“New” 28% Wild Hare Extra 300 84”– Red Black Yellow
11-25-2006, 04:47 AM
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RE: “New” 28% Wild Hare Extra 300 84”– Red Black Yellow
For the DA-50 there's so much information out on RCU. I had some oscillating rpm issues and I looked into it. Come to find out, the pressure in my cowling was changing as I went inverted or on knife edge, which caused the engine to think it was at a different altitude! Covering the static pressure port with a shield will ensure that it is measuring "static pressure" instead of dynamic pressure to keep the carb at the right setting.
I flew her again today and the CG was still favoring the tail by quite a bit, so it looks like I'm putting in a carbon fiber stabilizer tube. I just happen to have one I purchased from www.troybuiltmodels.com quite a ways back. This should lighten up the tail a bit and allow the plane to fly balanced. I'm finally going to put on the lightweight fiberglass spinner, that should help a little too. I am optimistic that we'll end up right on during tomorrow's flights. So, to my great surprise the plane did NOT end up nose heavy because of the canister, quite the opposite happened. The pitts muffler is so much further forward of the CG that it has a greater moment than the canister, which sits just ahead of the wing tube with a much shorter moment.
Here's a couple of pictures of how I cut out an aluminum soda can and made a shield. I looked and several places have these "Carb Plates" from $7.95 to $13.00. You can even get them in carbon fiber! The free aluminum fix works for me.
I'll report back tomorrow as to whether or not this carb plate fixes the pressure problem.
I flew her again today and the CG was still favoring the tail by quite a bit, so it looks like I'm putting in a carbon fiber stabilizer tube. I just happen to have one I purchased from www.troybuiltmodels.com quite a ways back. This should lighten up the tail a bit and allow the plane to fly balanced. I'm finally going to put on the lightweight fiberglass spinner, that should help a little too. I am optimistic that we'll end up right on during tomorrow's flights. So, to my great surprise the plane did NOT end up nose heavy because of the canister, quite the opposite happened. The pitts muffler is so much further forward of the CG that it has a greater moment than the canister, which sits just ahead of the wing tube with a much shorter moment.
Here's a couple of pictures of how I cut out an aluminum soda can and made a shield. I looked and several places have these "Carb Plates" from $7.95 to $13.00. You can even get them in carbon fiber! The free aluminum fix works for me.
I'll report back tomorrow as to whether or not this carb plate fixes the pressure problem.
11-27-2006, 12:52 AM
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RE: “New” 28% Wild Hare Extra 300 84”– Red Black Yellow
I kept the maiden video short and sweet. There was extreme fog rolling in and out that morning and I wanted to tighten the prop bolts after a short flight anyway. When the CA weather clears up, I'll have some more video to post of what this plane is really like to fly. So far, I love it! 
http://www.rcuvideos.com/view_video....e8dbb1d807a81a
http://www.rcuvideos.com/view_video....e8dbb1d807a81a
11-28-2006, 02:36 AM
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RE: “New” 28% Wild Hare Extra 300 84”– Red Black Yellow
For a comparison, here's the OLD Extra 300LX with the Slimline Pitts muffler on it flying a similar pattern as the New Extra in the previous post.
Check it out here: http://www.rcuvideos.com/view_video....625888b4093e91
Check it out here: http://www.rcuvideos.com/view_video....625888b4093e91
12-02-2006, 11:01 PM
#79
RE: “New” 28% Wild Hare Extra 300 84”– Red Black Yellow
Flyin Tiger, a great way to keep your muffler/header bolts tight is to safety wire them like on a scale aircraft. For a header it would be quite easy, simply take your bolts and drill the heads to put safety wire and twist away as described here, http://www.whizwheels.com/Tips/safetywiring.html.
For a muffler such as the Bisson Custom Mufflers (BCM) you will need to get longer bolts and 2 shims to bring the bolt head outside the mufflers then safety wire them. I tried just putting washers and longer bolts to safety wire but that didnt work cause the bolts would flex side to side so by putting a shim to fill up the hole in the muffler mounting boss then they couldnt flex with the heat and such. Sure wish they would drill only the bolt size hole in the mufflers!!
