get them done. I am also interested in the f-14.

FunXtra

For an AWESOME scale model, why not make a ME-163 rocket fighter ship from 1943???
say-a 52" wingspan with 4 "F"-size motors wouldn't sound bad at all...the only problem is making the schub of the plane last 2 1/2 to 3 minutes of powered flight with a hi-speed glide.
HEY THAT SOUNDS GREAT FOR SLOPE RACING!!!!-maybe even do races with thermal gliders, how's that????

fly103-RCU

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Hey Guys, Great topic!!! I will be watching and learning!!! I would also be intrested in a set of F14 plans if possible???? [email protected]