I bought a Spektrum DX7 the other day and I was curios as to what your setups are for you planes I'm thinking about using the TOC 53 as my motor but electronics is what I need info on. I think I need new servos the ones I have are old. But should I use a power expander. What kind of regulator should I use if using lithiums. What kind of batteries should I use. ECT. Please help me.

I dont think a Power Expander is necissary, I am flying 3 different WH 50cc birds and not a one has a PE. I use a 2 or 4-cell Lithium Ion pack and a Smart-fly regulator with a heavy duty switch.
Have more than a 100 flights on this type setup and never an issue...

From what I have heard the spectrum RX draws more power than a normal fm rx. If you are going to use all top of the line digital servos as well like 8711's, 5955's, or 9156's? I would recommend using a 4 cell lion like a Fromeco 5200 with heavier guage wiring and fromeco reg with upgraded wiring as well, and HD switch. This setup should be more than enough in high draw applications.

Until you start setting up planes that require multiple servos on every surface there is no need to even consider a power expander. Even most of the 35% plane do not require their use.

As in anything else, higher quality and performance comes at a higher price. Often the increase in performance also comes with an increased demand for electrical current. The 50cc Sukhoi and your Spektrum radio would be well served with a single 5,200 mAh li-on and regulator from Fromeco or Troy Built. For all intents and purposes they are the same product. I would also suggest a 2,600 mAh li-on but recent readings about low voltage radio shut downs and/or resets makes me leery of doing so.

I am in the same situation. I have the WH Sukhoi on order. I just bought a DX7 to go into it and I am using 5955tg servos 1 per aileron, 1 per elevator half and 1 per rudder. I am also worried about the high power draw that I have heard about. I am thinking of fromeco electronics and batteries and using the deans connectors. My biggest question is using the deans connectors, you still have a standard servo connection between the batteries and rx right? Smart fly is supposed to be working on a 50cc size power expander..... Needed? Not needed? I lost an H9 Sukhoi due to to many flights on a weak battery.... Thought it had more power than it actually did. I had flown it 6 times the day of the crash, asked a better pilot that flys more aggressively than I do and think we hit a low voltage dropout/overheated regulator. Don't wanna go that route again. Suggestions welcome.

I used a 4 cell Li-Ion pack I ordered from http://www.superbatterypacks.com/ Bern made me one up with 16ga leads and Deans connectors. I then used Smart-Fly SuperSwitch http://www.smart-fly.com/Products/Switch/switch.htm through a Smart-fly HD regulator http://www.smart-fly.com/Products/Regulator/pic2.htm that has deans in and twin outlets.
Have never had a problem ever...

You could if you wanted to spend the money for insurance run 2-2cell Li-Ion packs through a dual regulator or to a Power Expander, it will work no problems at all, but you do add probably $300 or so to your electronics bill. But if it makes you sleep better then I say go for it!

I am reluctant to tell people what the should or should not do, I prefer to tell them what I do that works. They can copy me or not as they see fit.

For that size plane I just finished one, I have a single 2400mah Li-ion pack in it with a MPI miracle switch with integrated regulator. This is the setup that fails to the on position. No power box is needed at this size. For servos I'm trying out Hitec 985s, I was looking for a less expensive alternative that still has decent speed and centering. I have not flown this setup yet, so wait for the news reports. But I have tested all these components in other planes and they seem to work well.

If you feel you need a 4 cell lithium pack, I'd rather see two 2 cell packs and 2 regulators. I like the mpi switches and the MPI regulators, they are not expensive and I've never had one fail even in a 40% plane. This setup then gives you some redundancy for the regulators annd switches. I have never had this setup bring down a plane either.


I hope to fly this one, a 50cc Sukhoi with the TOC-53 engine, very soon, like maybe tomorrow.

TF

As an aside, unless one anticipates some extremely high amperage draws, which is quite unlikely, there's no need for the Deans connectors on a 50cc plane. It just isn't needed at all. If you manage to stall a 5955, which would be the only situation where it would draw high current levels, you would have done something extremely wrong. We don't even come close to using all the torque available from most of the digital servos used.