The problem is not necissarily vibrations (although it can certainly cause this) but more of a culprit would be the metals expanding due to the heat and cooling cycles.
I have learned the hard way to just wire and forget about it.
A additional note would be to run the engine till it is at normal operating temps then tighten the bolts again then safety wire, this has worked like a charm when I have done it!!! Thanks goes to Rex for educating me on this!!!
I will try and attach a PIC that shows.
For a muffler such as the Bisson Custom Mufflers (BCM) you will need to get longer bolts and 2 shims to bring the bolt head outside the mufflers then safety wire them. I tried just putting washers and longer bolts to safety wire but that didnt work cause the bolts would flex side to side so by putting a shim to fill up the hole in the muffler mounting boss then they couldnt flex with the heat and such. Sure wish they would drill only the bolt size hole in the mufflers!!
The problem is not necissarily vibrations (although it can certainly cause this) but more of a culprit would be the metals expanding due to the heat and cooling cycles.
I have learned the hard way to just wire and forget about it.
A additional note would be to run the engine till it is at normal operating temps then tighten the bolts again then safety wire, this has worked like a charm when I have done it!!! Thanks goes to Rex for educating me on this!!!
I will try and attach a PIC that shows.
12-04-2006, 01:47 AM
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RE: “New” 28% Wild Hare Extra 300 84”– Red Black Yellow
Greg:
My only concern is the metal-to-metal contact that the wire would be making with the header and possible resultant RF noise from any vibration. Any metal to metal contact on the aircraft that has a potential for oscillations, especially high frequency like on a tight wire stretched around a header pipe, might cause problems.
On a pitts muffler the tie wire goes straight from one bolt to the next and shouldn't rub on the muffler itself, so you're safe there.
Any thoughts on this?
My only concern is the metal-to-metal contact that the wire would be making with the header and possible resultant RF noise from any vibration. Any metal to metal contact on the aircraft that has a potential for oscillations, especially high frequency like on a tight wire stretched around a header pipe, might cause problems.
On a pitts muffler the tie wire goes straight from one bolt to the next and shouldn't rub on the muffler itself, so you're safe there.
Any thoughts on this?
12-04-2006, 01:53 AM
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RE: “New” 28% Wild Hare Extra 300 84”– Red Black Yellow
It was a bit of a challenge to get my CG correct. In the maiden video the CG was dangerously aft of where it should have been. I was very surprised having balanced the plane at the recommended 3-1/2" aft of the leading edge at the WINGTIPS. Our fingers must have been pushing on it somehow to make it come out falsely within limits. Even with an extra 4 oz. in the canister muffler setup, it ended up flying tailheavy, as you saw in the video! With several "beeps" of down trim on the elevator the speed sensitive trim issue was definitely not a good thing. Though easy to fly and gentle to land, I didn't want to leave the aircraft this way, it would have been a nightmare to trim out in other areas.
To correct this issue:
1. I put the spinner on. I did two more five minute flights, tightening the prop bolts before going back up, the wood was getting crushed a bit and the bolts really started feeling tight. The lightweight fiberglass spinner cone will still add an ounce or two to the forward-most point.
2. Switched to a Carbon Fiber stab tube. The CF tube weighs half as much as the aluminum tube. Removing weight way back at the tail requires that I remove less weight to correct an aft CG condition.
3. I moved the batteries up to formers on either side of the fuel tank. Although only a small change, from just behind the wing tube on the radio tray to six inches forward of the wing tube, it was something.
Now the aircraft maintains a 45 degree upline while inverted. I normally like to see the nose drop slightly, but I'm going to trim the plane with the CG here and see how it works out. I don't want to move anything else if I can help it and the batteries don't have anymore wire left to move them further forward, I don't want to use an extension on a battery either.
Regretably, I forgot to take the plane and lift it by the wingtips to see what I get for a CG point there. Hopefully it was just faulty fingers and the CG works out where it was designed to. We'll see.
