sillyness

My Feedback: (25)

So... I'm waiting for my 260 to arrive and I just read an 80 post long review thread that I never saw before. They were saying that the plane would snap on you and does poor walls. All the guys that were saying this had big twins in their planes... 3W, BME, etc... I was wondering of any of you guys with the ZDZ-80 or 3W75 are experiencing the same thing?

Also... I just noticed the location of the elevator servos... how long are your pushrods? I am wondering if I can use the H9 pro-links (5") I have laying around.

Also... what is the setup for pull-pull, as in how are the pre-cut exit holes located? Are they cut for a straight cable run (not crossed)? what size servo arm? Do you find that a single 8611 is enough power, or is more required?

rctom

Can you please point me to that post?

If it's the one I'm thinking of (can't find it now) I believe you will find that all the posts about the 260 snapping came from one individual, but I could be wrong. I don't recall talking to him, it sounds like the plane was pretty nose heavy.

Again if he's the one I'm thinking of he changed to a 3w75 and all was well and happy. This being the case he only removed less than a pound. That's not really enough to make a radical difference so I'm thinking something else must have changed.

I have not heard any other reports of the 260 snapping or any other odd behavior. I do, however, still suggest that a lighter engine will yield a better combination.

TF

sillyness

My Feedback: (25)

Of course... I love light. I am using a ZDZ-80 with a custom in-cowl cannister setup. I was hoping to be able to use 1 aileron servo per wing, but that seems not to be possible. What are the analog servo you use that require no matchbox?

Here's the thread:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_27...e%2C260/tm.htm

I can't find the one that tlaks about the walls... maybe it's the same one... I didn't read it all again.

Bryant330L

My Feedback: (126)

I use Hitec 645 analog servos in all my big planes with 2 aileron servos per wing. I have had great luck with them, and they are super simple to set up.

rctom

I just finished and flew a plane with 645s. I found them to be disappointing. The centering was dreadful and performance was lackluster. They are slow without being particularly aggressive about holding their position.

FYI I have used digital servos (good ones, not just cheapies) on 2 servo wings probably 20 times and never had the least problem. Quit worrying about matchboxes and everybody's hype when setting up Wild Hare planes' wings.

I think I've explained this before. Use a Y cable. Start with the 2 control horns exactly the same distance from the aileron surface (or as close as your adjustment will allow) and at neutral the two servo arms should be the same angle in relationship to the pushrod. Use the same hole in the servo arms. With all of this as close to identical as you can get it, the servos are about 18" apart. If there is a few thousandths of difference in travel that little mismatch won't hurt anything and there's enough flexibility in the aileron itself to render the problem irrelevant.

Where you need to be 100% matched is on rudder on a very big plane where the servos are mounted in line with ball links and metal servo arms. In this case there is no give in the linkage, a small mismatch can burn out a motor in a hurry. But there is absolutely no need for a matchbox on a plane like the Extar 260 the way it is laid out, even with 8611s or 5945 or 5955.

Think about this. First, how long are ailerons ever at full deflection. Maybe a few seconds per flight? So what if there is a 1mm difference in the travel? The aileron will twist a little for a few seconds per flight, who cares? I've never burned out a servo, drawn my battery down, damaged anything, never ever.

Don't worry, be happy.


TF

sillyness

My Feedback: (25)

Ya man... erie... ok... so I'm not Jamaican.

I did try seting up some 8611s in a wing on a Y before... they did OK... not perfect, but OK. I couldn't get the arms to line up just right on the servos. I think I'll try some Nelson arms so I can try 4 different orientations.

What size arms for the ailerons... 1" or 1 1/4"?

Bryant330L

My Feedback: (126)

Tom that surprises me on the 645s. I have flown both digital and 645 setup wings, and I could not tell much difference if any. Oh well, we all have to use what we like.

Aerohead

My Feedback: (37)

When I go back and reread all 88 posts on that thread I see one person with the snap and wall complaint, and that was in one post. Sillyness makes it sound like there were a bunch of people saying that. Come on man, if you're going to quote a post, get it more accurate, please.

airborneSGT

My Feedback: (15)

Holy cow I dont see how that pissed you off. Geesh people get upset about spilled milk over here. I will be honest, when 6 of my friends got blown up by a roadside IED and I saw the body parts of three of my friends blown to bits, not to mention the bloody boodies of those who survived that blast...then I was pissed. Talking about model (toy) planes doesnt make me upset. Maybe crashing them makes me upset...lol. Easy hopefully you dont take what I said as fighting words. I tend to be aggressive having been through some crazy fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq. Things I say might come out as a little direct. Yes everything can have improvements. I think pre painted and trimmed canopies would be nice, as would CF gear stock. But hey nothing is perfect and half the fun is making things work. I am sure with future releases of any WH plane things will get better.