My only concerns are with the radio. More specifically the new 2.4 systems that seem to have a higher voltage cutoff from what has been before. A regulated 7 plus volt battery pack with 1,800 or more milliamps is plenty for the flight surfaces. Even though batteries are larger than they used to be there's still a need for checking them, and no excuse for failing to do so.

Tom I'm almost there in finishing up the sukhoi but I wanted to ask were did you put your tank? (before or after the wing tube). Right know mine is behind the tube.I not sure how much of a CG change it will make since it sits so close to the tube.
Im not posting to much about it right know. I would rather finish it up and start shooting some good Imac and 3D Vids to throw online.

I have a H9 33% Cap with digitals all the way through, mostly Hitec 5925's, and had problems with it dropping the RX buss voltage below 3.7 volts and causing the RX to go into throttle failsafe.
I was running 2 NiMH packs, 2 switches, battery backer, optical isolator... Drove me NUTS, finally I pulled all the junk out, went with 2 Li-Ion packs and adjustable regulators and VOILA no more problems, turns out it was 3 things, battery packs just couldnt flow the juice under hard loads, the battery backer consumed .9 volts...
I ended up using a Power Expander, but it is not really needed, but nice insurance.

I think that the Li-Ion work great and I agree totally with Tom on this one.
My set up on my 35% Panzl.
2 TBM Li-Ion 2600mah batteries
2 JR Heavy Duty switches
2 MPI 6V regulators
This plane has 8 JR 8611A's on the control surfaces and 1 Hitec 5645 on the throttle.
I can fly 5 fights without recharging. I could probably make 6 or 7 flights but after the 5th flight the batteries read in the range of 7.5V under a 1 amp load.

Just remember that your trusty voltmeter that you typically use on smaller planes for Ni-Cd's and Ni-Mh's will not give you the correct reading. It does not inject enough load in to the circuit to give you a correct evaluation of your battery voltage.

The setup that I will be using on my Sukhoi is the same as the one above that I use in my Panzl. Two batteries, two switches, two regulators. The only difference will be instead of 8 8611A's there will only be 5 on this plane.

Always check you batteries with a voltmeter that can load the circuit before every flight. It will save your plane.

just to add to the discussion I would also consider the fact that if you move into larger airframes, having the PE will be nice since you wont have to buy it again

On my WH 28% Extra I have it decked out in the baddest hardware I could afford, I did this with the intention of getting a 40% sometime down the line. When I do move up I will have most the hardware already so the transition wont be as hard on the wallet

just a thought

I've been in touch with Smart FLy and I think I'm going to go with there smart reg or something like that. So I think I'm going with that. I just need to decide on battery packs and switches and that should be almost it. I'm talking with Hitec to get my servos checked up with. And then I need a rudder servo. So I think I'm in good shape.

The 5955 Hitec is massive overkill for the entire plane. As is an 8611. When installed correctly it's enough to drive all the surfaces on a 35% plane with one per surface. As an example, when correctly installed, a single digital metal geared mini servo from a name manufacturer (having only 50 oz.in of torque at 4.8v) on each surface easily provides all the requirements for a 44 pound uav that flys for 15 hours at a time. Meaning that on our models we really do go to extremes in most cases.

Well I kind of like having a little overkill. In my foamie I have a park 400 and is recommended for a 300. It's nice to have a little something extra.

Silver, I know I am going a little overboard with the 5955s but they are actually for the 102" sukhoi when I can arrange to buy one. I am planning on buying bigger for that purpose.

I agree in buying over what you need for purpose of moving up, unless you like the smaller bird so much that you keep it AND get the bigger one hehehehe.
Now with the 5955's down around 89.00 a piece that is not a large margin over say the 5945/5985's so its worth buying the stronger better servo's. However I have flown the 28% without any problems on the 5625's (exception of Rudder 5955), with them costing as low as $45 give or take then there is a decent price difference if you keep the smaller bird AND get the larger.
Heck I have 5925's on my H9 33% Cap tail, never had an issue with strength, and the speed is almost too much if there is such a thing LoL.