To correct this issue:
1. I put the spinner on. I did two more five minute flights, tightening the prop bolts before going back up, the wood was getting crushed a bit and the bolts really started feeling tight. The lightweight fiberglass spinner cone will still add an ounce or two to the forward-most point.
2. Switched to a Carbon Fiber stab tube. The CF tube weighs half as much as the aluminum tube. Removing weight way back at the tail requires that I remove less weight to correct an aft CG condition.
3. I moved the batteries up to formers on either side of the fuel tank. Although only a small change, from just behind the wing tube on the radio tray to six inches forward of the wing tube, it was something.
Now the aircraft maintains a 45 degree upline while inverted. I normally like to see the nose drop slightly, but I'm going to trim the plane with the CG here and see how it works out. I don't want to move anything else if I can help it and the batteries don't have anymore wire left to move them further forward, I don't want to use an extension on a battery either.
Regretably, I forgot to take the plane and lift it by the wingtips to see what I get for a CG point there. Hopefully it was just faulty fingers and the CG works out where it was designed to. We'll see.
12-04-2006, 02:55 AM
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RE: “New” 28% Wild Hare Extra 300 84”– Red Black Yellow
Wow! We need to get another flying day like Saturday! Even with family in town I was able to sneek out to the field for a couple of hours to tune and trim the New Extra 300. Once the CG was acceptable these were the improvements in flying characteristics immediately apparent over the former 28% LX version:
1. Harriers are rock solid. I only experienced wing rock when I was turning cross wind and wasn't on the aileron correction, into or downwind required NO AILERON correction. Inverted was as locked in as upright. Steering with rudder and partial 3D elevator this new extra will be the plane that allows me to comfortably get "down on the deck" within the first few gallons of gasoline! This plane instills confidence not unlike a foamy.
2. Ailerons are about TWICE as effective as the LX. The tapered ailerons give a very desireable amount of control while in slow speed - post stall - flight. While hovering I can do an anti-torque roll with only half deflection of 3D rate ailerons.
3. High alpha knife edge is more easily controlled with the redesigned tail group. This aircraft is less scale with the horizontal stablilizer moved forward but there is intuitive and immediately inherent control of post stall flight, even while flying in the sensitive high-alpha knife edge flight envelope.
4. Waterfalls and Knife Edge Spins are EXTREMELY tight! Wow is all I can say about how tight the spins are while performing these manuevers. With the CG at the point that makes the plane maintain a 45 degree upline, the tumbling characteristics are still phenomenal. Using full 3D elevator and rudder with only a little aileron required, the knife edge spin was a blur. Way more impressive than the LX. Waterfalls flip the plane around its CG like a rag doll. If I do them starting into or downwind I can just bang the elevator over to full throw and watch it flip, almost in place.
5. Coupling Before ANY trimming, other than CG and one "beep" of down elevator, the plane does have some coupling that will have to be evaluated and corrected during the dynamic flight trimming process. Because of the tiny amount of down elevator that has to be added to make this plane fly level an aggrevated pull to the belly during knife edge flight is to be expected.
a. In flat turns there is a noticeable down pitching force, as well as a slight same direction roll tendency.
b. Downlines require a breath of down elevator to keep them straight down.
c. Dynamic lateral balancing has checked out as "balanced." Flying straight down at idle for a few seconds, then pulling out at a fairly aggressive rate - no aileron input - showed
neither wing dropping at all
d. On more than half throttle up-lines right rudder was required to keep the plane flying straight up. I am going to leave the thrust where it is and use a throttle-to-rudder mix when I
get to that step in the trimming sequence.
e. Flying inverted requires a just little down elevator to keep it level, confirming the CG is in a comfortable spot.
f. Snaps are a little sluggish, but that is to be expected with the more rounded leading edge which makes this plane excell in 3D flight and as a first gasser!
g. Aileron differential will be necessary, but without following the trimming sequence it is difficult to say how much will be required.
Let's get started!