Tom I know you hear what people say on here so I know things will get better. Overall I am happy with my plane and even planes that cost much more I have still had problems with. I am sure I could go buy a composite ARF tommorow and find things I dont like

I think we need to settle this over some beers or something...lol.

rctom

I think you should just forget it, I did. Everybody has the right to not like something.

TF

airborneSGT

My Feedback: (15)

Sounds good to me! My plane still will land fine with the gear on there regardless of what the full scale one has and thats all I care about Cant make everyone happy I guess.

sillyness

My Feedback: (25)

Geez guys!!!

The ONLY reason I brought up the whole deal is because there are VERY few flight reports on this plane so far... in fact those were the ONLY ones I've seen except for one more!!! I'm not trying to turn anyone off... I have this plane coming. I guess I was hoping to find cures for any problems that might exist... every plane has one or 2 bad tendancies... aerodynamics is simply a bunch of compromises... you give this and physics takes that. It looks like the problem this dude has is most likely weight and CG related, which is not surprising because I found my Extra Special to be somewhat CG sensitive as well... but once you get her dialed in she's a sweet ship!!!

CHILL FELLAS!!!

So anyway... TOM,
Do you think that the problems running the 645s were due to the fact that they are analog or that they are 645s? I am thinking of using Futaba 9206s (my first Futaba servos) for ease of matching without using the Matchbox... gives me a little more room for error and lower current drain that a couple of digitals. I read that many people are using and love this particular analog servo. I'll still use 8611s for the elevators and rudder.

rctom

That's a hard question. I use 5645s all the time and they are great except that they also do not center well, but they seem to be better than the 645s I used. 645 is just a 5645 without the digital driver amp.

So I don't really know. There was nothing really wrong with them, they were just unimpressive.

TF

sillyness

My Feedback: (25)

Cool... thanks for the input. I am looking at using JR 2721s or Futaba 9206s for the ailerons... looking around for good deals.

airborneSGT

My Feedback: (15)

I am sure you have tried E bay for servos. I got a pair of HS 5945's cheap off there. Troybuiltmodels.com has good deals on HITECS and the huge seiko servos. Servocity.com has deals...if you buy a bunch.

So far I am getting good flight times with the setup I have of 2x2800mah packs for the RX. The 2800 pack I have on the ignition is more than plenty for flying at least 10 flights. I bring my charger to the field though and try not to let my batteries drop below 7.2v. I might try a 4cell Lithium Ion pack next.

DA said my motor was just fine (Tom sounds like you know best!) and its headed back to FL as we speak. In the mean time I will work on the few small things I think need a little work. I think I am going to pin the motor box with some wooden dowels and maybe cover up some of the open spaces with something. I will also fuel proof the motor box.

I like the fact that its easy to setup some canistors if you like on this plane. Still I have yet to have a need for them so I havent bothered. With the stock DA mufflers its a little bit of a pain to get the cowl off. To make my carb adjustments easier I am going to make a flap in the cowl from which I can easily do so without an un sightly hole.

Three

My Feedback: (2)

After hearing all this stuff about heavy motors I'm having a tuff time trying to decide. It was a DA 100 but I think I'm ruling it out. I've had the 3W 75..It was a great engine but if I go with a single cylinder I'll try a ZDZ 80. I hear great things about it but the head is going to stick out the bottom, something I'd rather not have. The other choice is the BME 110. It looks like it would fit nicely inside the cowl and give me some extra power to get my #$%& out of trouble that I'm still good at getting in. I've heard very little about BME and what little I've heard wasn't good but it was only 1 person. I'd like to hear some opinions on that motor. Do any of you know of place that will make a custom muffler? If I can find someone that does then I can put the ZDZ 80 in sideways. Thanks for your input.

Phil

Bobby Folsom

I've heard that the BME 110 is very hard find. You can give Keith a call and see what he has on hand. If he has the 105, it will probably do good on the Extra 260.

Bobby

Icebird

I have a BME 110, and I can tell you that it will give you a LOT of extra power. I have mine in a 33% H9 Cap, and it's almost over powered. I am at 3500 feet, so I don't get the performance that people at sea level get, but this thing is WILD!!! It hovers a couple of clicks off idle, and I have to be careful not to overspeed the airplane, even on uplines! The motor has performed perfectly since I got it, and is getting stronger with each tank of fuel. Mine is so impressive a local ZDZ advocate decided to get one, and he's very impressed with his as well. There have been rumors about them over heating, but the 3 minute hover video pretty much put that to rest. They are NOT hard to find, in fact, the last person I talked to about one talked to Keith on the phone one day, and the next day his 110 was on the way to him. Don't believe rumors, too many people will repeat something, while actually knowing nothing other than "they heard from their second cousin's flying buddy once removed that someone once had a problem somewhere!"

Jim

rctom

Why?

The firewall is tabbed into the motorbox sides which does what pinning does but much better.