Thanks Greg for the heads up!!!

CF tube would be better viewed as gain in strength... Its weigh savings sure will be a few ounces but on a bird this size its really not an issue. Its always nice to have the extra strength, so order one while your placing your order I say.

Bravo Mike - looking forward to seeing your vids of you wringing out the Sukhoi!!

Fromeco 3 output Ion Cube Li Ion Charger
Ion cube power plug
FROMECO ION CUBE BRAIN(PROGRAMMER DIGITAL READOUT)

1 Wolverine Aluminum Wolverine switch, dual 15amp continuous current capability
2 TBM Li Ion 2-cell battery pack 2600 mAh 7.4 V. Two leads, two connectors, JR and Deans
1 TBM Li Ion 2-cell battery pack 2600 mAh 7.4 V. Std Leads for Ignition
Smart Fly Ignition Regulator 5.2v, JR connectors
Fromeco Regulator

Ok guys, I have fretted about it long enough. How does the above sound for powering the 50cc Sukhoi? Looking at the fromeco site, It looks like the wolverine will be a battery matcher as well as only needing one regulator before going into the receiver... I am open to suggestions.... please let me know what you think..

PS the edit is for the fact I left off an ignition switch.... Think I will go for the badger for that peice...

Everything that's been noted so far in this thread will work out just fine. I would like to say that most peole will make their planes more complicated, heavy, and expensive to set up and fly than they need to be. The new designs from Wild Hare were and are intended to be as simple as possible to set up, and to make the installation process for the user as pain free as possible. Most of the Wild Hare planes are designed to balance on the money with the tanks forward of the wing tube. Simply moving the batteries around a little sets the C/G most of the time for any type of flying.

That said, what you guys want to do will work in almost every application. If you meet the minimum servo requirements for the plane, and power those components with a 6 volt 1,800 mAh battery of any type, you'll be good to go. As in anything else you should monitor your batteries and not simply trust they are large enough to fly as many times as you want without checking. After the minimums are met, everything above and beyond is all cake and just makes for a more enjoyable flying experience and sets the stage for bigger and better things later.

My opinion: Keep it Simple for a 50CC

this works like a champ. batts are 2100 nickel low impedence. This setup is on my 1/3 scale suky. 7 5955TG servos, 5625 throttle, and HS81 choke. works great. This setup is good for 8-10 amp continuous, 15-20 burst. Overkill for a 30% but the redundancy is very nice in case you lose a battery or switch. The AR7000 doesn't pull any more power than anything else, but it is sensitive to voltage drops below 4v. Use 6-7 volt systesm, not 4.8v. The only reason I used the miracle regulators was for the failsafe. The Deans are not necessary, but I like em and they are easy to unplug, and the supply to the regulator has big wires to take advantage of full battery power.

Guys. Most of the problems I have seen thus far on nickels is using a hi impedence pack that cannot deliver, or using a regulator that gets hot and loses current. These simple little miracle switches are cheap and reliable, set to 6v. THe switch and charge port are built in. Im not trying to sell anyone, but they are good product and simple. The batteries will draw down close enough not to matter. I wish MPI had an equivalent unregulated failsafe switch based on this design. that would be the heat.

When I get my suky and I get home from this sandbox tour, I will install A123's with HD switches though and NO regulators. As simple as it gets. Please consider that option and you will never have a supply problem again. I set this up originally for standard LIons, but then A123's came out, so i will just use a standard failsafe switch from now on such as the Badger/Wolverine from Fromeco. Or a standard HD switch from Smartfly or JR. For those who dont know A123's are 3.3 volt packs, so a 2S is 6.6 volts nominal and can hold a 60C load. They wont heat, and they can be recharged at 4C, so a 2300 pack can be charged fully in 15 mins. IE...while refueling....

On the AR7000/DX stuff go to the massive thread for Spektrum DX7 and read about it if you want to know about it and about power in general. That thread has saved alot of people.

my 2C worth.

g