1. Harriers are rock solid. I only experienced wing rock when I was turning cross wind and wasn't on the aileron correction, into or downwind required NO AILERON correction. Inverted was as locked in as upright. Steering with rudder and partial 3D elevator this new extra will be the plane that allows me to comfortably get "down on the deck" within the first few gallons of gasoline! This plane instills confidence not unlike a foamy.
2. Ailerons are about TWICE as effective as the LX. The tapered ailerons give a very desireable amount of control while in slow speed - post stall - flight. While hovering I can do an anti-torque roll with only half deflection of 3D rate ailerons.
3. High alpha knife edge is more easily controlled with the redesigned tail group. This aircraft is less scale with the horizontal stablilizer moved forward but there is intuitive and immediately inherent control of post stall flight, even while flying in the sensitive high-alpha knife edge flight envelope.
4. Waterfalls and Knife Edge Spins are EXTREMELY tight! Wow is all I can say about how tight the spins are while performing these manuevers. With the CG at the point that makes the plane maintain a 45 degree upline, the tumbling characteristics are still phenomenal. Using full 3D elevator and rudder with only a little aileron required, the knife edge spin was a blur. Way more impressive than the LX. Waterfalls flip the plane around its CG like a rag doll. If I do them starting into or downwind I can just bang the elevator over to full throw and watch it flip, almost in place.
5. Coupling Before ANY trimming, other than CG and one "beep" of down elevator, the plane does have some coupling that will have to be evaluated and corrected during the dynamic flight trimming process. Because of the tiny amount of down elevator that has to be added to make this plane fly level an aggrevated pull to the belly during knife edge flight is to be expected.
a. In flat turns there is a noticeable down pitching force, as well as a slight same direction roll tendency.
b. Downlines require a breath of down elevator to keep them straight down.
c. Dynamic lateral balancing has checked out as "balanced." Flying straight down at idle for a few seconds, then pulling out at a fairly aggressive rate - no aileron input - showed
neither wing dropping at all
d. On more than half throttle up-lines right rudder was required to keep the plane flying straight up. I am going to leave the thrust where it is and use a throttle-to-rudder mix when I
get to that step in the trimming sequence.
e. Flying inverted requires a just little down elevator to keep it level, confirming the CG is in a comfortable spot.
f. Snaps are a little sluggish, but that is to be expected with the more rounded leading edge which makes this plane excell in 3D flight and as a first gasser!
g. Aileron differential will be necessary, but without following the trimming sequence it is difficult to say how much will be required.
Let's get started!
12-12-2006, 03:42 AM
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RE: “New” 28% Wild Hare Extra 300 84”– Red Black Yellow
Well, I want to get out and do some more flying, but the rain just won't stop! This time of year is called the "Winter" here in CA, even though my wife says it is just a long fall.
Anyway, I've resorted to pictures for seeing the beauty of an Extra in the air...
Anyway, I've resorted to pictures for seeing the beauty of an Extra in the air...
01-12-2007, 09:40 PM
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RE: “New” 28% Wild Hare Extra 300 84”– Red Black Yellow
We took advantage of the fabulous weather to film some more action with the New Extra. This is fun!
01-18-2007, 05:00 PM
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RE: “New” 28% Wild Hare Extra 300 84”– Red Black Yellow
The video is done and pending approval in the video upload section here on RCU. We'll post a link when it is viewable.
Check back soon!
Check back soon!
01-19-2007, 01:30 AM
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RE: “New” 28% Wild Hare Extra 300 84”– Red Black Yellow
Go to the following link for the video:
http://www.rcuvideos.com/view_video....25385f53d7e567
Enjoy!
http://www.rcuvideos.com/view_video....25385f53d7e567
Enjoy!
01-27-2007, 03:52 PM
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RE: “New” 28% Wild Hare Extra 300 84”– Red Black Yellow
How well does the Extra pull out of a hover.....or what position is your throttle during hover?? I am trying to find a plane good plane for my new DA 50 there are just so many to choose from!!!!!
