phippsj

My Feedback: (15)

I like to keep my rabbit safe and warm in my house, but it smells of gas fumes more than I can stand. There are no leaks from the fuel tank or lines or DA-50. I'm using a slotted screw cap type fueler fitting and a Dubro tank. There is an open vent line, but I started putting a rubber plug over the end of it when not flying. I even closed the choke in effort to reduce the amount of raw fuel fumes. It's not enough to smell up the whole house or become a fire hazard, but it's noticable when in the same room.

Anyone have some helpful hints? I don't want to hang it up in the garage with a cover over it, but that's the only thing left to do.

Jim in Dallas

airborneSGT

My Feedback: (15)

With gas that will probably always be the case to some extent. You can add "scents" to your fuel that wont harm it at all. This was suggested to me by Gene from TBM. I lived with my planes in the Army in my shoebox barracks room and this was the case.

Currently I also share space with the planes but to solve the problem I am building a room in the garage that has AC and is closed off from the rest of the garage. Whats the use of working in construction being a contractor apprentice if I dont build something?

I feel you on the garage issue. Here in south FL it gets very hot in the summers. Hot to the point it could do some damage to planes over time.

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

Jim in Dallas,

I have the same problem with 6 gassers that I store in a spare bedroom ..... I solved the problem by closing the door.

Seriously, there are several solutions to the problem. First either avgas or racing gasoline have lower odor than regular car gasoline. You might try these. Downside, many of our gas engines loose performance or can be damaged by using these fuels. The result of higher octane or lead content. A higher octane fuel can actually decrease performance in our small bore engines. Second, many people have used Coleman fuel (white gasoline) in their gassers. This can work very well with no performance loss and has a low odor. You might want to check these alternatives out but as a disclaimer, check with the motor mfgr. before using them.

Roger S.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

If your plane resides ANYWHERE that a spark could erupt. DO NOT use Coleman fuel and leave ANY residue in the fuel tank. That stuff is worse than plastic explosives when it goes up and takes almost nothing to set it off. Better to flush out the fuel system with alcohol a couple of times, plug the vent, and plastic wrap the carb and exhaust.

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

Why? What makes it more volatile than gasoline???

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

I don't have any clue as to why the volatility apears higher than gas. Possibly the refinement prosess, but I do know the stuff goes up a heck of a lot quicker. My ark side used to like to make things go boom a long time ago and the Coleman fuel was much better for the job.

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

Silversurfer,

Wow, I never considered Coleman fuel especially dangerous. So, I checked the MSDS sheets .......and here is the results. Coleman fuel is just Naptha, a very common solvent. It was also used for years (still is I guess) as lighter fluid. It has a flash point of 122F / 171C, and auto ignites at 465F / 240C. Fairly high temperatures. I thought I would look up Methanol, that is the main combustible in glo fuel and here is its specs ...... flash point 54F / 12C and it auto ignites at 851F / 455C. Hmmmmm ...... methanol flashes at a much lower temperature than Naptha! So how about gasoline ...... here things get interesting. Where Naptha and Methanol are pure solvents, gasoline is a compound of 12 or many more solvents and it varies considerably between geographic area and time of year (temperature) where it is being consumed. As such the specs vary quite a bit but these are fairly common ...... flash point -45 to -49F / -43 to -45C and it auto ignites at 530F / 280C. Racing gasoline has similar specs.

What can be concluded from all of this? Well, it looks like gasoline is much more dangerous than Naptha when an ignition source is considered. Gasoline ignites at almost 170 degrees F lower temperature than Naptha. Even Methanol considered to be quite safe by most has a lower flashpoint than Naptha. No, I'm not taking into account fuel / air mixtures and their effect on combustion in open spaces, etc.

OK, how are these things as fuels. Well, Naptha has a low octane and has never been considered a good fuel for our model engines. But, it has been used by many and has a low odor .... if a particular motor will run ok on the stuff it can be a practical alternative fuel. Bought as a solvent, it is readily available and fairly cheap.

Methanol is a great fuel and can be used in our gassers. But ..... it takes a much richer mixture (more fuel / larger fuel tank). Some of our caruretors won't adjust enough to work with the stuff and worst of all, it is corrosive for our aluminum and zinc alloy carburetor bodies. It does have a very low odor so is an alternative fuel.