The open spaces are there to lighten it and give you access to the inside of the box, why cover them up?

Gas engines do not soak the wood with oil and alcohol, why fuel proof something that will never see fuel?

If you want to do something to make it stronger without compromising anything or adding much weight, do this;

Lay the fuse on its side with the nose down so it's on a slight downward angle. Dribble some thin CA into the intersection of the firewall and motorbox side, until the wood will not absorb any more. This will fill in any areas that might have not been glued (this problem came up with early edges, can't hurt to do this here also). Then epoxy a piece of 1/2" balsa into the corner intersection, be sparing on the epoxy caus that adds weight fast. Let the glue dry.

Turn the fuse over and do the other side. When the glue is all cured that firewall isn't coming out without a chain saw.

TF

sillyness

My Feedback: (25)

Well Tom,

After talking to the right people (I think) I'm going to stick with a pair of digitals for the ailerons. The guys said that the plane wouldn't stop its snaps right away with the analogs... too much give. I already have an extra 8611, so it looks like I'll just get one more to make her complete. I have 8411s for the elevators... I'm thinking of selling those and getting 8611s for the nicer gear train... haven't decided. So... al said I'll have 1820 oz-in of torque in this plane... the servos alone could make it fly!!! Oh well... better too much than not enough.

Will the ZDZ-80 fit in the cowl sideways? I assume not... it's pretty tall.

airborneSGT

My Feedback: (15)

I was just considering doing that. Just throwing out ideas. I totally understand the trying to stay light. Good point! I will just use a little CA and the method you described. Tony made a standoff out of sandwiched light ply so I know the engine is not comming off!

So far once I had two engine bolts come loose. A little thread lock and some tightening solved that!

The standoff length is about 3/4" +/- a hair. Now thats with using a CF spinner that has a thing backplate. You might need more or less depending on the spinner you use. I know someone asked me that a while back.

I am in the midst of building my first kit, its a little cap 232 I got for $50. I figured I could teach myself how to build and cover cheap this way. I am finding out why Laser cut kits are so much nicer.

Still trying to figure out what graphics to put on it.

I think the ZDZ 80 would be an awesome combo, so long as you also used some Lithiums and some other stuff to keep it light. Even with my DA running hot (thanks to me being a putts on the oil ratio) I was still flying at only a quarter to half a throttle. Yes I can only imagine what it would be like with a BME 110. Perhaps some of the big singles from say First Place Engines, or Taurus would also be an interesting setup. My FPE 3.2 has some serious power. Enough to fly the hoss of an airplane called the GP Christen eagle with no problems. The FPE 111cc twin is probably too heavy for this plane but would be fine I think for the 35% or so plane.

Tom has me sold on this one, so I think the hangar will soon be needing the 35% Extra or maybe the larger one comming out. Of course I am also starting my training for my real pilots license so that might have to take the backburner for a little while.

Still having a bunch of planes the 260 is easily my favorite and best flying. So I think a big Extra 260, and a big 300 that flew just as well would keep me happy!

Oh yeah, kudos on the covering of the bottom of the wings. A bunch of guys at my field all commented that they had to add a similar scheme to their H9's! For me although the blue looks cool, the red makes it a lot easier to see and keep track of.

When the DA gets back and mounted I will give you all an AUW dry and wet.
I will tell you all again though, even with the DA 100 (and my setup) this thing flys light! Seriously easy to fly on low rates also. Landings are also the same - easy as can be. Just stick the servos in the tail like the manual states and move your battery packs to the rear and wami! no balance issues.

Three

My Feedback: (2)

According to RC Showcase...From center of prop shaft to end of cap is 6.33. The engine will be offset to the right(when looking at the front of the plane). At worst I'll need a cutout for the cap.

airborneSGT

My Feedback: (15)

With the DA 100 only one side of the cowl really needed to be cut for the spark plug cap. However, I had both sides cut just to be safe.

F1race79

My Feedback: (6)

I would like to see a BME 110 in the 260, I have it in Tom's 35% Extra and can you say MO POWER!
This engine is awesome...................
It will drag the 35% vertical forever and ever more, running a 28 X 10 NX prop on it. That says it all.

Good luck chosing an engine.

rctom

I spoke with a guy in Florida whou has a 260 with a 110. He bought the engine from me so Iasked him to stay in touch and let me know how it flies.

Predictably it has way too much power and weighs about 22 lbs or maybe a little less. But I've learned that there's a limit to how much power can be used. Once you reach a point, any excess power is simply unusable. I don't think there's an appreciable difference between the 110 and something like a 3w 75 ON THIS PLANE except for possibly vertical speed. There is so much excess that neither one can be used full throttle most of the time.

The 260/110 conbination is better in one spot, that's at high altitudes. I would venture to say that it's probably the best power<>weight ratio out there and therefore the best performing when flying at 6000+ feet altitude.

TF