01-29-2007, 07:51 PM
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RE: “New” 28% Wild Hare Extra 300 84”– Red Black Yellow
My Extra with DA50 slimline pitts muffler and a vess 23a prop pulls out at 1/3 throttle. I added a throttle curve to make this half throttle stick to get the power linear with the stick position, but with no curve its 1/3.
With this setup my extra jumps off the ground in 5 feet if i jump to full throttle right away.
With this setup my extra jumps off the ground in 5 feet if i jump to full throttle right away.
01-30-2007, 09:48 PM
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RE: “New” 28% Wild Hare Extra 300 84”– Red Black Yellow
ORIGINAL: flatlandmike
My Extra with DA50 slimline pitts muffler and a vess 23a prop pulls out at 1/3 throttle. I added a throttle curve to make this half throttle stick to get the power linear with the stick position, but with no curve its 1/3.
With this setup my extra jumps off the ground in 5 feet if i jump to full throttle right away.
My Extra with DA50 slimline pitts muffler and a vess 23a prop pulls out at 1/3 throttle. I added a throttle curve to make this half throttle stick to get the power linear with the stick position, but with no curve its 1/3.
With this setup my extra jumps off the ground in 5 feet if i jump to full throttle right away.
That was one clip that didn't make the video...so much good footage to choose from! Yes, it has pull out power to spare! This light feeling the New WH Extra has is particularly useful when learning 3D as it is comfortably recovered from just about any botched maneuver. I am flying the Wild Hare 22x8 on my third gallon during break-in and I don't know if I need to switch props...I have a 23x8 NX that would fly nicely on it, but man I'm happy with the way if flies now!
Here's the bottom line: If you're on the fence about what 50cc plane to get, GO FOR a Wild Hare 84" Extra...you will love it! A professional builder from the Sacramento area saw my new Extra today and commented on how nicely built it was, how light it looked in the air and how it didn't wing rock during high alpha maneuvers like most other 50cc planes do. That says a LOT right there!
[8D]
01-30-2007, 11:32 PM
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RE: “New” 28% Wild Hare Extra 300 84”– Red Black Yellow
Flyintiger do the switch to the 23" prop; they add other things that help with flying like down line braking and noise reduction to name a few. I stuck with the 22/8 menz for the same reason you are and when i got a chance to fly the 23a vess i completely changed my mind. And as i understand it the nx 23/8 is very similar to the 23A i haven't flown the nx just taking another persons word that it is.
01-31-2007, 01:00 PM
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RE: “New” 28% Wild Hare Extra 300 84”– Red Black Yellow
I have an NX 23x8 that I was using on my previous Extra. I was using a 22x8 again during the re-break-in process on the DA-50 after the "updates" when the unfortunate incident happend.
Yes, I can see where the downline braking would benefit from the larger prop. You convinced me, I'll make the switch when it is time. My understanding with the Vess props is that they are NOT a constant pitch, but the pitch changes down the length of the prop to make it more efficient and quieter. Amazing how the "old guys" knew what they were doing back in WWI with props shaped just like the Vess. Technology has come full circle in the prop department I think.
Yes, I can see where the downline braking would benefit from the larger prop. You convinced me, I'll make the switch when it is time. My understanding with the Vess props is that they are NOT a constant pitch, but the pitch changes down the length of the prop to make it more efficient and quieter. Amazing how the "old guys" knew what they were doing back in WWI with props shaped just like the Vess. Technology has come full circle in the prop department I think.
01-31-2007, 01:15 PM
#92
RE: “New” 28% Wild Hare Extra 300 84”– Red Black Yellow
I have had the Wild Hare Extra 300 and without doubt it is one of the easiest to fly aircarft I have ever owned. Some adjustments I have made are as follows, strengthen the holes where the wing dowels locate otherwise vibration will cause them to go oval. I did this by filling the holes with resin and then drilling the hole out with a 10 mm drill. Strengthen the spats around the seam as they do tend to split along the seam. Where the rear tailwheel assy fits on to the fus, on mine they provided self taping screws which are no use at all, they pulled out after a couple of flights. I drilled holes and then used brass inserts bonded in with epoxy resin, when they are dry simply bolt your tail wheel through the inserts. This has proved very easy to do and very strong. The other small niggle on mine is the graphics on the wing tend to lift, so an idea would a coat of some kind of laquer over the top of them to keep them down. All in all this is very well made kit and definately needs a 50 cc in it, I have a Moki 210 in mine and whilst it is enough it really needs the extra grunt of a 50cc. Happy flying.