Racing and Avgas both contain lead and have high octane. The lead can cause carbon buildup in our motors. The higher octane can also cause loss of performance in our small bore, low compression motors (depends on the particular motor). But once again, these have considerable less odor than regular car gas and are alternative fuels. I always had racing gas on hand and have used quite a bit of this in model motors with no ill effects. Petroleum based oils can cause more carbon buildup than this fuel. Racing gas in combination with synthetic oils produces acceptable carbon buildup..... at least for me. You will see shorter sparkplug life

Today, I just use regular pump gas and put up with the odor. Works great and is available anywhere. Like I said in the first post, I just store the planes where I can't smell them.

Roger S.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Informative. Thank you. I'd still be careful, tho.

BTW, I agree with you about the smell of our current auto fuel and I also found that the type of oil used in the mix has a profound effect on the odor. You won't believe how much more agreeable the odor is if you're using aRedline oil as opposed to Amsoil. I'm not the only one to have noted this sisnce it was brought to my attention by another. I'm not saying it makes it better, just more agreeable. If I stored by planes inside my home I'd cork everything off regardless of my fuel selection. My wife would make life miserable if I did not!

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

That's kinda what I was thinking.

Regular pump gas has a very strong odor and is simply not an option for me, since I store my models in the house. And, no matter how securely you cap off vents, fill lines, etc., your house WILL eventually smell like the utility room; or wherever you keep your lawnmower, weed-eater, etc. BTDT with a gas helicopter.

I'm interested in some documentation regarding the corrosive factor of this lantern fuel on aluminum/whatever carburetors. Several pals have been using it extensively in gas helis and haven't said anything about this.

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

Steve,

Naptha, lantern fuel, lighter fluid, etc ..... whatever you call it is far less corrosive than regular gasoline. It also has less solvency than gasoline. Gasoline contains many very aggresive solvents that can be very hard on some types of plastics and rubber compounds. Modern carburetors are very resistant to these though. Naptha doesn't have any of the hydroscopic properties that Methanol has so it is very friendly to aluminum. Biggest problem .... the low octane and with the low flashpoint it might make a motor harder to start than with regular gasoline. With the right setup combined with the right motor, naptha could be a perfectly acceptable fuel. Sorry, I can't offer more than this though.

Silversurfer, I agree completley with you regarding draining every bit of fuel out of the airplane before taking it inside. Even though every drop is gone, the smell remains for some time. Thanks for the tips on the oil. I will have to go do some sniff testing!!! Oh yes, not married here so I only have to satisfy myself and the pets and they don't seem to mind much.

Roger S.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

My dogs always do some sneezing when they ride in the back of my pick up/shell combo. 'Bout the only things I carry in there are planes and their fuel cans.

rctom

I just wanted to clear up an inaccuracy here. Higher octane gas can cause loss of performance because it burns more slowly and has the effect of retartding the ignition timing. This can easily be compensated for by simply advancing the spark timing a few degrees.

Also, I don't think lead causes carbon buildup, but it does cause deposits of some sort and your engine will last longer on umleaded fuel.

TF

btoby

dissagree with that statement in regards to turning up timing.
all that will do is get you some spark knock and tear up your motors. for high octane fuel to help, you need higher compression.otherwise you will only ignite the fuel faster, but not in the right part of the stroke

also lead was added as a top end lube for valve guides of past. new guides were developed to last longer in the absence of lead additives

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Regarding lead. I had to clean the lead from a pair of fouled plugs two days ago. Heavy lead build up in 2-1/2 hours of running. Don't use the 100LL avaition stuff unless there's nothing else that would work. If you do use the stuff, get one of those nifty electric plug cleaning gizmos sold at better auto parts stores.

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

Tetra Ethyl Lead was added to motor fuels starting in the early 1920's as a knock inhibitor (octane booster if you prefer). A side benefit was upper cylinder, valve guide and valve seat lubrication. The downside of this stuff was its poison nature, plug fouling, carbon (lead deposit) buildup, other motor deposits, plus probably dozens of other problems too numerous to mention here. No over the road fuel containing lead has been available in the USA for many years now.

Don't want to get into a big long discussion on fuels here as the original post was asking about odor. There are low odor alternatives to regular gasoline if the user wants to educate himself about their unique problems. I'll leave it at that.

Roger S.