02-06-2007, 01:34 AM
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RE: “New” 28% Wild Hare Extra 300 84”– Red Black Yellow
It sounds like you are having a blast! Thanks for the tips. It is always good to hear what other people have had success with putting this wonderful plane together! 
03-07-2007, 01:09 PM
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RE: “New” 28% Wild Hare Extra 300 84”– Red Black Yellow
ORIGINAL: WhirlyGirl
Go to the following link for the video:
http://www.rcuvideos.com/view_video....25385f53d7e567
Enjoy!
Go to the following link for the video:
http://www.rcuvideos.com/view_video....25385f53d7e567
Enjoy!
03-07-2007, 03:42 PM
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RE: “New” 28% Wild Hare Extra 300 84”– Red Black Yellow
Yours is decidedly more roomy! Post some pictures of your runway...especially if you have a Wild Hare plane in the pic! You DEFINITELY need to host a fly in sometime this Spring!
04-23-2007, 03:07 PM
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RE: “New” 28% Wild Hare Extra 300 84”– Red Black Yellow
I don't see how you get 11 1/4" my header only measurs at best 9 1/2"
ORIGINAL: FlyinTiger
Desert Aircraft advised me not to cut the header pipe shorter than 10-1/2 inches in length for the DA-50R. I measured and cut off only 1-1/8 inches, which allowed me to have a pipe that was 11-1/4 inches long...whew!
It is worth going over the dimensions of the canister mounting piece to make any subsequent canister mounting experience MUCH quicker and easier. It took me at least an hour to get that canister mounting ring to fit properly, line up the canister so it is in the proper position to accept the header without stressing the coupler. At least it fits nicely so the glue will hold when I do the final assembly.
Desert Aircraft advised me not to cut the header pipe shorter than 10-1/2 inches in length for the DA-50R. I measured and cut off only 1-1/8 inches, which allowed me to have a pipe that was 11-1/4 inches long...whew!
It is worth going over the dimensions of the canister mounting piece to make any subsequent canister mounting experience MUCH quicker and easier. It took me at least an hour to get that canister mounting ring to fit properly, line up the canister so it is in the proper position to accept the header without stressing the coupler. At least it fits nicely so the glue will hold when I do the final assembly.
04-23-2007, 08:28 PM
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RE: “New” 28% Wild Hare Extra 300 84”– Red Black Yellow
tail your not measuring the wrong way. You have to measure the length of the pip as tho it were a string and if you straighten out the string that is the length of the pipe.
06-13-2007, 01:06 PM
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RE: “New” 28% Wild Hare Extra 300 84”– Red Black Yellow
Flyin Tiger, thanks for this thread and all the work you and your Boss put into it. I aquired the "Older?" version of the Extra from a club member last year and am now ready to duplicate your efforts. I do own a Revolution 52 from Brison N.I.B. that I planned to use unless Father's Day comes with a DA 50.hehe. My education falls a little short on the electric system fail-safes needed. I want to use Thunder Power lipos from my electric fleet so I need to research that a bit more. QUESTION: What is the difference between these planes?. Is there anything I can do to "modernize" my Extra?. I never attempt a flight with any ARF unless I take off portions of the covering and check structural joints etc. so I will be taking off a lot of this "Monocoat"?. at which time I'll give it the once over.
I would appreciate hearing your suggestions about my engine choice, etc. as this is my 1st aerobatic giant scale. I'm really jazzed to get it going..Thanks again. Mikel-T
I would appreciate hearing your suggestions about my engine choice, etc. as this is my 1st aerobatic giant scale. I'm really jazzed to get it going..Thanks again. Mikel-T